Sounds like we have reached a point where Apple needs to allow more control over certain features in the Camera and maybe create a “Pro” section of Settings for those who want to control the amount of post-processing that happens.
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iPhone 15 Pro Upgraded from a 11 Pro to a 15 Pro and disappointed overall
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My comment wasn’t being sarcastic it was genuine advice. I had a iPhone 12 Pro Max and did a trip to Disney and was very happy with all the photos on my phone till I got them back on my iMac and was massively disappointed. I then went and got a Sony a7 mk3 and fell in love with photography as a complete novice.
Got some great photos the following year at Disney and then the novelty wore off with lugging the camera around.
I still think for key family events or important photos then a dedicated camera is better than the iPhone.
I think it’s the compromise we still have to make with smart phone cameras and it’s ultimately down to personal preference and the trade offs each individual is prepared to make.
You're missing the point though. It's only a compromise we "have" to make with smartphone cameras because Apple refuses to add a simple, intuitive and easily implementable feature.
There is no technological reason this feature can't be included. They're already halfway there with "Photographic Styles" -- a feature which literally lets you have input on the camera pipeline. The warmth setting in Photographic Styles is not a filter. It is literally baked into the processing. The phone can already take photos without the sharpening -- it does it in burst mode. It does it in ProRAW mode.
You used to be able to disable Deep Fusion. You used to be able to disable Smart HDR. There was a toggle! Now they've decided to take that away. So not only is Apple refusing to add a simple feature, they've actually taken away features. On "Pro" cameras, you have less control than you did 4-5 years ago. iPhone 11 Pro, OP's previous phone, literally lets you choose when you want Smart HDR to fire.
This is my entire point. When people say "get a real camera, a smartphone isn't good for this use case" it's dismissive of the fact that Apple is the only reason that is the case for the iPhone. Apple is deciding not to let us use the camera hardware in the way we want. Apple is forcing this processing into Live Photos.
The smaller sensor on an iPhone cannot compete with a Sony A7 Mk3 -- true. But the phone is still fully capable of taking photos I am pleased with. I know this because my 6 year old iPhone X is capable of doing it, and it has a smaller lens and sensor.
I am not trying to argue that a smartphone can compete with the image quality of a Canon or Sony mirrorless camera. I am trying to argue that the hardware is still more than good enough to generate a pleasing image, yet apple FORCES the end user to have a highly sharpened and contrasted photo whether they like it or not. They spend 30 minutes of every iPhone launch event talking about the camera, but if you don't like their processing choices, their response is: "get bent, buddy".
I feel that by asking Apple to allow me to tell Deep Fusion to chill the f out and use less sharpening, I am not asking for very much. I am asking for Apple to even slightly maybe a little bit pretend to admit that end users might not be toddlers.
Returned my 15 Pro and replaced the battery in my 13 Pro and kept that.I think I had a really special 11 Pro. My battery health was 91%, after 4 years of heavy use. It made some fantastic pictures. It was the perfect size, for me. But it was starting to show its age, it was slow or freezing up sometimes (maybe due to iOS 17) and I was constantly low on storage (it was 64 GB).
So I bit the bullet and upgraded to the 15 Pro.
There are a few positives, definitely: the larger storage, the 120Hz screen, and the CPU/RAM increases which are noticeable. The speaker is louder (yey!). Oh, and props to USB-C, finally.
But other than that, I'm surprised to find that:
- the camera is a mess. Ok, the ultrawide is better, but the rest of them are very hit and miss, and overall worse than the 11 Pro. There is a kind of processing that happens after I take the picture that dramatically modifies the final result from the preview. I cannot turn HDR off. The skin tones especially are way off, with a gray/blue tint that I can't get rid of. The lighting overall is altered, the colours modified, the shadows are murdered, I even made side by side comparisons with the 11 Pro in my home under different lighting/shade conditions. It just changes the pictures so much and there's nothing I can do about it. The focusing distance for both the main camera and the zoom have increased, up to a point where I need to adjust distance sometimes, something which had never happened on the 11. This also creates some kind of weird perspective shift between the cameras, especially when trying to use the zoom lens at closer range. Even the selfie camera is worse, the skin just looks horrible now. (To account for display differences, for comparison purposes the pictures were transfered to a neutral display, my 5k iMac)
- there is a gigantic camera bulge on the back for no reason. Like, seriously, this thing takes worse pictures with all its huge sensors and lenses
- the battery life is marginally better, if at all
- the hand feel is... meh. As I said, the 11 Pro was the perfect size, and the straight edges are making this one harder to hold comfortably
- the screen itself is worse quality. Looking at them side by side at similar brightness levels, the 11 Pro is just a tiny bit richer, warmer and more vivid, while the 15 Pro is a bit washed out.. like when you turn on gamma correction too much on a display.
So overall, 4 years later, I was very surprised that some the most important aspects of the phone are kinda worse. And since photography is very important for me, I'm actually debating whether I should keep the new one or try to live one more year with the old 11 Pro.
Rant over
Is anyone else in the same boat, or am I crazy?
15 Pro seems to be a problematic product with lots of stuff that had bugs or other issues.
I don't believe a word the OP said after he said the iPhone 15 has a worse screen. I went from the iPhone 11 Pro Max to the iPhone 15 Pro Max and the iPhone 11 Pro Max gets stomped in terms of screen quality, it's not even a competition.
And in terms of camera's, the camera on the iPhone 15 Pro Max is better as it less grainy, especially at long distance shots. I really didn't' like that about the iPhone 11 Pro Max camera.
And in terms of camera's, the camera on the iPhone 15 Pro Max is better as it less grainy, especially at long distance shots. I really didn't' like that about the iPhone 11 Pro Max camera.
Yes, precisely. We reached this point the moment the sharpening became highly AI enhanced -- with the 11 Pro.
It was pretty much unanimous prior to the 11 or maybe 12 series phones that the computational photography was doing the phone a lot of favors. People weren't looking at iPhone X photos and thinking "man that is really way too over processed and sharpened". They weren't thinking "man those colors are way too aggressive, they punched up the contrast slider way too much".
The iPhone X and XS are arguably the best balance, they have solid dynamic range thanks to Smart HDR but don't do much sharpening and noise reduction. The end result is a natural, pleasing but slightly soft photo. Yes, it won't look amazing blown up on a screen but it looks at least natural.
You didn't hear a lot of "man I miss my iPhone 6 camera" when people upgraded to iPhone X. But nowadays it's not uncommon to hear someone say "man I miss my iPhone 11 camera" after getting a brand new 14 or 15. That's a sign that customization is long overdue.
The shots being less grainy is partially a result of a larger sensor, but mostly a result of more aggressive noise reduction. It is not true detail you are seeing, it is AI enhanced. Which is why it looks smooth.
If you want to look at what the actual sensor can do... Take a photo using Halide shooting RAW. Not ProRAW, just RAW. Grain everywhere.
I did take a few RAW photos while hiking and I didn't notice grain? My only complaint about RAW was that the colors and brightness were off from the real world. With "AI" pictures, the pictures looked like how it supposed to look like.
But I'm not a professional photographer for National Geographic, so my standards are probably lower.
Like I said in my comment, RAW and ProRAW are not the same. You cannot take RAW photos with the native camera app -- they are ProRAW (even though the camera says RAW in the corner).
ProRAW, as Apple describes it, already has their processing baked in.
Plain RAW would have a lot of grain. ProRAW has noise reduction already baked in.
Who said I used the native app? I have a paid app called ProCam 8. All processing is disabled as you have full control over the camera yourself.
And it doesn't have alot of grain based on the pictures I took with it. Atleast, not at the same level as the iPhone 11 Pro Max has for sure.
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I’m on an 11 Pro also and by and large find it fine - I can’t see a reason to upgrade yet. Actually I just went out and sourced a new official leather case for it (getting hard to source) and 2 Belkin tempered glass covers. Usually just replacing the case and cover glass protector is enough to make it feel like a new phone lol. So this should at least see me out another year. Battery health for me is 79% but I still get a full day usage easy. Photos are still fine
Actually, if you go review the archives, people made exactly those kind of complaints. The iPhone 11 seriously upped the processing of photos such that while we lost the grain present in earlier, less processed photos, everyone - people especially - ended up looking like digital paintings - facial features were overly smoothed and photos lost much of their depth.
I too recently switched from the 11 Pro to the 15 Pro. I was one of the people complaining earlier when Apple first started this overprocessing. That said, the 15 Pro‘s camera is markedly better than the 11 Pro in basically every condition I’ve tried. If the OP’s camera is not accurately capturing color - something is wrong. And sorry - the screens are simply no comparison.
Yes, something is wrong. Something is wrong with the processing. I tested this at 2 different Apple Stores and 4 different AT&T stores. In every single case, with every single 15 Pro, the burst mode photos take accurate representations of the colors and contrast in the scene, and the ProRAW photos take accurate representations of the colors and contrast in the scene, but the regular Live Photo snapshot photos have significantly enhanced contrast and sharpening. This is easily verifiable to anyone who has a 15 Pro. Take some burst mode shots and then take a normal photo and give it a few seconds to process. Now look at them side by side in your camera roll.
Sorry to hear your unhappiness with iPhone 15 pro. I am pretty happy with mine. Camera and all features in it especially the light weight are awesome. Keep calm and be happy with you have/get!😊 Life is too short to be unhappy 😊I think I had a really special 11 Pro. My battery health was 91%, after 4 years of heavy use. It made some fantastic pictures. It was the perfect size, for me. But it was starting to show its age, it was slow or freezing up sometimes (maybe due to iOS 17) and I was constantly low on storage (it was 64 GB).
So I bit the bullet and upgraded to the 15 Pro.
There are a few positives, definitely: the larger storage, the 120Hz screen, and the CPU/RAM increases which are noticeable. The speaker is louder (yey!). Oh, and props to USB-C, finally.
But other than that, I'm surprised to find that:
- the camera is a mess. Ok, the ultrawide is better, but the rest of them are very hit and miss, and overall worse than the 11 Pro. There is a kind of processing that happens after I take the picture that dramatically modifies the final result from the preview. I cannot turn HDR off. The skin tones especially are way off, with a gray/blue tint that I can't get rid of. The lighting overall is altered, the colours modified, the shadows are murdered, I even made side by side comparisons with the 11 Pro in my home under different lighting/shade conditions. It just changes the pictures so much and there's nothing I can do about it. The focusing distance for both the main camera and the zoom have increased, up to a point where I need to adjust distance sometimes, something which had never happened on the 11. This also creates some kind of weird perspective shift between the cameras, especially when trying to use the zoom lens at closer range. Even the selfie camera is worse, the skin just looks horrible now. (To account for display differences, for comparison purposes the pictures were transfered to a neutral display, my 5k iMac)
- there is a gigantic camera bulge on the back for no reason. Like, seriously, this thing takes worse pictures with all its huge sensors and lenses
- the battery life is marginally better, if at all
- the hand feel is... meh. As I said, the 11 Pro was the perfect size, and the straight edges are making this one harder to hold comfortably
- the screen itself is worse quality. Looking at them side by side at similar brightness levels, the 11 Pro is just a tiny bit richer, warmer and more vivid, while the 15 Pro is a bit washed out.. like when you turn on gamma correction too much on a display.
So overall, 4 years later, I was very surprised that some the most important aspects of the phone are kinda worse. And since photography is very important for me, I'm actually debating whether I should keep the new one or try to live one more year with the old 11 Pro.
Rant over
Is anyone else in the same boat, or am I crazy?
My Midnight green iPhone 11 Pro Max was my favorite iPhone to date. But this past Summer it was destroyed while installing solar panels on a very high roof. I was going to replace it with an iPhone 15 Pro Max, but the Solar Company i work for gave me a corporate iPhone 14 Plus. It works fine, but I still plan to get another personal iPhone Pro down the road. Think I’m gonna wait for the iPhone 16 Pro Max. Rumors are saying the ultra wide & telephoto lenses could both be getting 48mp sensors.
I was today years old when I found out you could do this. Also by pushing and holding down the shutter button just records a video as long as you are pushing the buttons down.
Isn’t the iPhone 15 basically the iPhone X in disguise? Sorry I just couldn’t pass that up. Lol 😂
Just been 4 years since i got 11 pro, and still satisfied with it. Occasional short hiccup here and there, but barely noticeable. I also have 64 GB of storage, and have to say storage optimisation (original photos & videos on iCloud only) helps massively (phone full of Apps & stuff, still got around 12GB of free space currently). From my experience on Macs and iPhones in general, having low storage definitely hurts performance (freeing up storage always makes the device snappier and more responsive).
see OP in that thread picking and choosing there. Correct there is no "halo" on the sky, but there are black lines outlining the white trimming on the building on the X, not present on the 15 pro, which is a sure sign of oversharpening on the X too. Its just which is less obvious from a non-zoomed in view? I argue the halo is a better decision as it is very subtle.
Have to agree with this from the examples in that thread. It's hard to say what the phone was focused on in either of those photos. But there are trade-offs in both examples; so to say one is better seems very subjective. For example, that thread seems to completely ignore how much better the AT&T sign came through on the 15 Pro.
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Absolutely ridiculous arguments. Downright absurd.
1. I am not "ignoring" the better sign detail. The 15 Pro has a sensor 5x the size of the X, it damn well better have more detail -- and complaining about sharpening doesn't invalidate the newer cameras capturing more detail. These are completely tangential and unrelated. My complaint is only about the complete lack of ability to turn off the sharpening. Nowhere did I say "and signs have less detail than they used to".
2. The halos from aggressive sharpening are objectively and inarguably noticeable without zooming in, especially once you know what to look for. This was never a problem with my iPhone X, literally ever. Here is an iPhone 15 Pro photo. You can easily and clearly see the glowing edges around the leaves of the tree in the top center of the screen. It's not even a question.
3. Preference is subjective and so the idea that someone may prefer the over sharpened look doesn't lead to the logical conclusion that it's not a problem for other people. Try to consider that many people use these phones and so your preference regarding photos is not relevant to the discussion about whether or not I should be able to turn it off. I don't like it, you do. Great. Cool. Now let me turn it off, you can keep it on, we can both be happy. You can enjoy your over sharpened HDR mess of a photo and I can enjoy the photos without such processing.
4. I can't say for sure but I highly doubt the dark line under the building is due to sharpening, rather, it looks like a shadow.
Paging @uwotm8?
1. I am not "ignoring" the better sign detail. The 15 Pro has a sensor 5x the size of the X, it damn well better have more detail -- and complaining about sharpening doesn't invalidate the newer cameras capturing more detail. These are completely tangential and unrelated. My complaint is only about the complete lack of ability to turn off the sharpening. Nowhere did I say "and signs have less detail than they used to".
2. The halos from aggressive sharpening are objectively and inarguably noticeable without zooming in, especially once you know what to look for. This was never a problem with my iPhone X, literally ever. Here is an iPhone 15 Pro photo. You can easily and clearly see the glowing edges around the leaves of the tree in the top center of the screen. It's not even a question.
3. Preference is subjective and so the idea that someone may prefer the over sharpened look doesn't lead to the logical conclusion that it's not a problem for other people. Try to consider that many people use these phones and so your preference regarding photos is not relevant to the discussion about whether or not I should be able to turn it off. I don't like it, you do. Great. Cool. Now let me turn it off, you can keep it on, we can both be happy. You can enjoy your over sharpened HDR mess of a photo and I can enjoy the photos without such processing.
4. I can't say for sure but I highly doubt the dark line under the building is due to sharpening, rather, it looks like a shadow.
Paging @uwotm8?
Hahaha. Ok I am the OP from that thread. This is hilarious. There are halos everywhere, I did not pick and choose. And now that I know people are claiming BS I am going to post a multitude more examples, some from that very photo.
The “black line” on the white trim of the building was a shadow that was there in real life. The 15 Pro simply used AI to try to evenly light that building. The X got the colors and shadows right. So nice try but no.
The halos aren’t subtle, I don’t even know how someone can say that haha. I am excited to post more examples here to see if you keep saying this.
The phone was using autofocus. Lol at saying my thread “ignores” the sign. Idgaf about that, I wanted to point out the HDR effect that I can’t turn off.
Now let me go pull up those photos again so I can post more examples. This is funny to me the lengths some of you will go to to defend Apple lol.
“hey I find this HDR overdone, wish I could turn it off”
”why are you ignoring the sign that’s clearer”
just lmao
All I was pointing out was there were trade-offs in both - which there are.
And by saying "idgaf" about the sign, you are, by definition, picking and choosing what you prefer, as the sign is objectively more clear, less noisy, and easier to read / see. 🤷♂️
Wasn't intended to criticize you personally, but if it came off that way, apologies.
I mean, you guys complain about people willing to defend Apple to a fault or make excuses for them, but you're not willing to give an inch from your side.
I'm not willing to defend Apple to a fault, but I'm willing to recognize that there's some balance in the middle here. Do they over-sharpen? Absolutely. But is that always wrong? No. Would it be nice if they could give a little more control over that? Sure. If you don't like it, keep sending in feedback and change phones until they do what you want them to do.