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damphoose

macrumors regular
May 12, 2014
197
175
They have to start somewhere and the information released in the Epic trial shows the urgency of the situation with the FAANGs.
Except this isn’t really that urgent except to Epic. When they finally get around to content providers its going to be too late. Imagine trying to untangle Amazon from MGM in 2027 or whenever they finally get around to realize that there are actually companies killing competition right under their noses.

The other poster was correct. This is a dog and pony show. They can stop anti-competitive behavior if they wanted to but they want headlinges instead
 

9927036

Cancelled
Nov 12, 2020
472
460
Except this isn’t really that urgent except to Epic. When they finally get around to content providers its going to be too late. Imagine trying to untangle Amazon from MGM in 2027 or whenever they finally get around to realize that there are actually companies killing competition right under their noses.

The other poster was correct. This is a dog and pony show. They can stop anti-competitive behavior if they wanted to but they want headlinges instead
I think we should wait and see what happens with the legislation. I agree with you about content providers.
 

mdriftmeyer

macrumors 68040
Feb 2, 2004
3,819
1,990
Pacific Northwest
They have lost a lot of market share to streaming. They don't have near the power they used too.
If you're talking ISPs, that's a different story, those should be regulated like landline telephone service, electricity, and water.

Cable companies own most of the content production. Comcast isn't threatened by streaming. There aren't that many cable companies life in the country. Those have mostly merged with larger conglomerates.

Comcast Holdings with NBC Universal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assets_owned_by_Comcast


Netflix, AppleTV, DisneyPlus won't put a dent into Comcast assets.
 

Krizoitz

macrumors 68000
Apr 26, 2003
1,743
2,097
Tokyo, Japan
Apple's business practices are awful and Tim Cook has really pissed off developers.
Both of your statements are opinions, and neither one has anything to do with whether Apple is a monopoly or not.

If you hate Apple so much why are you here? Would you like the URL for a Samsung forum?
 
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djphat2000

macrumors 65816
Jun 30, 2012
1,091
1,130
Apple failed to address developer relations in any serious fashion at WWDC, and so they’ve now reaped the reward: a bipartisan bill specifically targeting the App Store business model.
So if Apple decided they no longer want to have a business at all, and walk away from it. Close shop if you will. What happens to all those developers?

You know, Apple could if they wanted to. Stop selling anyone else's apps today. Take it all down. We could go right back to flip phone days and the sorta smart devices with only the built in apps.
 

djphat2000

macrumors 65816
Jun 30, 2012
1,091
1,130
Multiple payment systems and application sources have worked great for many many years in Windows, Linux, and Macs. Don’t like it? Don’t use it! Just like you do when you’re on a PC/Mac. The rest of us want to have more freedom to do what WE want with OUR devices.

Apple can put an option saying: “installing application from outside sources can be dangerous, are you sure you want to do that?”…. Click yes or no.

Simple as that. I want to be able to get open source application like in Macs/PCs/Linux and not have to be dependent only on Apple, because they push developers to charge us freaking subscription fees for stupid simple applications like Calendar apps.

Open it up for more competition and better apps! Locking down the store does not benefit the consumer but Apple only. Costing the users more money because Apple pushes developers to offer subscription for less fees. If they want to do that… fine… I would download a similar app somewhere else then that is open source.
It sounds like you want something that Apple doesn't make. Maybe go look for that product instead that does what you want. Apple makes a product they want to make. If you happen to like it, your welcome to purchase it. You're not welcome to tell them what to do just like they can't force you to purchase their product "only".

If this was a case of only Apple existed and only Apple had an App Store and no other service or product from anyone else existed. They would be a monopoly. But they are not, developers have choice to either make a app for iOS or not. No one is forcing them. If they want to make something, they play by the rules and you're on the store. Not complicated.
 

SegNerd

macrumors 6502
Feb 28, 2020
298
298
I think some people are opposing these kinds of government interventions not because they really think Apple is legally in the right, but more because they just really love Apple.

I love Apple, but I don’t think it should be above the law. Monopolization is an issue that needs to be taken seriously.
 

PlayUltimate

macrumors 6502a
Jul 29, 2016
936
1,715
Boulder, CO
Exactly. By bullying and concerted action (or at least collusion), the big players forced them to change how they did business.
No business has the inherent obligation to allow everyone, regardless, to be a customer.
The standard "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service" proves that there are standards that need to be met in order for someone to be a customer at a particular restaurant. It is arguable if Parler broke standards on the platforms they were "forced" out of. But, after Parler changed their business, Apple again offered their app.
 

9927036

Cancelled
Nov 12, 2020
472
460
Both of your statements are opinions, and neither one has anything to do with whether Apple is a monopoly or not.

If you hate Apple so much why are you here? Would you like the URL for a Samsung forum?
Yes they are opinions. Just like you have opinions. I am talking about how Apple treats developers. Can one not discuss business practices and only discuss monopoly issues?

I do not hate Apple. Thats is your opinion.
 

PlayUltimate

macrumors 6502a
Jul 29, 2016
936
1,715
Boulder, CO
Yes they are opinions. Just like you have opinions. I am talking about how Apple treats developers. Can one not discuss business practices and only discuss monopoly issues?

I do not hate Apple. Thats is your opinion.
I understand the distinction between the way Apple treats developers and whether Apple has a monopoly. Historically, anti-trust/monopolistic sanctions occurred due to abuses that occur to the end user/customer. Most of the complaints that I have heard about the iOS store is from developers. User ratings show few complaints from end-consumers.
That is why this fight sounds so strange.
 

avz

macrumors 68000
Oct 7, 2018
1,791
1,867
Stalingrad, Russia
The confrontation between traditional establishment/bankers and digital corporations seems to be in full swing.
I am not a fan of either, there should be a healthy balance. Bankers already had enough experience and know what they can and cannot do. Digital corporations are still very green and if they are given too much power they will crash everything with their crypto currency’s.
On a positive note this is highly likely one of the very few topics where Putin and Biden will agree on.
 

Macbookprodude

Suspended
Jan 1, 2018
3,306
898
So if Apple decided they no longer want to have a business at all, and walk away from it. Close shop if you will. What happens to all those developers?

You know, Apple could if they wanted to. Stop selling anyone else's apps today. Take it all down. We could go right back to flip phone days and the sorta smart devices with only the built in apps.
I am all for that !
 

Macbookprodude

Suspended
Jan 1, 2018
3,306
898
Both of your statements are opinions, and neither one has anything to do with whether Apple is a monopoly or not.

If you hate Apple so much why are you here? Would you like the URL for a Samsung forum?
Commissar Cook has pissed off everyone. Its a miracle Apple is still around. It should have died with Steve when he died. Sadly.. we all want Steve back.. but under Commissar Cook, it will suffer greatly.
 

AppliedMicro

macrumors 68020
Aug 17, 2008
2,289
2,636
No business has the inherent obligation to allow everyone, regardless, to be a customer.
Common carriers - which can be a private, for-profit business - have an obligation to serve (mostly) everyone in the are of their service. Apple may not be a common carrier in the traditional sense but it does have some similar market power.

To quote the terms of the American Choice and Innovation Online Act:

Is Apple operating a "covered platform" that is a "critical trading partner" with "the ability to restrict or impede the access of a business user" (software developer) "to its users or customers" or to a service a business user needs "to effectively serve" their customers?

If so, it is unlawful to exclude competing products or services where that would hinder competition.
In that sense, Apple may be obligated to allow Spotify (a service competing to Apple’s own Apple Music) access to the Apple App Store.
 
Last edited:

PlayUltimate

macrumors 6502a
Jul 29, 2016
936
1,715
Boulder, CO
Common carriers - which can be a private, for-profit business - have an obligation to serve (mostly) everyone in the are of their service. Apple may not be a common carrier in the traditional sense but it does have some similar market power.

To quote the terms of the American Choice and Innovation Online Act:

Is Apple operating a "covered platform" that is a "critical trading partner" with "the ability to restrict or impede the access of a business user" (software developer) "to its users or customers" or to a service a business user needs "to effectively serve" their customers?

If so, it is unlawful to exclude competing products or services where that would hinder competition.
In that sense, Apple may be obligated to allow Spotify (a service competing to Apple’s own Apple Music) access to the Apple App Store.
I agree with you. The question is would Apple, Amazon, et al. be considered common carriers when other options exist. Even on the iPhone web apps are not restricted in any way. It would be hard to argue that AWS is a common carrier but it might be easier than arguing Apple is.
 

duffman9000

macrumors 68020
Sep 7, 2003
2,327
8,082
Deep in the Depths of CA
Multiple payment systems and application sources have worked great for many many years in Windows, Linux, and Macs. Don’t like it? Don’t use it! Just like you do when you’re on a PC/Mac. The rest of us want to have more freedom to do what WE want with OUR devices.

Apple can put an option saying: “installing application from outside sources can be dangerous, are you sure you want to do that?”…. Click yes or no.

Simple as that. I want to be able to get open source application like in Macs/PCs/Linux and not have to be dependent only on Apple, because they push developers to charge us freaking subscription fees for stupid simple applications like Calendar apps.

Open it up for more competition and better apps! Locking down the store does not benefit the consumer but Apple only. Costing the users more money because Apple pushes developers to offer subscription for less fees. If they want to do that… fine… I would download a similar app somewhere else then that is open source.
Basically, you're asking Apple to make iOS like Android?
 

shplock

macrumors 6502a
Dec 25, 2015
846
484
Somewhere in a Galaxy far far away
Seems like a step in the right direction. I wonder who gets to define what is a dominant platform? I mean would the Playstation 5 buisness model be legal under this legislation?
It is a dumb move as politicians are the last people to b embossing anyone around right now with the Republicans refusing to do the right thing from sending Americans covid relief cheques or refusing to push voter restriction bills and the Democrats are as bad for being weak and so desperate to please the GOP.
 

Macbookprodude

Suspended
Jan 1, 2018
3,306
898
It is a dumb move as politicians are the last people to b embossing anyone around right now with the Republicans refusing to do the right thing from sending Americans covid relief cheques or refusing to push voter restriction bills and the Democrats are as bad for being weak and so desperate to please the GOP.
They are all bad.. but I will say Democrats are the new communists.
 
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