Likely the underlying MacOS might be tweaked to be running more processes in the background as time goes by. Ventura is a lot more search based. Running graphics Metal 3 seems to run a touch busier when monitoring tempts when utilized actively. (FPS is slightly better)I think it is a general thumb rule in the world of technology. Better technology needs better hardware.
You can do that, however you are ignoring the security patches that come with more recent public MacOS updates. Ventura has made the spotlight search that more fast and useful. It not like this belief of slower and slower Intel Mac performance is that great a difference compared to you ignoring any security issues by doing what you are now doing. Ventura is not something that is noticeable slower, more like for you barely noticeable. Plus you need to just make sure you are backing yourself up to an external backup volume in case of some accident. We call that volume a ASR in which migration assistant file transfer completely restores you configuratio.
I have noticed this as well, more with older Macs but still.I'd like it to be a kind discussion. I'm expecting this, but saying just in case.
I have an unpopular and perhaps a little controversial opinion that Apple makes old devices obsolete on purpose. Most people I talk about with about this disagree. Most people think that adding features to software makes it slower. I'm a programmer myself and I know this is not the case. Unless this feature works in the background, it has no impact on performance whatsoever.
It's the same with iOS. When we install new versions, our hardware "naturally" becomes more and more obsolete. Or does it not? What is exactly happening in these new versions that use more resources all the time? I remember that before this "battery saving" (yeah, right) scandal blew up, every iOS version made home screen slower on older iPhones. I've been super suspicious about this, because making UI smooth is easy even in resource-hungry environment. It's just the matter of thread priority and Apple clearly didn't want to do this. And even that's assuming that something else used most resources of older iPhones, which I'm quite sure is not the case at all. Luckily, after the scandal they stopped it and now even a few years old iPhones are smooth on home screens.
I opened this topic as macOS thread, as I'm expecting more professionals here than in the iOS thread.
I feel like there are some thinking pattern traps that allow this to happen. One day I realized that it works like that with any software update. Once it's new and branded as "stability improvements", we feel like our software is super stable. Until there's next one - before we install that one, we feel like our previous one is no longer stable and we have bad quality software. But our software never changed! It's not like it got less stable over time. I hope you guys understand my point, because this shows the thinking patterns about hardware too. Many software requirements don't change, because this software remains the same, yet we are always pressured to replace our hardware, because if the new one is released, our becomes "obsolete". This is insane if you think about it. My favorite example are MacBooks, especially the jump from Intel to Apple Silicon. 16" Intel used to be considered a monster, until Apple Silicon came and 16" Intel became instantly "slow", even though the software we use was still the same.
Is anyone with me on that?
I can guarantee that you are not imagining the slowdown you perceive on your 1st-gen SE. I have an iPhone 6s on iOS 10 and one on iOS 13 and the one on iOS 13 is slow, has keyboard lag, and frequent hiccups.I have also thought a lot about the slow down of computers (iOS, Mac, Windows) in general over the years is a real thing or more an imaginary thing.
If you get used to a faster new computer, the old one which was rocket once seems like a Turtle then - so on the one hand slowdown is a perception thing.
On the other side slowdown is very real, especially the snappiness, boot time, responsiveness,....
A few of my examples:
My iPhone SE 2016 was perfect with iOS 10, everything was so smooth and fast as I remember. Now with 15 it is still great, but everything feels a little sluggish...and sadly I can not downgrade to see if this slowdown is only in my imagination...
But I have an other iPhone which I only updated once - an iPhone 4 with ios5 which I start just every few months out of curiosity. Unbelievable how fast and snappy the UI feels! And how much slower is the Processor/ GPU compared to an iPhone SE 2016 - 10x or 20x ? (and the SE itself is 5x-10x slower than iPhone 14, estimated from geek bench charts)
On Mac the same. My MBP 15 l2013 was turbo fast in 2014. I upgraded rarely, but tried until Mojave, Catalina, Big Sur. I hated the sluggishness which increased every update. So I went back and downgraded to El Capitan, which is snappy and still fun to use and still used by me for some professional video work.
Or an iMac 2009 27 C2D which I use in Target Display Mode - the Boot Time with an SSD on Snow Leopard is incredible - just a few seconds, and SL is so responsive and feels very snappy.
Long story short - I do not think the slowdown is on purpose (or maybe just a little ;-)
If you have more RAM, bigger and faster SSD speed, CPU/ GPU Speed, Internet Speed,....it is always used just for convenience..
All the Devs are developing on fairly new Machines, and when it is fast enough for them and fast enough for the majority of users it then the boss is happy.
Why optimise further and invest energy and money when it is "good enough"?
The update /upgrade cycles get faster and faster and more and more forced ("you have to because of security") - it is sad...
As other users in this thread I will upgrade as less as possible on all devices. macOS every three to five years. iOS one year after first release, or even skip one version if it has a bad reputation....
Never change a running system!
This an urban myth. There are features working in the background being added from time to time, but not often. Also, if these devices are as powerful as they're advertised to be, how come such a relatively lightweight piece of software as an operating system can make it sluggish? Operating systems are complex, but also lightweight in terms of what needs to be running all the time.1) New versions of macOS introduce new features while keeping old features. New features usually require more CPU and RAM usage. That means less CPU and RAM available for normal tasks.
My macbook pro 15 inch from 2017 works better than ever under macOS ventura than it did with high Sierra, Mojave, Big sur.I'd like it to be a kind discussion. I'm expecting this, but saying just in case.
I have an unpopular and perhaps a little controversial opinion that Apple makes old devices obsolete on purpose. Most people I talk about with about this disagree. Most people think that adding features to software makes it slower. I'm a programmer myself and I know this is not the case. Unless this feature works in the background, it has no impact on performance whatsoever.
It's the same with iOS. When we install new versions, our hardware "naturally" becomes more and more obsolete. Or does it not? What is exactly happening in these new versions that use more resources all the time? I remember that before this "battery saving" (yeah, right) scandal blew up, every iOS version made home screen slower on older iPhones. I've been super suspicious about this, because making UI smooth is easy even in resource-hungry environment. It's just the matter of thread priority and Apple clearly didn't want to do this. And even that's assuming that something else used most resources of older iPhones, which I'm quite sure is not the case at all. Luckily, after the scandal they stopped it and now even a few years old iPhones are smooth on home screens.
I opened this topic as macOS thread, as I'm expecting more professionals here than in the iOS thread.
I feel like there are some thinking pattern traps that allow this to happen. One day I realized that it works like that with any software update. Once it's new and branded as "stability improvements", we feel like our software is super stable. Until there's next one - before we install that one, we feel like our previous one is no longer stable and we have bad quality software. But our software never changed! It's not like it got less stable over time. I hope you guys understand my point, because this shows the thinking patterns about hardware too. Many software requirements don't change, because this software remains the same, yet we are always pressured to replace our hardware, because if the new one is released, our becomes "obsolete". This is insane if you think about it. My favorite example are MacBooks, especially the jump from Intel to Apple Silicon. 16" Intel used to be considered a monster, until Apple Silicon came and 16" Intel became instantly "slow", even though the software we use was still the same.
Is anyone with me on that?
User errors exist (too many old apps that have not been updated, not enough storage space, viruses, people not taking care of their devices i.e. dropping/damaging them then blaming it on the new OS instead of their poor care)My evidence is my programming knowledge and my experience with Apple devices. My MacBook Air 2018 got significantly slower version by version. I hear complaints even from i9 owners. And it's been a decline even before Apple Silicon was a thing.
I think this is the key. Apple optimises for the latest devices, both on iOS and MacOS. Therefore, older devices are obliterated.Well, I assume that yardstick for optimizing software performance is generally based around whatever hardware is current generation.
As developers add features and complexities to their code, they tend to polish the performance so that it runs acceptably on current gen hardware
As hardware performance generally increases from generation to generation, then it makes sense that if a user just sits on the same computer, then over the years the software for it will perform slower, if said software is constantly in development.
Software devs eating up hardware performance gains so to speak = later versions of MacOS running slower on older computers than the MacOS it shipped with.
Extending on these:Our usage is not the same right? 5 years ago I wasn't running 3 browsers with 10-20 tabs each, while Parallels ran Windows 11 with VS 2022 compiling a large project and doing a Teams video conference, sharing my screen with 20-30 people at the same time. 10 years ago I wasn't running apps that do half of what they do today. The interconnectivity we have between our devices today would shock my socks off 10 years ago. New features USE more resources.
And some that are both a nicety and helpful:Apple said:Using the Ultra Wide camera, Desk View shows your desk and your face at the same time. It's great for creating DIY videos, showing sketches over FaceTime, and more.
Apple said:Studio light dims the background and illuminates your face, without relying on external lighting. Studio Light is great for difficult lighting situations, like backlit scenes in front of a window.
I think the issue is that Apple is not really deprecating features on older hardware, and it takes a big toll on performance. I'm using an iPad here as an example because I'm facing this exact issue, but it 100% applies to Macs as well.I have an unpopular and perhaps a little controversial opinion that Apple makes old devices obsolete on purpose. Most people I talk about with about this disagree. Most people think that adding features to software makes it slower. I'm a programmer myself and I know this is not the case. Unless this feature works in the background, it has no impact on performance whatsoever.
Show us some evidence to back up the claim. Don't get me wrong, we all know they have done it on other devices in the past but on macOS devices? Not seen any evidence to support that.
Can you record a few second video of it shutting down? I think that would satisfy the parent commenter.Windows on my old Intel MBP is as snappy as Mac OS on my M2 MBA.
And my 2010 MBP on Snow Leapord had the fastest shutdown time of any computer. It literally instantly shut down, even faster than a 16" M1 Max MacBook Pro on the current Mac OS.