Why are people from suburban areas so unaware of their surroundings?

[AlaskaMoose]

Not to wander into overtly political territory, but: cognitive decline due to Covid infections should really get more study, but as a society we've decided to stick our heads in the sand and ignore the long term effects of the pandemic. I think a lot people's ability to balance risk/reward has been damaged physiologically, whether they're drivers, pedestrians, or cyclists. Also in general we've become a much more selfish and narcissistic culture, where common courtesy is seen as unnecessary or even as a weakness to be exploited.

Another reason for increased pedestrian deaths is the proliferation of ever larger trucks and SUVs that clueless drivers can't control or see out of. I'm over 6 feet tall, and even when I stand near the hood of a contemporary full-sized truck, I feel tiny and very vulnerable.

In general, roads in the US are very, very poorly designed from a safety perspective.

That statement is not necessarily true. Most pedestrians in the cities are killed by smaller cars. But in vehicular crashes the two most popular trucks in the US, Silverado and F-150, have been the most deadly. However, a couple of very popular sedans start at the number 3 most deadly. A lot of deaths include the occupants in the pickup trucks during roll-over accidents. Keep in mind that trucks and some SUVs are popular for off-roading events in difficult terrain. When living near Vermont, Silverado trucks were all over the place (very popular with drivers).

https://www.valuepenguin.com/top-deadliest-vehicles#models

I also don't agree with you about the US roads being "very poorly designed from a safety perspective." I have been in a lot of places around the world Drive in Mexico, Brazil, The Philippines, even Italy, most places in the Middle east...

 

[AlaskaMoose]

I swear it’s like if there’s an event in town they all of a sudden forgot how to run their debit card or forgot how a Walmart works. I just don’t understand it.

Perhaps you are an "observer" from another world, or maybe a Borg who's away from the collective?

This is truly how some of us go about in life: some of us notice in others mostly the things that we dislike, but fail to notice that same things in ourselves, and that some others notice in us the things they dislike.

But some of us go about in life with a mostly positive attitude and are as much polite and helpful toward others. Some of us "live and let others live," and mostly notice in others things that we like, while forgiving the things we dislike.

I just don't understand why anybody should be so concerned about "possibly mistakes" those around us make.

 

[Richard8655]

I think the point of this thread is that suburbanites often live in a different world than urbanites. Though it doesn't apply to everyone, it's somewhat true. The suburb I live in is often referred to as "the bubble" in a funny way.

But that's the nature of people and their environments. There's a comfort level there. Many don't bother to get out to explore or understand other places and areas.

On a similar note, it always surprises me how little many of my compatriots here in the US know about the rest of the world. And it likely affects their attitudes and political views based on false or stereotypical impressions. Maybe just like suburbs and city, one can be just as isolated and uninformed in one's country.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

Technology has made public transit a lot more confusing for infrequent riders. It's great when you use transit every day, but usually a real pain for noobs.

This right here. Each system is different, so it's not being unaware, as much as it's simply having no experience. Because why should I, someone who lives in Pittsburgh, be expected to be knowledgeable about the DC subway system, for example?

I will say though, the Las Vegas Monorail is easily one of the best ticketing systems I've ever used.

Or they have ticket machines, if that's your thing.

Or they even have people at some of the stops, again, if that's your thing.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

On a similar note, it always surprises me how little many of my compatriots here in the US know about the rest of the world

If I lived in Spain, "worldly politics" might be what's going on in France or Morocco, or maybe Italy. But because I live in Pennsylvania, that same distance only covers Ohio, New York, and New Jersey... which I am rather knowledgeable about.

 

[ovbacon]

When I say suburbs, I am not including the downtown areas of these suburbs either.

I live in an urbanized area of a basic city here in the United States. (Phoenix, namely), I live in Downtown Proper. But sheesh, I feel like the suburbs are a brain drain for these people, who can't accomplish basic tasks like using a parking meter, or paying for a train ride.

For example, speaking of paying for the train/buses. We have an app you have to download, it will display a QR code, you scan it prior to every boarding. There are huge letters in the app that says "SCAN BEFORE BOARDING"....guess what? Every time I see one is un-scanned, it's from a suburbanite. (The scan before boarding goes away and the screen turns green after the first scan), They will try everything OTHER than scanning the barcode, like walking past the two little poles with scanners on them that say "Scan Mobile Barcode" on them. Or when getting on a bus, they try to show the QR code to the driver, rather than, seeing the pole in front of you that says "Scan Mobile Barcode" on them. If they buy physical tickets, they don't bother to validate them first by sticking it in the machine, they just think their passes are good after they bought them from the gas station or whatever. Oh let's not forget the ones who tried to buy two passes "one for the train" and "one for the bus"......THEY ARE THE SAME PASS, you would know that if you just turned the thing over. The app accepts Apple Pay, and many of them will try to use Apple Pay directly on the reader, but we don't do that here.

Okay, what if they decide to drive into the city? Surely they can master this right? WRONG. usually they stand there dumbfounded with how to use the credit card parking meter, or try to park and "run in somewhere for 15 minutes", and then have the audacity to get mad when they get a ticket for parking there and not paying the meter. Or when they try to exit one of the prepaid parking garages with signs all over that says to pay before you exit, or use a credit card to exit, they try to feed a machine cash that doesn't accept it at all (Cash users have to take their ticket to a pay station and get it validated). Don't even get me started on how many can't parallel park to save their lives.
Also when you do drive into the city, you can stay parked right there, and take the buses & trains to get around, that way you aren't forced to find a different parking spot each time. When I explain this to some people, they look at me like deer in the headlights.

As pedestrians? It can't be that hard to WALK around right? I mean most were born with this ability! They just don't care about their surroundings at all, and walk against all of the traffic lights right in front cars, not caring who they inconvenience. I don't care if people jaywalk, but FFS if there is a car already there with the green light and the right of way, you let the MF'n car pass through the intersection first! Oh also, if there are light rail/tram tracks in the middle of the road, DON'T STAND IN THE MIDDLE OF THEM!

Even worse is when I see them do it with a baby stroller, angers me to all hell that they just don't care and even put their baby who has no control themselves in danger.

What is it with all of this? Do the suburbs just drain your brain of all common sense? I never would ever want my kids to grow up in the suburbs! If this is how they behave with small little old Phoenix, Arizona, how the hell would they ever do New York City, or London??

/Rant Over.

P.S. If you do have to grow up in the suburbs, please do yourself a favor and try to visit the city more often and familiarize yourself with how things are done. Thanks. At the very least if you are going to ride public transit, visit the transit agency website and do a little reading first.

I grew up in a city and have lived in multiple major cities including Amsterdam, Istanbul, Paris, San Francisco, Oakland and have spend time in many many others and driven a car in many major cities including crazy places like Cairo. I have driven and spend time in tiny towns on the beach, in the mountains and have had to navigate public transit it enormous metropolitans like Jakarta to tiny places in greece and the interesting thing is that everyone in every type of place has an opinion on people from other places behave, drive, act etc etc.... It is such a nonsensical thing to do because it only creates animosity and even hatred.

I now live in a tiny place in the mountains in California and here everyone complains about the "flatlanders" that have no clue how to drive the mountain roads in the sun, rain, blizzard or even understand that driving on a Friday afternoon from the bay Area to Tahoe means you are stuck in traffic and when you looked at google on a wednesday at 3 in the morning and it told you it was going to be 3.5 hours but now you are stuck for 6 and you are mad and cranky and decide to drive off the HW on a small town road to take a dump in someone's front yard.

I live on 35 acres in the mountains close to the rubicon and am very used to driving and navigating crazy dirt roads, crazy windy roads but am starting to be less and less comfortable navigating a bustling city simply because I'm not there that often anymore. Am I irritated when some "city slicker" drive up the mountain road 20 miles an hour and I'm stuck behind them? No I do not care because I rather have people be safe and take their time than do something stupid and we all get into an accident.

I truly do not understand this irritation because we all have grown up and/or live in different places and then there are all the people that grew up in a completely different culture, language and customs so maybe get down off your high horse and have a little bit more compassion for the fact that a city can be very intimidating and probably realize that when in another place you might be the person that "irritates" others even if you think you are doing an amazing job.

/rant over.

P.S. If you grew up in a city, please do us all a favor and don't think you are hot stuff just because you grew up in a city.

 

[eyoungren]

Not to wander into overtly political territory, but: cognitive decline due to Covid infections should really get more study, but as a society we've decided to stick our heads in the sand and ignore the long term effects of the pandemic. I think a lot people's ability to balance risk/reward has been damaged physiologically, whether they're drivers, pedestrians, or cyclists. Also in general we've become a much more selfish and narcissistic culture, where common courtesy is seen as unnecessary or even as a weakness to be exploited.

Another reason for increased pedestrian deaths is the proliferation of ever larger trucks and SUVs that clueless drivers can't control or see out of. I'm over 6 feet tall, and even when I stand near the hood of a contemporary full-sized truck, I feel tiny and very vulnerable.

In general, roads in the US are very, very poorly designed from a safety perspective.

I read an article a few years ago that traced the start of cognitive decline in America back to the introduction of leaded gasoline. Before unleaded gas and emission controls this stuff would have gotten everywhere in the environment. It was an interesting read.

 

[eyoungren]

I grew up in a city and have lived in multiple major cities including Amsterdam, Istanbul, Paris, San Francisco, Oakland and have spend time in many many others and driven a car in many major cities including crazy places like Cairo. I have driven and spend time in tiny towns on the beach, in the mountains and have had to navigate public transit it enormous metropolitans like Jakarta to tiny places in greece and the interesting thing is that everyone in every type of place has an opinion on people from other places behave, drive, act etc etc.... It is such a nonsensical thing to do because it only creates animosity and even hatred.

I now live in a tiny place in the mountains in California and here everyone complains about the "flatlanders" that have no clue how to drive the mountain roads in the sun, rain, blizzard or even understand that driving on a Friday afternoon from the bay Area to Tahoe means you are stuck in traffic and when you looked at google on a wednesday at 3 in the morning and it told you it was going to be 3.5 hours but now you are stuck for 6 and you are mad and cranky and decide to drive off the HW on a small town road to take a dump in someone's front yard.

I live on 35 acres in the mountains close to the rubicon and am very used to driving and navigating crazy dirt roads, crazy windy roads but am starting to be less and less comfortable navigating a bustling city simply because I'm not there that often anymore. Am I irritated when some "city slicker" drive up the mountain road 20 miles an hour and I'm stuck behind them? No I do not care because I rather have people be safe and take their time than do something stupid and we all get into an accident.

I truly do not understand this irritation because we all have grown up and/or live in different places and then there are all the people that grew up in a completely different culture, language and customs so maybe get down off your high horse and have a little bit more compassion for the fact that a city can be very intimidating and probably realize that when in another place you might be the person that "irritates" others even if you think you are doing an amazing job.

/rant over.

P.S. If you grew up in a city, please do us all a favor and don't think you are hot stuff just because you grew up in a city.

I lived rural in Southern California for 20 years because that is where my dad chose to put us. But the city was close. San Bernardino, Redlands, Highland - all places where my friends lived and my schools were. Other friends lived in Forest Falls, which is one of the mountain communities on the way to Big Bear.

So, I had plenty of experience with highway driving, city driving, long rural roads and mountain driving. I easily understand the 'flatlander' talk because I usually got stuck behind those people on the way up and down the mountain to and from Forest Falls. Additionally, I had a job from 1988 to 1990 that required driving everywhere across SoCal to lots of out of the way places.

I'm generally tolerant, but there's a point. If you're a flatlander with a mile long string of cars behind you and you are ignoring every turnout on the way to let people pass then you're being every bit a discourteous driver as people like to complain about.

 

[Silencio]

I read an article a few years ago that traced the start of cognitive decline in America back to the introduction of leaded gasoline. Before unleaded gas and emission controls this stuff would have gotten everywhere in the environment. It was an interesting read.

That might have been Freakonomics, or maybe some other paper or book that came out around the same time. Someone posited that the elimination of leaded gasoline in America was a contributing factor in the reduction in overall crime rates in subsequent decades.

I also recently read a fascinating article about the chemist that came up with leaded gasoline, Thomas Midgley Jr. The guy also did a lot of work with CFCs, so his work alone did incalculable environmental damage. He ended up being killed by one of his own inventions in a rather Kafka-esque way.

Oh, I know there are far worse roads and far worse drivers in the world than there are in the US: I have certainly experienced some of them for myself. For a country as rich and powerful and with so much accrued knowledge and resources, we really should do better.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

That might have been Freakonomics, or maybe some other paper or book that came out around the same time. Someone posited that the elimination of leaded gasoline in America was a contributing factor in the reduction in overall crime rates in subsequent decades.

I also recently read a fascinating article about the chemist that came up with leaded gasoline, Thomas Midgley Jr. The guy also did a lot of work with CFCs, so his work alone did incalculable environmental damage. He ended up being killed by one of his own inventions in a rather Kafka-esque way.

Oh, I know there are far worse roads and far worse drivers in the world than there are in the US: I have certainly experienced some of them for myself. For a country as rich and powerful and with so much accrued knowledge and resources, we really should do better.

What should the US do, pave our roads with gold? There are road signs, traffic lights for both vehicles and pedestrians, marked and lighted crosswalks, lighted roads (where needed), and so on.

The whole thing amounts to money. I don't know which city and State you live at, but the funds for road construction and maintenance should be included in the State and city budgets. The rest of the money is routed by the Federal government to your State from tax payers in other States. If your State or city were to allocate a greater amount of money for road building and maintenance, it means that that your legislators would have take some money out of other state programs in the budget. Everything relates to how much money there is, and where it goes to.

~Disclaimer: nothing I have written above relates to politics, or religion...

 

[eyoungren]

What should the US do, pave our roads with gold? There are road signs, traffic lights for both vehicles and pedestrians, marked and lighted crosswalks, lighted roads (where needed), and so on.

The whole thing amounts to money. I don't know which city and State you live at, but the funds for road construction and maintenance should be included in the State and city budgets. The rest of the money is routed by the Federal government to your State from tax payers in other States. If your State or city were to allocate a greater amount of money for road building and maintenance, it means that that your legislators would have take some money out of other state programs in the budget. Everything relates to how much money there is, and where it goes to.

~Disclaimer: nothing I have written above relates to politics, or religion...

My great, great uncle (who was born in the 1920s) strongly believed that every vehicle should be factory equipped with speed governors set to the national highway speed limit. This is an idea that I have recently heard talk about so he might have been far ahead of his time.

Anyway, he also believed in limits on pay for professional football players and absolutely hated seatbelt laws (he was thrown clear in an accident some time in the early 1940s). My mother and him used to get into yelling matches about her not driving away until he put his seat belt on.

He had an opinion on just about everything, even if you didn't want to hear it.

So take that as you will

 

[AlaskaMoose]

My great, great uncle (who was born in the 1920s) strongly believed that every vehicle should be factory equipped with speed governors set to the national highway speed limit. This is an idea that I have recently heard talk about so he might have been far ahead of his time.

Anyway, he also believed in limits on pay for professional football players and absolutely hated seatbelt laws (he was thrown clear in an accident some time in the early 1940s). My mother and him used to get into yelling matches about her not driving away until he put his seat belt on.

He had an opinion on just about everything, even if you didn't want to hear it.

So take that as you will

Can't argue with that.

The truth is that we blame should not be placed on the roads nor the automobiles we drive, but on us the drivers. In the US the rate of traffic accidents that result in deaths is higher than several countries around the world, but most accidents have nothing to do with road maintenance and construction.

Car Accident Statistics For 2023

Car accidents are a fact of life. In 2020, a total of 35,766 fatal car accidents occurred on roadways across the United States. Another 1,593,390 crashes resulted in injuries and 3,621,681 caused property damage. That means a total of 5,250,837 collisions happened over the course of a single year.[1

www.forbes.com

I remember a few years ago when SUVs became popular, and most news headlines about vehicular accidents and SUV's were written or aired as, "SUV" plows through a crowd," or "SUV kills a pedestrian." The SUVs were being blamed, but not the drivers.

 

[4sallypat]

Don't worry, we're all idiots here in London:

View attachment 2311182

View attachment 2311185

Love this!
Helped us a lot as foreigners.

We were en-route to Athens Greece for a cruise when our final leg of our flight was cancelled at LHR.

Spent an unexpected day in London and loved how we no longer had to purchase an Oyster card for transit - just swiped our NFC enabled phones.

Very nice extended layover in London:

 

[Herdfan]

When I say suburbs, I am not including the downtown areas of these suburbs either.

I live in an urbanized area of a basic city here in the United States. (Phoenix, namely), I live in Downtown Proper. But sheesh, I feel like the suburbs are a brain drain for these people, who can't accomplish basic tasks like using a parking meter, or paying for a train ride.

For example, speaking of paying for the train/buses. We have an app you have to download, it will display a QR code, you scan it prior to every boarding. There are huge letters in the app that says "SCAN BEFORE BOARDING"....

The only time I have ridden the Metro was for the WS. Scanned mine at the station on the way down, but no one scanned anything for the return trip. Didn't matter as I only purchased the Daily pass so it was only good for the day and they got their money for my ride.

 

[appleappleuser]

If I lived in Spain, "worldly politics" might be what's going on in France or Morocco, or maybe Italy. But because I live in Pennsylvania, that same distance only covers Ohio, New York, and New Jersey... which I am rather knowledgeable about.

Ohio? Makes sense. I didn't know TOO much about other states when I lived in Cincinnati.

 

[scorpio vega]

City people are just as bad as Suburban Usually the more loud and overly obnoxious folks

 

[scorpio vega]

I did have one guy a a couple months ago though, when I happened to be in the East Valley. He decided to leave the train and walk across four lanes of traffic. I had a green light and right of way but he insisted on crossing right in front of me. I laid on the horn and when he noticed I wasn't slowing down his entitled self started running. His friends were smarter than him and held back, but they were still standing in the middle of a left turn lane.

You'd hate me because i jaywalk all the time lol.
My motto is "If they hit me, they better be ready to pay' I've seen some jaywalkers get a payout somehow haha

 

[eyoungren]

You'd hate me because i jaywalk all the time lol.
My motto is "If they hit me, they better be ready to pay' I've seen some jaywalkers get a payout somehow haha

I wouldn't hit anyone because ultimately that'd be my fault. But I can let other people know what I think about them.

I'm one of those types of people that believe in self-preservation. If I take the time to use a legal crosswalk and I proceed to cross according to the rules then I have recourse if I'm hit. Because If I am following the rules, then (in a perfect world) the rules protect ME.

Sooner or later. doing that, it may not matter if you get paid. You either won't be around to collect or the loss of something won't be worth what you may get for it.

Also, I'd advise not doing that in Phoenix. Plenty of news stories where the jaywalker got run over, the driver stopped and was never charged. This is Arizona, Maricopa County specifically, where Joe Arpaio was once the Sheriff.

 

[4sallypat]

.....
I'm one of those types of people that believe in self-preservation. If I take the time to use a legal crosswalk and I proceed to cross according to the rules then I have recourse if I'm hit. Because If I am following the rules, then (in a perfect world) the rules protect ME.

Sooner or later. doing that, it may not matter if you get paid. You either won't be around to collect or the loss of something won't be worth what you may get for it.

Also, I'd advise not doing that in Phoenix. Plenty of news stories where the jaywalker got run over, the driver stopped and was never charged. This is Arizona, Maricopa County specifically, where Joe Arpaio was once the Sheriff.

Same here - I believe in following the rules / laws.

But the issue we have recently here in urban Los Angeles county is the change in criminal laws that make scofflaws more prevalent - lots more incidents of hit and run pedestrians have become the norm...

Many of them end up as tragic loss of lives...

Gone are the days of taking responsibility for oneself....

 

[eyoungren]

Same here - I believe in following the rules / laws.

But the issue we have recently here in urban Los Angeles county is the change in criminal laws that make scofflaws more prevalent - lots more incidents of hit and run pedestrians have become the norm...

Many of them end up as tragic loss of lives...

Gone are the days of taking responsibility for oneself....

In a number of places where jaywalking is prevalent out here, the various cities (Phoenix, Glendale, Peoria, Avondale, Tolleson, etc) have installed pedestrian crosswalks with a light between major stoplights. That's cut down a bit, but there are still people who are lazy and choose to cross wherever they feel like.

When I was a kid in the 80s you were always on the lookout for cops before jaywalking - because ticket. Now, the cops are too busy with other things to pay much attention to that anymore.