Very Important Question: How To Keep High Sierra Secure???

[MarkC426]

I am sorry, but a lot of this is BS.
As posted by numerous people in this thread, you can use a mac with older OS's indefinitely, even PowerPC machines.
It all comes down to safe browsing.
Don't be suckered into the whole 'Tin hat' thing, where you are a prime target with your ultra high powered Mac mini that is host to ultra-sensitive top secret information...... ?

 

[TiggrToo]

Wow, TiggrToo, thank you for your reply!

I was just wanting to use this Mac Mini mid2011 running High Sierra as a "backup computer", but from all the posts I've read from you it seems like I'd be safer installing Windows 10 or a Nix based operating system?

No, far from it. You’ll be far better off stopping with this irrational panic.

I used to be a military security consultant back in my day (long distant past) and I didn’t see this level of paranoia with any of the Wing Commanders (RAF) nor Majors (British Army) I worked along side.

 

[theorist9]

Some food for thought... a 10 year old macOS will still be far more secure than an up to date Windows 10 install. I run High Sierra, and I'm a software developer. I will be staying on it for at least 2-3 more years. All you really need for security is half an ounce of common sense, and a modern up to date browser. HS will still have modern browser support in several years.

If I use common sense, how much risk am I taking if I continue to use Safari as my primary browser in High Sierra? High Sierra limits me to Safari v. 13.1.2, which received its last security update in July 2020. I have Chrome and Firefox, and use them for websites that require them, but much prefer Safari's interface.

[I've stayed with HS because it's the last MacOS with native subpixel rendering, which I find is needed to make text look sharp on sub-retina (<220 ppi) monitors, including my primary, which is a 27" 4k, and thus has only 160 ppi.]

 

[BeautifulWoman_1984]

I am sorry, but a lot of this is BS.
As posted by numerous people in this thread, you can use a mac with older OS's indefinitely, even PowerPC machines.
It all comes down to safe browsing.
Don't be suckered into the whole 'Tin hat' thing, where you are a prime target with your ultra high powered Mac mini that is host to ultra-sensitive top secret information...... ?

Thank you for your reply MarkC!

I'm really afraid of the idea of running a PowerPC machine since these haven't been updated in years... It just seems so easy for someone on the Internet to search for users using these extremely outdated OS' and accessing user data...

No, far from it. You’ll be far better off stopping with this irrational panic.

Thank you for your reply TiggrToo!

I really just want to feel 100% safe when I'm using my Apple devices and devices in general.

EDIT:
I don't want to come across as irrational as I've really thought through my questions very deeply.

 

[MarkC426]

Even with the latest macs and latest MacOS, there are always new bugs/vulnerabilities being discovered.

Ignorance is also bliss.
I was using G4/G5 macs for many years before discovering this forum, and never had an issue.
It is more the fact that people make you aware of some known issue, which may effect next to knowone.

Just because someone has discovered a vulnerability, doesn't magically make you a prime target.
The paranoia sets in.

 

[BeautifulWoman_1984]

Even with the latest macs and latest MacOS, there are always new bugs/vulnerabilities being discovered.

Ignorance is also bliss.
I was using G4/G5 macs for many years before discovering this forum, and never had an issue.
It is more the fact that people make you aware of some known issue, which may effect next to knowone.

Just because someone has discovered a vulnerability, doesn't magically make you a prime target.
The paranoia sets in.

Thank you for your reply MarkC426.

If I use common sense, how much risk am I taking if I continue to use Safari as my primary browser in High Sierra? High Sierra limits me to Safari v. 13.1.2, which received its last security update in July 2020. I have Chrome and Firefox, and use them for websites that require them, but much prefer Safari's interface.

[I've stayed with HS because it's the last MacOS with native subpixel rendering, which I find is needed to make text look sharp on sub-retina (<220 ppi) monitors, including my primary, which is a 27" 4k, and thus has only 160 ppi.]

Thank you for your reply Theorist9!

This is what is really harming me and giving me great anxiety:
My big fear with running High Sierra on my Mac Mini mid2011 is that it will be attacked before I even open any Apps like Google Chrome or Firefox... ???

This was a real problem I experienced myself when I was using Windows XP back in around 2003: my Windows XP PC would be attacked and it'd restart itself and there was nothing I could do to stop it. My Windows XP PC didn't have any malicious Apps installed at all. Since High Sierra is no longer supported I'm worried I could have the same problem I had with Windows XP while using High Sierra... ???

I'd appreciate any help with this serious problem of mine!

 

[DeltaMac]

"Not Supported" does not mean the same thing as "suddenly not secure in any way"
There will still be updates to the internal security parts of your system: XProtect, Gatekeeper, also the application firewall that you can turn on in your System Preferences/Security pane. XProtect and Gatekeeper are always enabled.
Even though High Sierra is not getting updates to the system, it continues to get updates to its built-in security features. I like rebooting every few days, because a reboot triggers a check for those updates, even though Apple is supposed to automatically push those updates out, a reboot re-checks for that very thing.
And, fortunately, you are no longer in Windows XP.
Is OS X, now macOS, a forever solution to all your security questions?
Is macOS EVER absolutely protected for every possibility?
Can the world ever be rid of chronic paranoia?
Nope, but macOS is natively way beyond Windows XP. (That's a hint: Don't use Windows XP -- and please don't compare macOS to Windows XP. Those are on distinct levels regarding security. Dorothy, you are no longer in Kansas... I mean, no longer under the spell of Windows XP.)
Move ahead. Stay Safe!

 

[mortlocli]

How to keep HS secure - simple.. don’t go online!!

or you could only go online via a boot up CD or DVD using linux. Hopefully not being rewritable no changes could be made and outside access wouldn’t be to your hard drive.

 

[mortlocli]

How to keep HS secure - simple.. don’t go online!!

or you could only go online via a boot up CD or DVD using linux. Hopefully not being rewritable no changes could be made and outside access wouldn’t be to your hard drive.

Or booting up linux from an external ssd drive would be a quicker way to go.
intruders may be able to see your internal hard drive but it would be difficult to access without administrator rights.

 

[MarkC426]

Even though High Sierra is not getting updates to the system, it continues to get updates to its built-in security features. I like rebooting every few days, because a reboot triggers a check for those updates, even though Apple is supposed to automatically push those updates out, a reboot re-checks for that very thing.

I really didn't know about this..... ? ?

 

[timidpimpin]

There is a Linux distro called Tails that operates 100% within Tor. It's for people who take privacy very seriously, and Edward Snowden himself endorses it.

Tails - Home

tails.boum.org

 

[mdgm]

There are ways to run newer Mac OS even though it is unsupported. With OCLP there are patches for graphics acceleration now for the discrete AMD GPU used in 15" 2011 MBPs, the mid-2011 iMacs and the mid-2011 Mac Mini with the discrete AMD GPU.

 

[ian87w]

Thank you for your reply MarkC426.

Thank you for your reply Theorist9!

This is what is really harming me and giving me great anxiety:
My big fear with running High Sierra on my Mac Mini mid2011 is that it will be attacked before I even open any Apps like Google Chrome or Firefox... ???

This was a real problem I experienced myself when I was using Windows XP back in around 2003: my Windows XP PC would be attacked and it'd restart itself and there was nothing I could do to stop it. My Windows XP PC didn't have any malicious Apps installed at all. Since High Sierra is no longer supported I'm worried I could have the same problem I had with Windows XP while using High Sierra... ???

I'd appreciate any help with this serious problem of mine!

This is my standard procedure on any computer I have.

1. Make sure you are behind a router with NAT firewall. Pretty much most routers today do this, but it's a good idea to make sure.
2. Create a Standard non-administrator account for my daily use. This should block many potential nefarious attacks as most of them will go after the main system files, which will require admin password. That way you'll know when something going on when suddenly you're faced with a dialog box asking for admin password.
3. Make sure to enable Firewall. I find it interesting that Apple doesn't enable Firewall by default on macOS. Once enabled, it is also a good idea to check into the setting once in a while to review what apps are allowed to accept internet connections from outside by the firewall.
4. Use up-to-date browser. Since modern OSes like macOS and Windows 10 are pretty secure on their own, most attacks come from user action, and the main attack point becomes the browser. When I was on High Sierra on my Mac mini, I use Microsoft Edge as my browser since it is still up to date vs the built-in Safari. So consider using other current browsers like Edge, Brave, or Firefox as your default browser instead of Safari.
5. Use ad-blockers on your browser. Nefarious actors now use ads and pop-ups to mislead you into installing malware yourself.
6. Good browsing habits and good computing habits. Don't just go download random apps you find on random websites. Always download apps from the developer's own website/link, not from a 3rd party site. If you want to do torrents, do your research first on proper torrent clients (Transmission is the popular one for macOS). If you really need to visit sketchy websites, learn how to create a virtual machine and do it within the VM. Don't be complacent.

With these mantras, I have never had any viruses anymore. The last virus I remembered was from a floppy disk from a friend, infecting my Windows 98 machine...

 

[countermoon]

I am sorry, but a lot of this is BS.
As posted by numerous people in this thread, you can use a mac with older OS's indefinitely, even PowerPC machines.
It all comes down to safe browsing.
Don't be suckered into the whole 'Tin hat' thing, where you are a prime target with your ultra high powered Mac mini that is host to ultra-sensitive top secret information...... ?

I agree. The need to keep "up to date for security reasons" is so overblown. Malware on the Mac is rare. Everyone's privacy and security needs are different, but most people don't need to keep up with security updates. I certainly wouldn't upgrade my OS or buy a new computer merely for security updates.

The only time I got malware on my PC was in Windows 7 when it came piggybacked onto the 32 bit version of CCCleaner at FileHippo, which is supposed to scan software before offering it for download. I quit using that site and CCCleaner.

Rob Braxman at YouTube recommends avoiding all third party anti-virus software in Windows. He recommends using the built-in Defender.

 

[countermoon]

For security checks, I use Silent Knight, which is free at https://eclecticlight.co/downloads/

 

[theorist9]

I agree. The need to keep "up to date for security reasons" is so overblown. Malware on the Mac is rare. Everyone's privacy and security needs are different, but most people don't need to keep up with security updates. I certainly wouldn't upgrade my OS or buy a new computer merely for security updates.

The only time I got malware on my PC was in Windows 7 when it came piggybacked onto the 32 bit version of CCCleaner at FileHippo, which is supposed to scan software before offering it for download. I quit using that site and CCCleaner.

Rob Braxman at YouTube recommends avoiding all third party anti-virus software in Windows. He recommends using the built-in Defender.

Everything else being equal, it's better to keep your computer up to date. But for those of us who can't (for whatever reason), I'm mostly inclined to agree with what you wrote, particularly since I'm careful with how I use my computer (don't go to sketchy sites, don't click on anything in an email unless I'm sure it's legit [and if the link asks for a password, don't ever do that, period], only download apps from either the App Store or the manufacturer's website, etc.).

But what about the browser issue? If you are sticking with an outdated OS, is it OK to continue to use Safari (which, if you're using an older OS, can no longer be updated)? Some sites I visit no longer work with my outdated version of Safari, so for those I need to use Firefox, Chrome, or Edge (all of which are current). But except for those sites, I continue to use Safari, because I prefer it to the other three.

 

[countermoon]

Frankly, I'm surprised anyone uses Safari. I find it unusable. Plain awful.

The latest version of Firefox works for me. Everything about it is superior to other browsers, esp. the extensions. I use ublock Origin, Privacy Badger, DecentralEyes, and 1Password. I go back to the days of Netscape. The only other browser I would recommend is Brave, but the bookmark handling is inferior to Firefox, among other things. iCab still works. There's also Waterfox, a slim version of Firefox. I've experimented with many other browsers, but I always return to Firefox on Mac, Windows, and Linux.

 

[theorist9]

Frankly, I'm surprised anyone uses Safari. I find it unusable. Plain awful.

The latest version of Firefox works for me. Everything about it is superior to other browsers, esp. the extensions. I use ublock Origin, Privacy Badger, DecentralEyes, and 1Password. I go back to the days of Netscape. The only other browser I would recommend is Brave, but the bookmark handling is inferior to Firefox, among other things. iCab still works. There's also Waterfox, a slim version of Firefox. I've experimented with many other browsers, but I always return to Firefox on Mac, Windows, and Linux.

That doesn't answer the question.

 

[countermoon]

That doesn't answer the question.

Which question?

 

[MarkC426]

Frankly, I'm surprised anyone uses Safari. I find it unusable. Plain awful.

I have absolutely no issues with Safari, personally.
I prefer native Apple software where possible.

 

[Madhatter32]

Everything else being equal, it's better to keep your computer up to date. But for those of us who can't (for whatever reason), I'm mostly inclined to agree with what you wrote, particularly since I'm careful with how I use my computer (don't go to sketchy sites, don't click on anything in an email unless I'm sure it's legit [and if the link asks for a password, don't ever do that, period], only download apps from either the App Store or the manufacturer's website, etc.).

But what about the browser issue? If you are sticking with an outdated OS, is it OK to continue to use Safari (which, if you're using an older OS, can no longer be updated)? Some sites I visit no longer work with my outdated version of Safari, so for those I need to use Firefox, Chrome, or Edge (all of which are current). But except for those sites, I continue to use Safari, because I prefer it to the other three.

I agree with you with regard to updating your computer. It boils down to best practices. A user should follow best practices to be as safe as possible. It is really not an issue of the risk "being overblown."

As for the browser issue, again I agree. It is NOT a good practice to use a browser that is not updated. This exposes the user to risks. All one needs to do is use an updated browser to mitigate the risk. There are many options. Firefox, in my opinion, is a very good suggestion. In fact, I prefer Firefox to Safari anyway so for me it's a no brainer.

 

[theorist9]

That doesn't answer the question.

Which question?

The question I asked in the post to which you responded, about whether, even if OS updates aren't security-critical browser updates are. If you re-read it you'll see it—beginning of the 2nd para. Madhatter32 addressed it in his post.

 

[theorist9]

I agree with you with regard to updating your computer. It boils down to best practices. A user should follow best practices to be as safe as possible. It is really not an issue of the risk "being overblown."

As for the browser issue, again I agree. It is NOT a good practice to use a browser that is not updated. This exposes the user to risks. All one needs to do is use an updated browser to mitigate the risk. There are many options. Firefox, in my opinion, is a very good suggestion. In fact, I prefer Firefox to Safari anyway so for me it's a no brainer.

Others have mentioned this dicotomy as well. But no one has explained why, with good computer practices, OS updates aren't security-critical, but browser updates are. I'd be very interested to hear an explanation, if you or anyone has one.

 

[Madhatter32]

Others have mentioned this dicotomy as well. But no one has explained why, with good computer practices, OS updates aren't security-critical, but browser updates are. I'd be very interested to hear an explanation, if you or anyone has one.

I consider OS updates security critical but some users either cannot upgrade or choose not to do so and use other risk mitigation strategies. One such mitigation technique, among others, is to make sure to use an updated browser. In the past, I have used an out dated OS but I do not do so any longer, and would not do so in the future, as a matter of best practices.

 

[BeautifulWoman_1984]

WOW guys, thank you for all your replies! There is so much great information that I'm still reading through everything that's been posted so I need time to address everything.

In case I didn't mention already, I also have LittleSnitch.

For security checks, I use Silent Knight, which is free at https://eclecticlight.co/downloads/

I'm looking at this and I'm not sure what it does??? ? ? ?