U.S. Antitrust Legislation Would Require Users to Be Able to Delete All Pre-Installed Apple Apps [Updated]

[Nuno Lopes]

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[Nuno Lopes]

What does what I quoted https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...lled-apple-apps-updated.2301181/post-30030054 have to do with the thread topic again? I guess when one doesn't have a good argument the ship trys to be steered in alternate longer directions?

So you you sherry pick a quote from my text, take it out of context and counter argue a conflation that never happened.

Good to to you but that is not a nice way to enter a conversation.

This is how it all started.

Three reasons:

1. Lobbyists from the likes of Epic and Pandora who want to leverage what Apple has built without paying for it.
2. Bipartisan hatred for big tech. This itself has several causes, including disdain for capitalism and profits, fear that their side is being censored, and fear that the other side isn't being censored.
3. Their constituents are constantly writing and calling to complain that their phones and computers are too easy to use, and that Apple and Google are providing too many useful services.
4. Politicians are clueless and corrupt idiots who constantly posture for soundbites and acting tough against all boogiemen, foreign or domestic.

Cheers..

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

So it’s better to have multiple browsers with multiple vulnerabilities, waiting for the devs to fix the vulnerabilities? Don’t think that’s a better system at all.

Yes, it's absolutely a better system. It means that any vulnerability found only impacts ~50% of general iOS users instead of all of them, since they won't all be using the same browser engine. And it means that for security minded people who pay attention to this kind of thing, they'll be able to switch browsers for a few months to avoid the issue.

 

[Project Alice]

People are missing the point with this. Just because users will be able to delete apps doesn't mean they will or have to.

What I see this bill being very good is more for Android users, specifically Samsung phones. I was an Android user for years. iOS 12 was the first version of iOS I used since iOS 4 on my old iPod Touch back in the day.
I mainly used HTC phones, up until all their good people jumped ship to google and the pixel. I also had a couple Galaxy flagship phones, and the majority of my friends did. Samsung is terrible for preinstalled, non-removable bloatware. Yes, Android phones are usually easily flashable to other Android distros, rootable to remove said bloatware, but it is a long time coming for non-techy people to get rid of Samsung's BS. Apple phones don't have that problem.

*I did not read the bill, just skimmed the OP on this post. It seems like there isn't a problem with this bill to me.

 

[I7guy]

Yes, it's absolutely a better system. It means that any vulnerability found only impacts ~50% of general iOS users instead of all of them, since they won't all be using the same browser engine. And it means that for security minded people who pay attention to this kind of thing, they'll be able to switch browsers for a few months to avoid the issue.

The flip side is when the vulnerability gets fixed it gets fixed for 100% of iOS users. It seems 6 of one half a dozen of the other.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

So it’s better to have multiple browsers …?

Of course it’s is better for the consumer. We have been in that place before in the industry … it started well … than it stink … badly.

The side effects of multiple choice within an ecosystem always prevailed a securitarian/totalitarian which is what Apple is trying to implement as far as I understand the marketing around some decisions. These kinds of systems, provided a significant size, have always turned badly for people if not for the system controllers … always. Inspite of all good intentions.

All these systems have given up to the temptation of persuing non sympathetic entities to the system, closing even tighter control gaps. There is always a feeling of higher moral ground sustaining these systems. It happened time and time and time again.

Has for choice outside the ecosystem… there is always choice. Choice is a fact of life. The issue not choice but what choice and what is the cost of change.

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

The flip side is when the vulnerability gets fixed it gets fixed for 100% of iOS users. It seems 6 of one half a dozen of the other.

It actually doesn't. Since WebKit is part of the OS, it means that the update takes several weeks to hit even 50% of users. How many people on these forums are like myself, where they wait a few weeks to update iOS versions because of how common it is for reports to come out after a few days of stuff that the update broke?*

If these updates came via the App Store, they'd be seamlessly rolled out to everyone within a week. There's no need to confirm you want to update - the updates just automatically happen in the background, with minimal disruption to your using your phone.

*Apple's quality control is absolutely horrid. Maybe it was cutting edge 20 years ago, but modern software companies have comprehensive automated test suites that ensure there's no regressions, whereas Apple's quality standards seem to be rivaling those of EA... they ship software well before its ready and let other people find the bugs for them (but then you report the bugs and Apple just ignores them, so even that's not working...)

I think Microsoft actually ships updates with fewer issues than Apple does at this point. Microsoft has made major efforts to get the best developers by making Linux, GitHub, and LinkedIn central parts of the company. Apple's acquisitions, on the other hand, have been much more questionable. What did Beats do for Apple? It was a random expensive purchase... it wasn't a particularly valuable company, and Apple didn't make any effort to make themselves a welcoming home for it.

 

[hypertoast]

Hang out here much? Having to sift through hundreds of apps just to start using your phone would certainly inconvenience everyone and evoke much vitriol on this forum. (Why can't I just start using my phone?)

So, apple installs 100s of apps on any IOS device at startup?

 

[hypertoast]

But there's already a choice... there's an entire freakin' app store with a million apps!

If you don't like Apple's Notes app... you can choose to download Evernote or OneNote.

If you don't like Apple's Podcast app... you can choose to download Overcast or PocketCasts.

If you don't like Apple's Calendar app... you can choose to download Fantastical or Outlook.

If you don't like Apple Maps... you can choose to download Google Maps or Waze.

But I don't see why the Government should force Apple to provide a popup to choose all these apps during setup.

So, if a user does not like Apple apps, its OK for the user to go in and delete all installed apps and wait for them to be installed.

But, the initial exercise to cherrypick apps to be the default ones or new ones (during startup) is a big problem.

 

[hypertoast]

Apple has worked consistently to make setting up an iPhone faster and easier. This should move in the exact opposite way. For this to have a meaningful impact, not just be ”a statement” every time a user get a new phone (even a replacement for broken phone), he or she would be required to chose every app on the system from a randomized list. That would take a great deal of time. Who do you think this benefits? If every app had to show the app’s name and the creator company, as well as the cost and if there were requirements for in-app purchases) and if there are advertisements, do you think that most iOS users would just pick the Apple versions?

Who does all this extra time benefit?

Making it faster - Sure by installing default apps.

and then the user has to go to the app store and redownload ones which they want... and thats not a time spender? Who is to say every developers options need to be provided for eg a notes app. Just provide some random one, if user likes it, they install it. Not everything apple provides is golden. Some users have OCD, where they prefer to start a phone with default IOS apps, others have OCD and it affects/ bothers them that they need to remove apple apps and break the originality of the phone if they choose not to use Apples app.

For everyone its a choice. So, providing it is necessary. Whether users choose to exercise, its an individuals choice.

 

[mateytate]

So when I go to buy a car, say it's a Honda. Should I be able to at time of purchase get completely different interior seats from another company? Say the engine, should that be swappable just because a bureaucrat says it should be up to the customer to pick each and every thing available, and those other options just have to work as well? So that all companies can work with all companies? Da HECK!?

Maybe, yes. If there was essentially only 2 car manufacturers to choose from in the world.

 

[jimothyGator]

I don’t understand in what measure is the gov dictating what consumers (you) can and what cannot install on their (your) phones. It’s precisely the contrary. Its is trying to make sure that no organization too big for that can manipulate you by dictating what you an install or not, including the government itself

Thank goodness the largest, most powerful government in history is protecting me from organizations big enough to manipulate me.

 

[I7guy]

Its not Samsung CEO that using Privacy as one of the fundamentals of his marketing plot. Putting this aside you seam to be arguing that some bad tech justifies and vindicates another bad tech? That is a race to the bottom which I will not waste time arguing about.

[..]

seem to be conflating data privacy with life privacy and dinging or criticizing Apple because tech can be used for nefarious purposes. It’s not a logical argument and it is what it is. Time will tell if your pseudo-criticism is full of hot air.

 

[mejsric]

But there's already a choice... there's an entire freakin' app store with a million apps!

If you don't like Apple's Notes app... you can choose to download Evernote or OneNote.

If you don't like Apple's Podcast app... you can choose to download Overcast or PocketCasts.

If you don't like Apple's Calendar app... you can choose to download Fantastical or Outlook.

If you don't like Apple Maps... you can choose to download Google Maps or Waze.

But I don't see why the Government should force Apple to provide a popup to choose all these apps during setup.

you buy Apple’s phone, you should expect Apple apps on it. Apple is just being generous that you can uninstall their apps.