Other Why does Apple sell us processors they already know are too power hungry to maintain performance?

[Newtons Apple]

If the batteries on those phones were user friendly replaceable we would not be in this conundrum.

No way to make the batteries consumer replaceable and maintain the thinness. Todays phone batteries are "formed" around the components to fill any available space. They need to double the thickness of the phone and give us a whopper battery. That would shut many up for sure!

 

[rawCpoppa]

1). First and foremost, I don't mind having a discussion or conflict on here being cordial, but for the sake of the actual discussion, you refuse to answer any questions that were asked of you in three post(s) now. I don't find that to be conducive to discussion just because you want to project your own viewpoint, which I respect, but you're more off topic then you are being accurate with your own stance.

And it's not a complaint, it's an observation. Threads like these are more than welcome to exist, but that doesn't stop me from interjecting something that I don't believe is based on fact, versus a conjectured theory. Conflation or not, it doesn't make it right or wrong. It makes it something that you don't agree with because it doesn't fit your own narrative. Again, that's conflating. I don't know how else to reiterate that to you.



InCorrect. It's been said many times there are no issues with the thread itself, it's it's the issue that others misconstrued facts for opinions or theories for on speculated hearsay. That is what I'm speaking of. For three different post, that's exactly what I have iterated to you. So I politely suggest you reread what I wrote and even doing so for my original post to another member. Not once has it been stated that it's threads like this cannot exist. So please stop projecting something on your own viewpoint or you're simply ignoring what you don't want to read.



No. No facts are presented other than what I replied to someone else until you started your own viewpoint, then went off on your own tangent speculating something that wasn't accurate. Projected theories hold no value, but they can be openly discussed, just not presented as fact. Significant difference between what you're Posting and actually believing.

What questions of yours have I not addressed? I have addressed those with respect to you complaining and I have also addressed your statements on having issues with Apple. I have also explained how being dismissive of threads like these imply wanting them to end. I am on mobile and cannot multiquote hence the screenshot but I have attempted to address multiple aspects of your posts.

If you do have an issue with facts in this thread maybe you should post them. I have seen you ask users in other threads if they understand the topic of batteries but I’ve never seen you provide details yourself. If you disagree with the op constructive posting might be more helpful here. What about the OP’s questions do you not like from a technical standpoint?

 

[MacDawg]

It’s a legitimate question about the A series processors which I’d like input from other forum members on.

By all means though MacDawg feel free to move along. It’s not like I forced you (or anyone else) to click the thread or you can’t find other threads you enjoy more. Quite a few threads I choose not to respond to as well for that very reason.

It isn't a legitimate question at all

In spite of you saying it is a legitimate question about the A series processors which you would like input on, that isn't the question you asked at all.

In true conspiracy theory form, you make your assumption as a statement as fact.

The problem is that they already know that the last 4 years of processors (iPhone 6, 6s, 7, 8 and X) are too power hungry to maintain performance after a year or so to the point that they need to be throttled or have shutdowns... Seems kind of shady for Apple to be touting how fast your processors are ad nauseum at every keynote event, yet they sell their products to the customers knowing full well ahead of time it won’t actually maintain that level of performance.

In order to engage your real question, which is "Why is this OK", we are expected to agree with your premise, which is bait for Apple apologists to take.

The real ad nauseam here is this is yet another (thinly disguised) conspiracy thread with the premise that Apple is knowingly under-powering their phones and deliberately impacting their performance for as you call it, a shady plot, designed to rally the villagers with pitchforks and torches to storm the gates of Apple shouting "we are mad as hell and we aren't going to take it anymore."

 

[newellj]

So Apple designs the A series processors for the iPhone years ahead of time.

The problem is that they already know that the last 4 years of processors (iPhone 6, 6s, 7, 8 and X) are too power hungry to maintain performance after a year or so to the point that they need to be throttled or have shutdowns.

Why is this ok? Seems kind of shady for Apple to be touting how fast your processors are ad nauseum at every keynote event, yet they sell their products to the customers knowing full well ahead of time it won’t actually maintain that level of performance

Imagine if you bought an electric car and the manufacturer knew ahead of time that the engine was too power hungry and would throttle your engine by up to 50% after the first year

Is this for real? Can you envision a Samsung or Apple ad campaign that features claims about being slower than the competition to maximize your phone's battery life? They sell us what they think we want, and we confirm their guesses by buying them, in droves. And all this hysteria notwithstanding, the overwhelming majority of complaints are based on people looking at synthetic benchmarks, not real world performance.

Moreover, your take on the facts is either dishonest or literally delusional. "50% after the first year" is simply false.

 

[Hal~9000]

I’m generally pretty happy with a lot of the things I can do on my iPhone today compared to the first iPhones I’ve owned... All of which pretty well possible because of the technological improvements over the years, including CPU improvements.

Battery tech is just not at the point where everyone expects them to be, at least in consumer electronics. Not much you can that can be done about that, be it Apple, Samsung, google or whoever.

At the end of the day I guess, when I buy something that is driven by a battery, I generally fully well expect that as a battery is a consumable item, it will eventually need to be replaced.

Thank you for the respectful post dirrndirr. Yeah, it’s frustrating just how much progress we’ve made over the years on almost every single part of the smartphone except one: battery life. I can’t think of a single breakthrough in battery technology all the way from the very first iPhone until today. Like you said it’s probably a good idea to think of it like a consumable item (as much as I don’t like to) sorta like disposable razors that you throw out once full *bleh*

Maybe because they continuously work on battery tech and are hoping for a breakthrough. Can’t let battery tech slow progress on cpu tech. I don’t want an A10 in my iPhone X just because in a year the battery may need replacing. Give me the fast cpu and the option to service my battery.

Thank you for your input rawCpoppa. Its nice to get good perspective on the issue without being put down for having a differing opinion or question, which a lot of other members in the thread seem to have an issue with

It isn't a legitimate question at all

In spite of you saying it is a legitimate question about the A series processors which you would like input on, that isn't the question you asked at all.

In true conspiracy theory form, you make your assumption as a statement as fact.

Whatever. I stand by my original question in (see thread title) and that I would like input from people. The basic facts I referenced are in post #8. Don’t like it? Go elsewhere in a thread that makes you happy...

 

[DaveOP]

That's your opinion, which you're entitled to have just as much as I am with mine.

For me it's not hearsay. Apple has worked on the processors years ahead of time. They have known about the power draw / shutdown issue since the 6s. They started throttling devices since 10.2.1 to mitigate their error of selling us devices with processors which were too power hungry and yet they continue to do so...

You're sold a piece of technology ahead of it's time, that performs extremely well, and it's life can be extended to 4 years for a $79 battery after two years. That seems like an excellent value proposition to me.

 

[Hal~9000]

You're sold a piece of technology ahead of it's time, that performs extremely well, and it's life can be extended to 4 years for a $79 battery after two years. That seems like an excellent value proposition to me.

That’d be a great deal if 4-years of good performance could be guaranteed from a single battery replacement.

What about if it was every 2-years though that you had to replace the battery? Or perhaps even 1? (some 7 users are posting their 1-year old phone is being throttled). Still a good deal then? Or would you rather Apple not clock their processors to ridiculous speeds and instead maybe tone it back to Snapdragon 835, still VERY fast, levels in order to keep from having to throttle like they currently do.

 

[DaveOP]

That’d be a great deal if 4-years of good performance could be guaranteed from a single battery replacement.

What about if it was every 2-years though that you had to replace the battery? Or perhaps even 1? (some 7 users are posting their 1-year old phone is being throttled). Still a good deal then? Or would you rather Apple not clock their processors to ridiculous speeds and instead maybe tone it back to Snapdragon 835, still VERY fast, levels in order to keep from having to throttle like they currently do.

Well, if you get two years out of the initial battery (which most do), and two years out of the replacement, I would say you're more than due for a new phone at the end of that term. Snapdragon chips do not extend the effective life of batteries, I am just coming off a swing of several hundred Galaxy S6 phones that got replaced after 18 months because our sales guys could only get 4-5 hours off the charger before the phones turned off.

I much prefer Apple giving us full performance. Imagine if the root of this story was that Apple was throttling people 100% of the time, in order to extend batteries. I bet the outrage would be far greater than it is now.

 

[Bill91LX]

So Apple designs the A series processors for the iPhone years ahead of time.

The problem is that they already know that the last 4 years of processors (iPhone 6, 6s, 7, 8 and X) are too power hungry to maintain performance after a year or so to the point that they need to be throttled or have shutdowns.

Why is this ok? Seems kind of shady for Apple to be touting how fast your processors are ad nauseum at every keynote event, yet they sell their products to the customers knowing full well ahead of time it won’t actually maintain that level of performance

Imagine if you bought an electric car and the manufacturer knew ahead of time that the engine was too power hungry and would throttle your engine by up to 50% after the first year

I swear some of you just get on here to complain about something. Must be pretty miserable.
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That's your opinion, which you're entitled to have just as much as I am with mine.

For me it's not hearsay. Apple has worked on the processors years ahead of time. They have known about the power draw / shutdown issue since the 6s. They started throttling devices since 10.2.1 to mitigate their error of selling us devices with processors which were too power hungry and yet they continue to do so...

Hal, honest question here....Why don’t you just go get another brand of phone and move along? It seems you have nothing but contempt for Apple, and that’s cool. But why spend your days on forums bitching about it rather than just using something else?

 

[Hal~9000]

Well, if you get two years out of the initial battery (which most do), and two years out of the replacement, I would say you're more than due for a new phone at the end of that term. Snapdragon chips do not extend the effective life of batteries, I am just coming off a swing of several hundred Galaxy S6 phones that got replaced after 18 months because our sales guys could only get 4-5 hours off the charger before the phones turned off.

Not so much that they extend the life of batteries... but so far I don’t know of any evidence that they throttle the phone because the snapdragon 835 uses too much power that the 1-2 year battery can no longer provide. lso haven’t heard of anything such a random shutdowns due to battery wear the way it’s affecting iPhones.

The Snapdragon 835 is still a very fast chip and doesn’t seem to have the issues Apples A series processors do? I’d almost be more inclined to have one of those in an iPhone if I could and forgo the throttling / shutdowns.

I much prefer Apple giving us full performance. Imagine if the root of this story was that Apple was throttling people 100% of the time, in order to extend batteries. I bet the outrage would be far greater than it is now.

Yeah, guess it all depends on how you look at it. There’s always a balance when it comes to power vs endurance. Personally I think I’d rather them throttle back a bit on the A series chips if they can’t really guarantee a non-throttled performance over a 2 year (or longer) period from when you first bought the phone. Sadly their statement lacked any real technical information and instead gave vague / general information that didn’t explain exactly when the throttling kicks in.

 

[DaveOP]

Not so much that they extend the life of batteries... but so far I don’t know of any evidence that they throttle the phone because the snapdragon 835 uses too much power that the 1-2 year battery can no longer provide. lso haven’t heard of anything such a random shutdowns due to battery wear the way it’s affecting iPhones.

The Snapdragon 835 is still a very fast chip and doesn’t seem to have the issues Apples A series processors do? I’d almost be more inclined to have one of those in an iPhone if I could and forgo the throttling / shutdowns.



Yeah, guess it all depends on how you look at it. There’s always a balance when it comes to power vs endurance. Personally I think I’d rather them throttle back a bit on the A series chips if they can’t really guarantee a non-throttled performance over a 2 year (or longer) period from when you first bought the phone. Sadly their statement lacked any real technical information and instead gave vague / general information that didn’t explain exactly when the throttling kicks in.

The Snapdragon 835 is too new to have evidence of this, just like the A10/A11 users are not seeing it yet. Trust me, you don't want a two year old, snapdragon powered device (at least in my experience managing over 1,000 of these devices). The phones we have with Snapdragons all jump off a ledge at 18-24 months, and rather than throttling, the phones just power cycle or turn off. My sales guys would much rather have a slower phone than one that dies after a few hours, or turns off during a call.

 

[Hal~9000]

Hal, honest question here....Why don’t you just go get another brand of phone and move along? It seems you have nothing but contempt for Apple, and that’s cool.

I’ve thought about switching. IMO this was a major lack of transparency by Apple on this throttling issue and over it stinks. For the most part though if I sound pissed off at Apple it’s because I expect better, and know they can deliver it, when it comes to customer service and giving users proper information on the software side of things (absolutely zero complaints on the in-store hardware support).

I’ve had an iPhone since the 3Gs and I’d like to stay... but that doesn’t mean I’m going to not voice my opinion as much as I feel it’s needed if I see one of the most powerful companies in the world start to show cracks in a once great company that might be not valuing its customers as much as it used to, and can once again.

 

[DNichter]

You guys are nuts. This needs to stop. The most irrational group of children I have ever seen.

 

[Bill91LX]

I’ve thought about switching. IMO this was a major lack of transparency by Apple on this throttling issue and over it stinks. For the most part though if I sound pissed off at Apple it’s because I expect better, and know they can deliver it, when it comes to customer service and giving users proper information on the software side of things (absolutely zero complaints on the in-store hardware support).

I’ve had an iPhone since the 3Gs and I’d like to stay... but that doesn’t mean I’m going to not voice my opinion as much as I feel it’s needed if I see one of the most powerful companies in the world start to show cracks in a once great company that might be not valuing its customers as much as it used to, and can once again.

Ok. Fair enough. But why do you expect better and know they can provide it? What has Apple ever done that would set the bar at that level?

It sounds like they’ve disappointed you, and I just don’t understand why anyone would feel disappointed by a large corporation who’s one goal is to make profit - not be totally transparent in everything they do to their customers. The make decisions on a scale that involves millions of consumers. They know they’ll piss off a few, but the vast majority don’t notice or care. That’s the game. You may not like it, but it’s reality.

 

[Treyhunna]

I never said you ended any discussion. However when you speak about threads like this one in that manner you’re essentially being dismissive. You would prefer threads like this one don’t exist. It is in that context I call that a complaint from you which you didn’t deny here:

I perfectly understand that you have no problem with Apple devices or services. You have concerns with threads like this one which I have stated before but you seem to think I’m saying you should have a problem with Apple devices or services directly. No. I’m saying you have a problem with threads like this one and I’m also saying it’s because of the way Apple has operated that threads like this one exist and will continue to exist if they are found to not be forthcoming with the facts you want threads like this one to contain.

what app is this?

 

[Hanson Eigilson]

So Apple designs the A series processors for the iPhone years ahead of time.

The problem is that they already know that the last 4 years of processors (iPhone 6, 6s, 7, 8 and X) are too power hungry to maintain performance after a year or so to the point that they need to be throttled or have shutdowns.

Why is this ok? Seems kind of shady for Apple to be touting how fast your processors are ad nauseum at every keynote event, yet they sell their products to the customers knowing full well ahead of time it won’t actually maintain that level of performance

Imagine if you bought an electric car and the manufacturer knew ahead of time that the engine was too power hungry and would throttle your engine by up to 50% after the first year

the problem is not that the processor is too power hungry at all, not even close, the problem is that the batteries used are not designed to deliver high amperage in bursts over time and it's a trivial problem with a trivial solution seen in many other applications to a much greater degree.

When picking a battery you decide what you want, if it's high amperage and cycle count it's going to cost you an increase in weight and size, up to 30%

I think part of what is making people so angry about the whole thing is that unreliable performance on batteries is usually seen in lower market products and the Iphone is supposed to be an upmarket product, and instead of Apple standing behind it's upmarket product with warrenty battery replacements with they chose to severely hamper performance with no actual notification, which by many is seen as beyond low market and into the land of scams.

Thinness comes at a price, your laptop or mobile didn't simply contain a substantial percentage of mud so that in the new thinner model there is simply less mud, if you slim down a battery but want to maintain the overall cell rating it's going to cost you longevity and burst performance.

 

[OriginalAppleGuy]

The problem with the OP's initial question is an incorrect hypothesis. Apple has made the processors in lower power variants than what they started out with. This, to enable longer usage between charges. See article below:

https://www.macworld.com/article/31...he-a10-fusion-powers-apples-new-iphone-7.html

There are two lower power processors to handle menial tasks and two higher power processors to handle the demand stuff. I believe Apple identified issues with battery management chips located in the batteries and that's why they are creating their own.

 

[newellj]

You guys are nuts. This needs to stop. The most irrational group of children I have ever seen.

Well, correction, really. Child (singular).

 

[tl01]

So Apple designs the A series processors for the iPhone years ahead of time.

The problem is that they already know that the last 4 years of processors (iPhone 6, 6s, 7, 8 and X) are too power hungry to maintain performance after a year or so to the point that they need to be throttled or have shutdowns.

Why is this ok? Seems kind of shady for Apple to be touting how fast your processors are ad nauseum at every keynote event, yet they sell their products to the customers knowing full well ahead of time it won’t actually maintain that level of performance

Imagine if you bought an electric car and the manufacturer knew ahead of time that the engine was too power hungry and would throttle your engine by up to 50% after the first year

Shock! We had an electric car and 1.5 years in to the lease...the dang thing did tnhave enough range left to go to the airport in San Diego. We lived like 20 miles from the airport. The only place husband drove it to was the airport at that point. Husband took Uber or a town car...and we had to continue to make the payments and the manufacturer gave us a useless software update.

 

[BigMcGuire]

I've owned the 4s, 5, 6+, 6s+, and now the 8+. Never had a problem with the 4s, 5, 6+, or my 6s+. My wife, however, did have the bad battery on her 6s+. We'd do Ingress and her phone would shut off, at first, a few times while walking in the park. Then at the end (before we took it in), her phone would reboot 4-5 times while doing ingress in the park.

The question isn't why does Apple sell processors that are too power hungry, the question is, why didn't Apple fix a known issue in some of the 6s and 6s+ phones' battery? They tried with a 6s replacement but my wife's 6s+ obviously had a problem. Apple did diagnostics but told us her battery was "green" even though it only lasted half a day and would shut off with heavy usage.

My 6s+ had no problems (from 100% to 0% even with heavy CPU apps) and the MAJORITY of 6s+/6s users probably didn't either. Doesn't mean there wasn't a problem, because there was - as seen by the 500+ reddit thread, my wife's iPhone 6s+, and Apple finally acknowledging that in the 6, 6s, and 7 models there were batches of bad batteries that would cause the phone to reboot if too much demand was placed, so they downclocked the CPU (horrible horrible decision, even if it did save them millions upon millions imo).


Honestly think that if Apple had implemented this $29 replacement plan earlier when they started having these problems, instead of downclocking the CPU - more people would have been happier and we'd all view Apple in a brighter light. That said, I think Apple finally doing this is great - sure they could have gone further but you don't stay a profitable company by giving away stuff unless you have to.

 

[Hanson Eigilson]

Shock! We had an electric car and 1.5 years in to the lease...the dang thing did tnhave enough range left to go to the airport in San Diego. We lived like 20 miles from the airport. The only place husband drove it to was the airport at that point. Husband took Uber or a town car...and we had to continue to make the payments and the manufacturer gave us a useless software update.

those bastards, what brand and what kind of promises did they make regarding battery performance ?

 

[MyMacintosh]

It's always a conspiracy theory until it gets proven. Apple throttling devices was "conspiracy theory" for the longest too. "Conspiracy theory" got apple apologizing yesterday...

 

[UnifiedMelody]

i rather take fast processors not every freaking year but when the phone calls for it after awhile [3 years usually is how long i take before i change/upgrade. future proofing at its finest. at least battery change is cheap, buying a new phone however isn't.

 

[OriginalAppleGuy]

@BigMcGuire - the 7 isn't included in the software yet. Apple said they would add it later, but that doesn't mean they think they have bad batteries. It means they thought they found a way to allow the device to last longer than it otherwise would without a battery change.

EDIT: Apparently, iOS 11.2 included the 7/7Plus. My bad.

 

[tl01]

those bastards, what brand and what kind of promises did they make regarding battery performance ?

About 100 mike range..freeway driving would be a bit lower especially without brake regeneration. And we were about 4 miles from the freeway...so probably about half the driving was on the freeway. Initially the car was and had 30 miles left after a round trip. But when it would start to blink to plug in immediately we stopped using it to go to the airport. It’s not like a gas car that you can just fill up. Asking someone in the neighborhood if we would charge to get the rest of the way would be pretty embarrassing.