U.S. Justice Department Accused of Using Fake Cell Towers on Planes to Gather Data From Phones

[BvizioN]

If you're not doing anything wrong then I suppose you don't mind letting police into your home and letting them search your phone, email and hard drives. Shouldn't be a problem. You're not doing anything wrong, you don't have anything to hide.

Not the right analogy!!

If police where to come to my home to look at my mobile pics and stuff, then better be a good reason for it. Looking for terrorist activity which ultimately result on saving people's life, is good enough reason for me.

And let's be honest, I don't think they are going to be quite interested on my stuff, unless it have something to do with what they are after.

 

[FieldingMellish]

We’re already controlled by monitoring devices once we signed onto the internet and engage in mass communication, creating data that gets sliced and diced.

 

[chr1s60]

Did you even read the article?

"The technology is aimed at locating cellphones linked to individuals under investigation by the government, including fugitives and drug dealers, but it collects information on cellphones belonging to people who aren't criminal suspects, these people said. They said the device determines which phones belong to suspects and "lets go" of the non-suspect phones."

Policeman: "Oh, I'm sorry I kicked in your door. I wasn't sure which door belonged to the suspected bad guy, so I had to kick in everyone in the building's door. Carry on. BTW: Nice boxer shorts."

Yes because having your front door kicked in and having your phone picked up by a tower are pretty much the same thing. People act as though the government truly wastes their resources to track every move that Joe Blow from small town USA is doing. In all honesty, they likely don't care. If their tracking was so great we wouldn't see quite the number of criminals and terrorists on the run, now would we? This is a mere tool to be used to assist an investigation. Thinking the government cares about that text you sent saying that you're going to Applebee's for dinner tomorrow is a stretch. Many say that fear drives us to allowing this, well I say the opposite, the ones that fear this are the ones thinking they're constantly being spied on as if they're of some great importance in some sort of master scheme by the government. Too many people need to stop watching spy movies.

 

[sbailey4]

You could make the same argument about the cops catching ALL your data.

No where does it say they are "catching ALL your data" just location of the device

You could even make the same argument about the cops putting a gps on every car in America. If they're out in public, then they're broadcasting their position to the world anyway, right?

They are not installing GPS on your car, they are looking at cell phone location. Not relevant to this conversation.

Well guess what, the cops need a warrant to GPS your car. And they should.

Again this is not at all relevant to getting cell phone location data.

Put another way, why can't a private individual legally spoof a cell tower? So why would you think the cops should be able to? Rhetorical questions.

4th amendment, look it up before it disappears because of people like you.[/QUOTE]
Same reason private individuals don't investigate crimes. "Cops" as you put it, are responsible for public safety and investigating criminal /terrorist behavior. That's their job and what they are supposed to do. Private individuals don't have this responsibility. No different than your accounting dept at you job has all the payroll info and company financial information but the rest of the employees are not privy to that info. Not their job.

 

[bwillwall]

If you're not doing anything wrong then I suppose you don't mind letting police into your home and letting them search your phone, email and hard drives. Shouldn't be a problem. You're not doing anything wrong, you don't have anything to hide.

I'm so tired of hearing people say this... This should give some insight into how I feel about this.

http://youtu.be/pcSlowAhvUk

 

[derek4484]

our enemies don't have borders anymore. if it means capturing the next terrorist and their cell, go for it. I'm not doing anything wrong, so i'm not worried

Lemmings like you make me puke. This is the United States of America. We have something here called the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Go live in Cuba or Venezuela if you dont like liberty.

I'm all for stopping bad guys, but if the government expects people to abide by the law, then the government must abide by the law as well. That means following the Constitution. Let the government investigate, gather evidence, present probable cause to an impartial magistrate and get a search warrant that specifies what they are looking for. Otherwise you dont have a Constitutional Republic, you end up with a dictatorship or a tyrannical government. This mass surveillance is illegal and unethical.

 

[rdlink]

Yes because having your front door kicked in and having your phone picked up by a tower are pretty much the same thing. People act as though the government truly wastes their resources to track every move that Joe Blow from small town USA is doing. In all honesty, they likely don't care. If their tracking was so great we wouldn't see quite the number of criminals and terrorists on the run, now would we? This is a mere tool to be used to assist an investigation. Thinking the government cares about that text you sent saying that you're going to Applebee's for dinner tomorrow is a stretch. Many say that fear drives us to allowing this, well I say the opposite, the ones that fear this are the ones thinking they're constantly being spied on as if they're of some great importance in some sort of master scheme by the government. Too many people need to stop watching spy movies.

Having your privacy invaded without discretion by a government in the name of "crime fighting" is the same whether it's a cop kicking in every door in a building because he thinks the criminal is in one of the apartments, or the government lying to innocent citizens to get them to unknowingly allow their phones to be connected to a fake cell tower while they're walking down the street. I don't CARE about the government's supposed intent in this instance, or whether they care about my texts. All I care about is the fact that they feel it's necessary to:

• Drag me up in the same net as the real fish they're looking for.
• Lie to me in order to do so.

A government that would do that is not to be trusted on anything they tell you.

 

[hudson1]

As cool as this admittedly is, it's amazing how so many people here have absolutely no problem with a government agency freely being able to access personal text/voice conversations.

Just because you have "nothing to hide." Umm, how about your privacy?

Or is that not important? Agreeing to have a Gmail account and it scanning your messages for targeted ads is one thing, but having a plane fly overhead and swoop up data, ESPECIALLY when there is no probable cause against you, is concerning.

I would wager that maintaining the privacy of an innocent individual is more important than busting a drug dealer selling weed to a bunch of High School kids.

I can make the same privacy argument for not liking going through airport scanners and putting all of my belonging through the Xray machine at airports. But I don't mind it because I know the whole effort is there to keep me and millions more protected.

 

[NT1440]

I can make the same privacy argument for not liking going through airport scanners and putting all of my belonging through the Xray machine at airports. But I don't mind it because I know the whole effort is there to keep me and millions more protected.

From....what exactly?

Terrorism is exceedingly rare. Odds are higher for you being killed by a shark.

I get that 9/11 scared the **** out of people, but for christi sake we've built all the architecture of a security state just to feel safe.

Home of the brave my ass.

 

[alent1234]

From....what exactly?

Terrorism is exceedingly rare. Odds are higher for you being killed by a shark.

I get that 9/11 scared the **** out of people, but for christi sake we've built all the architecture of a security state just to feel safe.

Home of the brave my ass.

i guess you don't remember the 80's

 

[hudson1]

I don't see anywhere in the article where a warrant is needed for this. They are not searching your phone for your data, as they are going through an intermediary. If anything, the 4th Amendment wouldn't apply, as all they would need to do is get a subpoena from the phone companies to use their towers. Nothing more.




Martin Niemöller was a prominent Protestant pastor who emerged as an outspoken public foe of Adolf Hitler and spent the last seven years of Nazi rule in concentration camps.

He was best known for the following quote:



Just because you aren't doing anything wrong doesn't mean you should be complicit in what is happening. That type of non-action implies that you also condone it.

BL.

The Nazis went after groups they didn't like. The best analogy I can think of in modern USA is Obama's hack at the IRS going after wealthy and outspoken conservatives but they didn't need airplanes to do that.

This world is not a perfect place nor was it ever. Governments everywhere have to deal with the difficult balance of protecting individuals freedoms and protecting their safety. Case in point: a guy I know (I'll see him tomorrow) is a survivor of the WTC attack on 9/11. In fact, not a single person from a floor above his made it out. My guess is he has a perspective on this discussion that's different than many others but it sure wouldn't be any less valid.

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From....what exactly?

Terrorism is exceedingly rare. Odds are higher for you being killed by a shark.

I get that 9/11 scared the **** out of people, but for christi sake we've built all the architecture of a security state just to feel safe.

Home of the brave my ass.

Have you thought about cause and effect? Maybe it's rare because we've done a relatively good job combating/thwarting it. I doubt anyone here wants to see more terrorism just to demonstrate why we need to be worried about it.

 

[mdlooker]

Like someone already posted before, from our first US Postmaster General:



Would you give up your freedoms for more protection? From this, it sounds like you would. This is why we have our Constitution; to protect ourselves from the government.

BL.

So it seems that you're willing to tie the hands of ways to protects citizens until which time something hits home to you and then you want them to "do whatever it takes" to catch the person responsible for committing such a heinous crime.

The Gov't is going to continue to do things without telling the citizens because of stuff like this. I think it's fine for airplanes.

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This is just wrong on so many levels. Giving up your privacy to the government in the name of fighting crime, just to "protect" yourself and "because you're not doing anything wrong" is ludicrous.

And on a more basic point, you don't seem to even understand what the article is saying. This is not the government tracking your data/calls while you're on a flight. This is the government using aircraft to monitor/track your data while you're walking down the street, by using said aircraft as fake cell phone towers. In other words, surreptitiously monitoring everyone who happens to be in an area, and lying by telling you that you're connected to a legitimate cell phone tower when you're not.

If you're not completely pissed off about this you're not paying attention.

Guess I'm not paying attention as I see it in a different light.

**Caveat** Is it wrong for the government to monitor us without our knowledge.. absolutely! But without that, how will they keep us safe? Word of mouth from fellow citizens? Ever since satellites, we've been getting spied on. We have departments dedicated to listening to enemy auditory to ensure our safety. I honestly think this has been going on looooong before our knowledge.

 

[phillipduran]

our enemies don't have borders anymore. if it means capturing the next terrorist and their cell, go for it. I'm not doing anything wrong, so i'm not worried

Mentalities like that is how freedom falls, liberty crumbles, and you become a slave to your state.

Chasing criminals and terrorists is NOT more important that your freedoms and rights. Blanket surveillance and data gathering grants too much power to the government and is there a history of governments abusing power?

The patriot act to combat terrorism is now primarily used to fight the drug war. What you allow, then grows and gets used in other ways. You grant these powers because "I have nothing to hide" and now they are looking through all your conversations. Just recently we saw political targeting by the IRS.

Crime prevention and anti-terrorism isn't such a big deal that we need to give all powers to the government. I don't care if they run into walls and difficulties. Our rights first, our privacy first.

 

[hansonjohn590]

our enemies don't have borders anymore. if it means capturing the next terrorist and their cell, go for it. I'm not doing anything wrong, so i'm not worried

Why don't you post your bank account information here?

If your not doing anything wrong, don't worry about it.

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

our enemies don't have borders anymore. if it means capturing the next terrorist and their cell, go for it. I'm not doing anything wrong, so i'm not worried

... said the Jew as he was being led to the "shower"...

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Since I am not doing anything wrong there is no need for that.. see how that works? Without probable cause they can't do that. With probable cause they can anyway whether you like it or not so...

Unless they think you are a terrorist. They don't need a warrant or probable cause in that situation because different laws apply, ones that presume you are guilty unless proven innocent. And the best part? Even if you're not a terrorist, if the government links your various activities and so much as suspects you, you are toast and have limited civil rights. I'm talking military courts and indefinite detention. That's assuming they don't send a drone out to kill you first.

So yes, they can do whatever they want even if you are doing nothing wrong.

 

[whooleytoo]

I think you're all missing the important point about this story:

The US government is offering free cellphone coverage! Woot! I wonder what their data-rates are like. Do they have a monthly cap?

 

[hudson1]

... said the Jew as he was being led to the "shower"...

----------



Unless they think you are a terrorist. They don't need a warrant or probable cause in that situation because different laws apply, ones that presume you are guilty unless proven innocent. And the best part? Even if you're not a terrorist, if the government links your various activities and so much as suspects you, you are toast and have limited civil rights. I'm talking military courts and indefinite detention. That's assuming they don't send a drone out to kill you first.

So yes, they can do whatever they want even if you are doing nothing wrong.

To connect the tracking of mobile phones to the murder of six million Jews seems a bit offensive to the handful of Holocaust survivors that are still living.

And where has anyone stated the "government can do anything they want"?

 

[octothorpe8]

How are people repeatedly surprised by the fact that the location-aware, always-connected devices we carry in our pockets and use for almost every purpose are being used to track our movements and activities?

 

[giantfan1224]

Why don't you post your bank account information here?

If your not doing anything wrong, don't worry about it.

Huh?

 

[iolinux333]

People not of that background mostly lived under brutal dictatorships for the past hundreds of years. I bet they do "give a damn". Or you think they liked it that way? Or would you like it that way? What's stopping you from moving to North Korea?

People usually end up with the government they want. Most people living under dictatorships think their dictators are just peachy. I'm not trying to make light of it, it's true! I used to think there was lots of vote fraud in the US, but when I ask people about their political views, they actually vote for all this BS. Most people LOVE a police state, especially women. Especially white women.

 

[unplugme71]

Luckily no mention that it picks up satellite phones. Nothing like a secure connection to deep-space.

 

[NMBob]

I don't trust a government that doesn't trust me with a phone.

I would have up-voted your comment, but I'm even afraid to do that.

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I think you're all missing the important point about this story:

The US government is offering free cellphone coverage! Woot! I wonder what their data-rates are like. Do they have a monthly cap?

Yeah. The FCC should reclassify those boxes as "common carriers" and tell the CIA/Marshals/Whoever that if they are going to broadcast a signal it needs to be a valid one and allow people to make phone calls on it.

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Luckily no mention that it picks up satellite phones. Nothing like a secure connection to deep-space.

The Iridium network is owned by the government.

 

[chaosbunny]

People usually end up with the government they want. Most people living under dictatorships think their dictators are just peachy. I'm not trying to make light of it, it's true! I used to think there was lots of vote fraud in the US, but when I ask people about their political views, they actually vote for all this BS. Most people LOVE a police state, especially women. Especially white women.

Sure, that's what propaganda is for.

Interesting question, does it mean they like it if they are being brainwashed to like it?

 

[bradl]

So it seems that you're willing to tie the hands of ways to protects citizens until which time something hits home to you and then you want them to "do whatever it takes" to catch the person responsible for committing such a heinous crime.

The Gov't is going to continue to do things without telling the citizens because of stuff like this. I think it's fine for airplanes.

Where were you in 1996?

I ask that, because the same group of people who brought down the WTC on 9/11 tried to blow it up 5 years earlier. You will note that absolutely none of our freedoms were taken while we were tracking down the culprits responsible.

No shoes taken off. No 3-1-1 at the airports. No TSA
No warrantless wiretaps.
while existing, no trials held by FISC.

None of the freedoms we had were chipped away as a cost for fighting terrorism.

The government exists to not only protect its citizens, but also within the confines of the Constitution, which protects the citizens FROM the government. In this issue, if the government used this method to find out information that Fred Dodd (made up the name) is trying to aid ISIS, but also found out that you were a part of a huge child pornography distribution ring, and arrested you for it, do you know what your rights are there?

I'm guessing no, because they searched for and seized your data without informing you they were doing so, which is required per the Constitution.

You need to re-read that document and what your rights are, instead of living behind your fear that the big bad terrorists are coming to get you.

Ben Franklin was right.

BL.

 

[iolinux333]

Sure, that's what propaganda is for.

Interesting question, does it mean they like it if they are being brainwashed to like it?

Well people like their iPhones so I'd have to say yes.