Vision Pro Battery & Power - Questions and Discussion (MERGED)

[AVP_NEWB]

Folks have touched on this, but I thought summarizing it directly might help(I'm dusting off my physics minor here):

3000 mAH means: You can pull 3000 mA out of the battery for one hour, and then it's dead.

The problem is that mA is meaningless without volts.

The amount of usable energy that can be pulled from a battery needs to be measured in watt hours. There's an equation for watts:

Watts = Amps(mA in this case) x Volts (to get from watts to watt hours, you just multiply by the number of hours that the battery can support those amps for. So a 1 volt battery that can support 1 amp for 1 hour, is a one-watt-hour battery. A 1 volt battery that can support 1 amp for 5 hours, is a 5 watt-hour-battery)

As an example:

Let's say a battery (#1) can support 3000 mA for 1 hour at 5 volts. (15 watt hours) A second battery (#2) can support 3000 mA for 1 hour at 10 volts, which supplies twice as much energy (30 watt hours). Conversely, if the voltage goes down: a battery (#3) that goes dead after 3000 mA for 1 hour at 1 volt can only supply 1/5 the energy (3 watt hours) of battery #1.

I know I'm repeating myself: mAH is meaningless without volts. 3000mAH at 120 volts is a lot of power (in this context anyway). 3000mAH at .5 volts is very little power at all. Same mAH, but very different stored energy. If you want to compare the usable energy in different batteries, you have to figure out what the watt hours are.

 

[curnalpanic]

Just an idea that popped up; can you use the AVP battery to charge an iPhone?

Also a tip for anyone interested, there are bicycle lights that charge via USB and double as powerbanks by reversing the direction of charge.

 

[kreasu_]

Just an idea that popped up; can you use the AVP battery to charge an iPhone?

Also a tip for anyone interested, there are bicycle lights that charge via USB and double as powerbanks by reversing the direction of charge.

No I have a spare and the usb c goes one way

 

[AVP_NEWB]

I've only had this thing for ~ 20 hours, but I'm already squarely in the "this is the future of computing" camp on the AVP. The experience is incredible.

However... the battery life definitely leaves much to be desired...

I'm going to be looking for a portable power bank. Clearly it will need significant capacity to keep this thing going for a day at a time. Does anyone have recommendations?

 

[batting1000]

The battery seemed to really drain overnight for me. I charged it to 100% at about 10PM.

Just went to use it a little while ago at 11:30AM and it was around 36%.

I left the cable attached to VP overnight but I was under the impression it would be mostly in a sleep state.

 

[masotime]

The problem is that mA is meaningless without volts.

A layman’s way of thinking about it is to imagine if you have a lake that’s some height above the ground, and there’s a waterfall from the lake that powers a dam / generator.

Intuitively, the higher the lake is from the ground, the more energy the water will have when it falls to the ground.

Charge (mAh) is the amount of water in the lake.

Voltage (V) is the height of the water from the ground.

Most “lakes” (power banks) are at the same height from the ground, so it started becoming common to just list the amount of water (charge) in the lake as a measure of how much energy, but the proper measure of energy must take into account both the amount of water in the lake (Ah) and the height from the ground (V)

 

[bizzy045]

The battery seemed to really drain overnight for me. I charged it to 100% at about 10PM.

Just went to use it a little while ago at 11:30AM and it was around 36%.

I left the cable attached to VP overnight but I was under the impression it would be mostly in a sleep state.

Per Apple, they recommend leaving it plugged in when not in use so it’s always charged when you’re ready to use it. If untouched for 24 hours it will turn totally off.

 

[4sallypat]

Just an idea that popped up; can you use the AVP battery to charge an iPhone?

Also a tip for anyone interested, there are bicycle lights that charge via USB and double as powerbanks by reversing the direction of charge.

Nope, the USB-C port is charge input only.

 

[masotime]

Apple's official instructions to turn off the Vision Pro:

Turn Apple Vision Pro on or off

If your Apple Vision Pro isn’t working as expected, you can try restarting it by turning it off, then turning it back on.

support.apple.com

Do any of the following:

• Press and hold the top button and the Digital Crown, then drag the slider.
• Go to Settings
  > General > Shut Down, then drag the slider.
• Say, “Siri, turn off my Apple Vision Pro.”
• Take off Apple Vision Pro, place it on a secure surface (like a table or desk), then disconnect the power cable from the Audio Strap.

With regards to battery charging speeds, I just realized it's literally written on the bottom of the battery.

• 5-20.3 Volts
• 3.3 Amperes MAX

So this means the maximum input power to the battery is 67W (whether or not it is connected to the AVP) - just make sure any power bank you buy supports 20V input and around 65W-67W output and you're good.

 

[sunny5]

Well, it's too clear that Apple did not want Vision Pro to be charged with 3rd party battery.

 

[Donstil-nl]

Can someone recommend a good battery that can keep the Apple Vision Pro charged?

It's not necessary to recharge frequently; maintaining the Vision Pro battery at a consistent level is also fine.

 

[TLewis]

I'm going to be looking for a portable power bank. Clearly it will need significant capacity to keep this thing going for a day at a time. Does anyone have recommendations?

Any modern USB battery that supports USB power delivery with at least 30W output should work (people have reported that the disconnected AVP battery can use can use up to 60W+, but seems to use only 30W when connected). Anker batteries have become something of a name brand in the USB battery world.

• If you don’t need bells and whistles, this seems to be one of the better buys: https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Portable-Charger-PowerCore-Microsoft/dp/B0B9XHR6BG. Note: while this is a 72Wh battery (the AVP‘s is 35.9Wh), this will not add twice the runtime due to electronic inefficiencies. The battery can also output 65W (be care of cheaper batteries that can only output 20W).
• If you want bells and whistles and money is not a problem, this one is at the FAA limit of 100Wh: https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Portable-Compatible-Charging-Included-dp-B0BYP2F3SG/dp/B0BYP2F3SG/.
• Here is a cheaper 114Wh battery (above the default FAA 100Wh limit but still under the hard 160Wh limit): https://www.amazon.com/30000mah-Baseus-Portable-Charger-Charging/dp/B08JV4W4NY/. Note that you can only take two of these on board, and then only with airline approval. Currently on sale for about $60.

3rd parties on Amazon sell cases for these. Note that all external batteries are heavy.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

Imuto 30W PB 27000 at Amazon

I bought this battery and used it for several hours yesterday. Between the AVP Battery and this battery I got about 5 hours or so. Maybe more. $29.99

 

[4sallypat]

mAH is a unit of charge. It is not a unit of energy.

Please stop using it as a unit of energy, 1AH across devices is not equivalent in terms of energy storage. This is high school physics, it’s incredibly annoying how many people have been duped by marketing to think m(AH) is an accurate way to measure battery capacity.

Correct.

Like my EV that has a 72,000 Watt battery.

 

[A.R.E.A.M.]

Am successful in charging the battery on the avp with the anker prime 27650K battery. Also according to the anker app for this model power bank, based on the mAh of the avp battery, it can charge it just a bit over 5 times with a 100% battery.

the avp battery was plugged up to the goggles for about 8 hours in the puffy bag case in standby, so some battery power was deleted -- i just don't know how much. when i plugged up the power bank to it, it was about 26w going into it.

 

[jb502]

Am successful in charging the battery on the avp with the anker prime 27650K battery. Also according to the anker app for this model power bank, based on the mAh of the avp battery, it can charge it just a bit over 5 times with a 100% battery.

the avp battery was plugged up to the goggles for about 8 hours in the puffy bag case in standby, so some battery power was deleted -- i just don't know how much. when i plugged up the power bank to it, it was about 26w going into it

Am successful in charging the battery on the avp with the anker prime 27650K battery. Also according to the anker app for this model power bank, based on the mAh of the avp battery, it can charge it just a bit over 5 times with a 100% battery.

the avp battery was plugged up to the goggles for about 8 hours in the puffy bag case in standby, so some battery power was deleted -- i just don't know how much. when i plugged up the power bank to it, it was about 26w going into it.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news. It that maker batter will not charge your avp anywhere close to 5 times. Not even 2 times.

 

[sunny5]

It seems Apple intentionally blocked 3rd party battery by using its own port design, set higher voltage+amp, and using 30W charger despite using 3x iPhone batteries.

 

[TLewis]

It seems Apple intentionally blocked 3rd party battery by using its own port design, set higher voltage+amp, and using 30W charger despite using 3x iPhone batteries.

"Intentionally"??

That's barely a speed bump for USB battery makers. I'm sure there are multiple manufacturers planning on making AVP-compatible batteries. The design is likely from Apple trying to lower costs while providing a yank-resistant connector. Why use relatively expensive USB Power Delivery electronics when they're not needed at all? The connector is likely due to not wanting to use an easily-disconnected connector like USB C (but Apple might get in trouble for not providing an emergency breakaway feature with their design).

That "30W" charging is Apple just being cheap again. There's no conspiracy here. Like the ancient (and slow and cheap) 5W chargers that came with ancient iPhones, that 30W charger appears to be the lowest-power charger that Apple can get away with. Please note that the battery can use up to a 60-65W charger. Apple is only providing a 30W charger because it's cheap.

 

[fs454]

It seems Apple intentionally blocked 3rd party battery by using its own port design, set higher voltage+amp, and using 30W charger despite using 3x iPhone batteries.

They didn't do this to "intentionally block" third party batteries. It's much, much better for heat and overall efficiency to use a 11.4v setup (like every single modern MacBook shipped) than to try and make a glorified Anker power bank. Apple is designing the best power system for the Apple Vision Pro, not some modular battery bank for all your random devices. It would have been a sacrifice for this thing to use more common 3.7v setup with voltage boosters. Apple is treating this the same as they treat their internal batteries and you should too.

It's not as simple as calling it "3x iPhone batteries" - in that case, my MacBook Pro 16 uses "6x iPhone batteries" - that's just what batteries look like. They're wiring them in series, not parallel, because they need the voltage. If they had made it a USB-C port on the battery, the battery then has to be designed to work like a regular power bank for other devices, most of which will malfunction when exposed to 11.4 volts. It's not Apple's job to design you a general purpose power bank - it's Apple's job to fold up a MacBook Air M2 battery, retain the exact voltage, and use it for AVP whose specs are very close to the MBA M2.

 

[sunny5]

They didn't do this to "intentionally block" third party batteries. It's much, much better for heat and overall efficiency to use a 11.4v setup (like every single modern MacBook shipped) than to try and make a glorified Anker power bank. Apple is designing the best power system for the Apple Vision Pro, not some modular battery bank for all your random devices. It would have been a sacrifice for this thing to use more common 3.7v setup with voltage boosters. Apple is treating this the same as they treat their internal batteries and you should too.

It's not as simple as calling it "3x iPhone batteries" - in that case, my MacBook Pro 16 uses "6x iPhone batteries" - that's just what batteries look like. They're wiring them in series, not parallel, because they need the voltage. If they had made it a USB-C port on the battery, the battery then has to be designed to work like a regular power bank for other devices, most of which will malfunction when exposed to 11.4 volts. It's not Apple's job to design you a general purpose power bank - it's Apple's job to fold up a MacBook Air M2 battery, retain the exact voltage, and use it for AVP whose specs are very close to the MBA M2. View attachment 2346835

It's just 3x iPhone batteries. Do you know what 3rd party batteries are using? They are using bigger battery cells.

 

[sunny5]

"Intentionally"??

That's barely a speed bump for USB battery makers. I'm sure there are multiple manufacturers planning on making AVP-compatible batteries. The design is likely from Apple trying to lower costs while providing a yank-resistant connector. Why use relatively expensive USB Power Delivery electronics when they're not needed at all? The connector is likely due to not wanting to use an easily-disconnected connector like USB C (but Apple might get in trouble for not providing an emergency breakaway feature with their design).

That "30W" charging is Apple just being cheap again. There's no conspiracy here. Like the ancient (and slow and cheap) 5W chargers that came with ancient iPhones, that 30W charger appears to be the lowest-power charger that Apple can get away with. Please note that the battery can use up to a 60-65W charger. Apple is only providing a 30W charger because it's cheap.

It is intentionally. How come Apple did not use USB-C with lock feature while the battery pack used a lighting port with lock feature? The lock feature is not even new and when I saw it in person, it looks like a normal port that USB-C can easily replace. Beside, it also blocks using way better batteries when VP's power is only 36Wh at $200.

Up to 60~65W is a theoretical power consumption. Even MacBook Pro does not use all 100W.

 

[fs454]

It is intentionally. How come Apple did not use USB-C with lock feature while the battery pack used a lighting port with lock feature? The lock feature is not even new and when I saw it in person, it looks like a normal port that USB-C can easily replace. Beside, it also blocks using way better batteries when VP's power is only 36Wh at $200.

Up to 60~65W is a theoretical power consumption. Even MacBook Pro does not use all 100W.

It's just 3x iPhone batteries. Do you know what 3rd party batteries are using? They are using bigger battery cells.

I can get my MBP to consume over 100W globally pretty easily. Third party power banks are not using 11.4v setups.

And you're right: Apple intentionally did not design a power bank. They designed the best battery for AVP without having to consider the intricacies of making the battery be usable with every random device on the planet. You are not supposed to buy more $200 AVP batteries. You're supposed to plug power in as if it were a MacBook or iPhone.

 

[sunny5]

I can get my MBP to consume over 100W globally pretty easily. Third party power banks are not using 11.4v setups.

And you're right: Apple intentionally did not design a power bank. They designed the best battery for AVP without having to consider the intricacies of making the battery be usable with every random device on the planet. You are not supposed to buy more $200 AVP batteries. You're supposed to plug power in as if it were a MacBook or iPhone.

That because Apple clearly blocked 3rd party by using weird voltage and amps. It's M2 + R1 and it does not consume a lot of power as you can easily charge 30W charger.

Battery is battery and they are way better than what AVP provides. By using a weird voltage and amp does not make it special. There are even 3rd party batteries which can easily charge Max MBP without problems. How come it's difficult to charge AVP then?

 

[TLewis]

How come Apple did not use USB-C with lock feature while the battery pack used a lighting port with lock feature?

Using a standard USB C connector would imply that the port is really a USB C port (never underestimate the stupidity of users). If Apple made it work like a USB C port, that would add unnecessary complexity and cost (going from the battery to the AVP, there is no need for a complicated Power Delivery protocol). If Apple simply used the USB C connector form factor but did not use the USB C electrical connections and protocols, they'd run into the stupid user problem.

Apple had to use some kind of different connector, and they chose to use something that looks like a lightning connector, probably because they're familiar with it.

Up to 60~65W is a theoretical power consumption. Even MacBook Pro does not use all 100W.

It is not a theoretical maximum. People have measured 60+W going from the charger to a disconnected AVP battery. It does not always use 60+W, of course. The amount of drawn power naturally depends upon the battery's charge level.

 

[sunny5]

Using a standard USB C connector would imply that the port is really a USB C port (never underestimate the stupidity of users). If Apple made it work like a USB C port, that would add unnecessary complexity and cost (going from the battery to the AVP, there is no need for a complicated Power Delivery protocol). If Apple simply used the USB C connector form factor but did not use the USB C electrical connections and protocols, they'd run into the stupid user problem.

Apple had to use some kind of different connector, and they chose to use something that looks like a lightning connector, probably because they're familiar with it.

what makes it unnecessary complexity and cost? It's a standard. Making a whole new port is unnecessary complex and cost more. Totally not logical especially since others are using it well. Beside, USB-C already supports up to 100W without problems. Since it can charge Max MBP without problems, how come it's a problem to use while AVP is only 30W to charge.

It is not a theoretical maximum. People have measured 60+W going from the charger to a disconnected AVP battery. It does not always use 60+W, of course. The amount of drawn power naturally depends upon the battery's charge level.

You said it to yourself, it does not always use 60W which is theoretical. I have M1 Max MBP and when I played RE4 at max set up, it only used 50~60W while the computer itself can use up to 100W.