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lkalliance

macrumors 65816
Jul 17, 2015
1,362
4,287
Surprised these OLED display manufacturers aren’t taking PWM seriously, it affects 1 in 10 people.

Is it even possible to make a OLED panel without PWM?

I'm grateful then that I'm one of the 9 in 10. Though I don't know...I'm refreshing MLB Trade Rumors every thirty seconds, hoping to see that the Twins signed Trevor Story, and I think THAT is giving me a headache while using the phone...
 

LFC2020

macrumors P6
Apr 4, 2020
16,874
38,036
Can’t wait until tomorrow. Really looking forward to Touch ID again.

My 13 Pro is getting dumped on eBay tonight. So sick and tired of its size, weight, eyesore from screen, and annoying Face ID.
Available today. 😅

1647549782211.jpeg
 

5105973

Cancelled
Sep 11, 2014
12,132
19,733
Surprised these OLED display manufacturers aren’t taking PWM seriously, it affects 1 in 10 people.

Is it even possible to make a OLED panel without PWM?
Well Samsung’s S22 Ultra has pwm but I find it very easy on the eyes and in fact was reading an ebook on it for about 20 minutes today. And the OLED on my Pixel 3XL was one of the best displays for reading that I have used, besides the one on the iPhone 8 Plus. So I’m not sure what Apple is doing that makes their OLED displays essentially toxic for some of us.

Even my SE 2020 display gave me eye strain and a migraine aura. That might have been from temporal dithering. I don’t really know.

So I’m probably crazy for ordering an SE 2022 just awhile ago. I thought I’d give it another try and return it if it doesn’t work out. My iPhone 11 is my primary phone but I figured I’d trade my XR in while it still holds a pretty good value. If things work out, the SE will be a nice phone for the summer. It will fit better in my small clutch purse and summer outfit pockets.
 

LFC2020

macrumors P6
Apr 4, 2020
16,874
38,036
Well Samsung’s S22 Ultra has pwm but I find it very easy on the eyes and in fact was reading an ebook on it for about 20 minutes today. And the OLED on my Pixel 3XL was one of the best displays for reading that I have used, besides the one on the iPhone 8 Plus. So I’m not sure what Apple is doing that makes their OLED displays essentially toxic for some of us.

Even my SE 2020 display gave me eye strain and a migraine aura. That might have been from temporal dithering. I don’t really know.

So I’m probably crazy for ordering an SE 2022 just awhile ago. I thought I’d give it another try and return it if it doesn’t work out. My iPhone 11 is my primary phone but I figured I’d trade my XR in while it still holds a pretty good value. If things work out, the SE will be a nice phone for the summer. It will fit better in my small clutch purse and summer outfit pockets.
Best of luck mate, hopefully the SE 3 doesn’t give you any headaches. 🙏
 

5105973

Cancelled
Sep 11, 2014
12,132
19,733
Can’t wait until tomorrow. Really looking forward to Touch ID again.

My 13 Pro is getting dumped on eBay tonight. So sick and tired of its size, weight, eyesore from screen, and annoying Face ID.
My 13 Pro didn’t work out for me, either. I did like some of the portraits it took. But ordinary snaps looked really over processed. It has also been nice going back to aluminum frames. The iPhone Pro series is ridiculously heavy.
 

Mega ST

macrumors 6502
Feb 11, 2021
352
499
Europe
I ordered a SE3 (264) yesterday. Delivery Tuesday. I would have gone with and had waited for the 13 but not without touch ID. Now I just get a straightforward replacement for my 6S.
The SE3 feels like a pretty good combination of features at some good price to me.
 

LAKings

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Nov 11, 2020
8
26
🤔

Seriously there is no reason to get the SE3, it’s literally a phone from 2014 for heavens sake with a faster chip

The mini is a beautiful and thoroughly modern and feature rich device

Couldn’t you have just borrowed the extra £200 from a parent or partner or friend, or just saved up for a bit longer.
You bolded the part where I said money is not an issue and then proceeded to suggest ways I save up for the Mini. Is it hard to believe that some of us don't like the notch, Face ID, and actually like the 8/SE design?
 

janeauburn

macrumors 65816
Nov 22, 2015
1,298
2,206
Is it hard to believe that some of us don't like the notch, Face ID, and actually like the 8/SE design?

I often single out the notch, but really it's the whole package of these phones with a notch that adds up to disappointment. The notch is mostly a symbol of all of this badness, in my view, although the notch itself is acceptable only if you learn to unsee it.

But it's the package. The phones have all gotten fatter and heavier with every iteration (insane, it is). They boast of screen real estate, but it's vertical screen real estate, which really isn't very useful if you want to read comfortably on your phone. You need some width, especially if you're older, to be able to see the text well without having just two or three words per line. I'm sorry, but I don't really need to be able to see more lines of the Settings app at one time.

And then Apple went further into stupid territory by making the latest phones with steel and with sharp edges. Just nuts--adding insult to injury. ("But hey, you can now try to shoot feature-length movies!")

When I say "Steve Jobs has definitely left the building," I'm referring to all of these wacky design decisions.

Sure, the Apple devotees will lap up the latest marketing pablum dished out with each new generation. But take a step back, and the notched phones are all exercises in questionable design decisions, resulting in phones that are too heavy, painful to carry in your pants, and suffer from two tradeoffs for every "improvement."

And oh, yeah: "$1600, please"
 
Last edited:

Barbareren

macrumors 6502a
Dec 10, 2020
625
596
Norway & Mexico
Is it hard to believe that some of us don't like the notch, Face ID, and actually like the 8/SE design?
Honestly, I’d answer yes to that question, but to each their own ? Personally, the notch doesn’t bother me at all (I actually like it), and I believe that Face ID is way more convenient. The same goes for the swipe gestures (IMO the home button is completely outdated now). Also, it makes the iPhones stand out from all the plastic Android slobs out there.
/Just my opinion.

I’m still, naively, hoping for a Pro Mini!
 
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5105973

Cancelled
Sep 11, 2014
12,132
19,733
I have grown to like both Face ID and Touch ID. What I can’t stand are in display fingerprint sensors of any kind that I’ve had to use on more recent premium Android phones. They’re very inconsistent and fussy. Originally my Pixel 6 Pro one worked fantastically, albeit only with my left thumb. But now it’s very inconsistent, probably due to winter chapping and dryness. I don’t have the same issues with most capacitive sensors I’ve used.
 

Ac1d 8urn

macrumors 6502
Nov 10, 2020
321
754
Wisconsin
It's so weird how people try to argue personal preferences, as if someone is wrong for liking a different design :rolleyes:

Maybe Apple is just trying to use up a bunch of old parts, or maybe they still make this 'outdated' design because it's a good design and clearly still in demand.

I don't see what's so bad about having choices, no one's forced to buy an SE but it's great that the option is there for people who don't like face ID.
 

Mega ST

macrumors 6502
Feb 11, 2021
352
499
Europe
Touch ID is a practical preference for me as I spend a lot of time in high speed trains where you need to wear a mask permanently. I know about the latest mask software update but I still prefer touch over face and I don't want to "share" my face details if I can avoid it.
 

ian87w

macrumors G3
Feb 22, 2020
8,704
12,636
Indonesia
SE in this size, with the A15 chip, not the design though, take my money right now.

Sammy upcoming mid range phones with another mediocre processor.

View attachment 1974934


View attachment 1974930
But you gotta give it to Samsung pushing IP67 rating to even the A33. Last year, only the A52/A72 got IP67, the A32 didn't.

In the end, it depends on what you're looking for. These Samsung phones win in display (Super AMOLED+). For many people who are not gaming, that makes the experience a lot better than a flagship SoC with smaller LCD screen. The starting storage of 128GB also means a lot for people vs 64GB on iPhone.

The 128GB A53 is around $420 in my country. The 128GB A33 will probably be priced at $350.
Meanwhile, the 64GB SE3 will likely to be sold at close to $600.

For people who are already set to buy something with an Apple logo, they will go with the SE3. But no matter how one sees it, value wise, the Samsung offers more for the money. (larger screen, SAMOLED, larger storage, dual physical SIM slot, more battery, ultra-wide camera). The 4 year Android OS upgrades also helps. Sure that's not as long as Apple's software support, but that beats any other Android out there, especially at the price range.

One reason I went for the iPhone 7+ 2 years ago was because it's the cheapest phone with IP67 rating. At that time, Samsung took our IP rating from their mid-range lineup. Now, the Galaxy A33 is in my wishlist, being the new cheapest IP67 phone. I will probably trade in my Poco X3 (IP53 is no good, my Poco X3 got weird issue just from bit of water and dirt) for the A33.
 

LFC2020

macrumors P6
Apr 4, 2020
16,874
38,036
But you gotta give it to Samsung pushing IP67 rating to even the A33. Last year, only the A52/A72 got IP67, the A32 didn't.

In the end, it depends on what you're looking for. These Samsung phones win in display (Super AMOLED+). For many people who are not gaming, that makes the experience a lot better than a flagship SoC with smaller LCD screen. The starting storage of 128GB also means a lot for people vs 64GB on iPhone.

The 128GB A53 is around $420 in my country. The 128GB A33 will probably be priced at $350.
Meanwhile, the 64GB SE3 will likely to be sold at close to $600.

For people who are already set to buy something with an Apple logo, they will go with the SE3. But no matter how one sees it, value wise, the Samsung offers more for the money. (larger screen, SAMOLED, larger storage, dual physical SIM slot, more battery, ultra-wide camera). The 4 year Android OS upgrades also helps. Sure that's not as long as Apple's software support, but that beats any other Android out there, especially at the price range.

One reason I went for the iPhone 7+ 2 years ago was because it's the cheapest phone with IP67 rating. At that time, Samsung took our IP rating from their mid-range lineup. Now, the Galaxy A33 is in my wishlist, being the new cheapest IP67 phone. I will probably trade in my Poco X3 (IP53 is no good, my Poco X3 got weird issue just from bit of water and dirt) for the A33.

Agree, good points made for both phones.

Unfortunately the A53 won’t be cheap here, Samsung is undercutting the iPhone SE by only $20.

You do get a free pair of buds 2 with the phone.

For a extra $200 you can get a S21.


1647589486029.jpeg



No point in getting a decent low end phone over here, put in a extra $200 if you can and get a decent midrange phone instead.
 

NeonIbis

macrumors regular
Sep 8, 2020
124
90
I went and looked at the new SE today in the Apple store today and took the opportunity to compare it with the 13 Mini (in the new sludge green colour, as it happened), just in case I could persuade myself to give up TouchID for the better camera, etc. I'm definitely getting the SE! I found the lack of home button very annoying; perhaps I would get used to that, but I could barely reach the top corner to open control centre (or whatever it's called that accesses the camera, torch, etc), which I use all the time.

Also, while I've only read about 'PWM' on these forums, I had a hunch I might be affected by it – even using the phone for a short time in store I was getting a feeling like when I'm working at my computer without my glasses on; not so with the new SE I had in the other hand. I could see that the SE display was not as good (colour/contrast/crispness) or as bright, but for looking at emails, news websites, and the odd happy snap it doesn't need to be any better (and I certainly don't want headaches). I also prefer the complete rectangular display of the SE to the 'chunk missing' effect of the notch.

More superficial observations: the starlight colour is very pretty, and the 'naked' phone felt like a high quality, very solid, well made object, slightly different to the 2020 model. I guess that's the different glass.
 

ian87w

macrumors G3
Feb 22, 2020
8,704
12,636
Indonesia
Agree, good points made for both phones.

Unfortunately the A53 won’t be cheap here, Samsung is undercutting the iPhone SE by only $20.

You do get a free pair of buds 2 with the phone.

For a extra $200 you can get a S21.


View attachment 1975672


No point in getting a decent low end phone over here, put in a extra $200 if you can and get a decent midrange phone instead.
Dang that's expensive... ?

I guess we are lucky enough that Samsung have a factory here. Most Samsung phones sold here are assembled locally.
 
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lkalliance

macrumors 65816
Jul 17, 2015
1,362
4,287
I went and looked at the new SE today in the Apple store today and took the opportunity to compare it with the 13 Mini (in the new sludge green colour, as it happened), just in case I could persuade myself to give up TouchID for the better camera, etc. I'm definitely getting the SE! I found the lack of home button very annoying; perhaps I would get used to that, but I could barely reach the top corner to open control centre (or whatever it's called that accesses the camera, torch, etc), which I use all the time.

There is something that I keep forgetting that can mitigate some of the Touch ID woes: backtap. This is a feature not available on the SE; it's only available on the 12 and 13 generations. It's an Accessibility feature that enables you to assign actions to double-tapping or triple-tapping the back of the phone. You can, for example, assign "Home" to a double-tap and "Control Center" to a triple-tap. You can even assign a Shortcut to either, which means anything you can program into a Shortcut you can have a double- or triple-tap away.

This is a feature I usually forget, and when I did my whole comparison between Touch ID and Face ID earlier in this thread I DID forget it! I currently have "Home" assigned to double-tap, which means I no longer need to swipe up to get to home, even from the lock screen. This is not perfect: the target is the entire back of the phone (so, where my index finger is anyway), BUT it's more sensitive towards the middle of the phone than towards the edges. It takes a gentler tap in the middle than the edges. And it's not instantaneous like a swipe or button press is, there's a half second between the tap and the action. But it is something I can invoke without having to be very accurate or to reposition my hand or finger.

You only have two of these (double and triple), so you've got to use them wisely. I like the idea of using it to activate Control Center, but I'm a two-handed user anyway, so I'm going to work with the controls with my opposite hand, so I might as well swipe down with the opposite hand. But I can assign specific controls: I can invoke the camera, or the flashlight, or the TV Remote, for example.

You can also invoke Reachability. Reachability has been around since 2014 or so, whenever the iPhone 6 came out: it's a function that slides the content of the screen (including the title bar) downwards, more in reach of your thumb. On Touch ID phones I think it was a triple-press, or perhaps it was a double-tap. On Face ID phones it's a swipe DOWN off of the bottom edge of the phone (a swipe down anywhere else on the screen invokes Spotlight, it has to be off the bottom to do Reachability), which I find really uncomfortable. BUT I can also assign Reachability to a backtap. I checked it out this morning, and when Reachability brings the top down, it also brings the top swipes down with it: you can then access Control Center with a swipe much closer to your thumb. There is some accuracy involved, but the reach issue will have been at least helped.

Reachability is also available on the iPhone you have now, even on an SE 2016, if you want to play around with it.

Neither of these features is a replacement for Touch ID; both are limited. But both at least partially bridges the gap.

More superficial observations: the starlight colour is very pretty, and the 'naked' phone felt like a high quality, very solid, well made object, slightly different to the 2020 model. I guess that's the different glass.

I was going to counter the suggestion that the SE 2022 should feel more solid than the 2020: how can that be, if they're the same chassis? But the glass! You're right, I bet the glass would contribute to that!
 

NeonIbis

macrumors regular
Sep 8, 2020
124
90
There is something that I keep forgetting that can mitigate some of the Touch ID woes: backtap...
Thank you for the information on Backtap and Reachability! I know about Reachability as I accidentally activate it from time to time, and I've read about Backtap somewhere or other – but I confess I thought it was more like a 'go back to last used function' feature, rather than actually tapping the back of the phone. Good to know, for if/when there is no home button option. But I'm sticking with the good ol' button + swipe up for control centre for now. If I'm quickly turning the torch or camera on I'm almost always using the phone one handed, plus my thumb is dodgy so I don't want to tax it any more...

It's hard to say about the glass – I always have my SE2020 in a case, and it's black not white/starlight – but I do think there was a subtle difference, in a good way. I will evaluate more closely once I pick up the new phone.
 
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