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DCBassman

macrumors 6502a
Oct 28, 2021
553
308
West Devon, UK
Having said that, any given machine will slow over time with the same OS on it, just through usage. This is much improved in these days of journalling and SSDs, but a well-used install is *always* slower than a fresh one, on the same hardware. The only way around that is to have a machine so over-powered that you can't slow it down...
 

FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,547
1,993
Having said that, any given machine will slow over time with the same OS on it, just through usage. This is much improved in these days of journalling and SSDs, but a well-used install is *always* slower than a fresh one, on the same hardware. The only way around that is to have a machine so over-powered that you can't slow it down...
I see no difference 7 years later on my 2015 MacBook Pro running OS X El Capitan.
 
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adib

macrumors 6502a
Jun 11, 2010
711
559
Singapore
Having said that, any given machine will slow over time with the same OS on it, just through usage. This is much improved in these days of journalling and SSDs, but a well-used install is *always* slower than a fresh one, on the same hardware. The only way around that is to have a machine so over-powered that you can't slow it down...

Heck, I've been using the same install since 2007 and it hasn't slowed down. I always run Time Machine migration whenever I get a new machine and haven't had a need to do a "fresh install" since I bought my first mac.
 
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DCBassman

macrumors 6502a
Oct 28, 2021
553
308
West Devon, UK
Practically speaking, I concur… but just for the sake of the argument, why would does this happen?
Space is used, more tasks may be routinely happening, software updates to apps and OS use more resources. If, however, nothing changes, then slowdown ought not to occur.
Heck, I've been using the same install since 2007 and it hasn't slowed down. I always run Time Machine migration whenever I get a new machine and haven't had a need to do a "fresh install" since I bought my first mac.
I did say, 'on the same hardware'. Your install hasn't slowed because your hardware power has increased. If you took your install and put it back on that original machine, probably a different story.
 

DCBassman

macrumors 6502a
Oct 28, 2021
553
308
West Devon, UK
They were just making them more annoying because of all the baggage that comes with Intel processors in the way of thermal management.
Because they were designed with the Windows PC market in mind, where there is far less issue with thermal problems, in desktops at least. Where Apple did similar with the Cheesegrater, cooling was well catered for. But good cooling often goes alongside some noise, and in general, Apple seems to favour silence over good thermal management.
 

adib

macrumors 6502a
Jun 11, 2010
711
559
Singapore
I did say, 'on the same hardware'. Your install hasn't slowed because your hardware power has increased. If you took your install and put it back on that original machine, probably a different story.
by implication "on the same hardware" I always use the same install, and it hasn't slowed down.
 

winxmac

macrumors 65816
Sep 1, 2021
1,071
1,285
Launching Disk Utility on Big Sur/Monterey at installation time is very slow compared to launching Disk Utility on Catalina at installation time and older... This is on a 2015 15" MacBook Pro intel core i7 with 16 GB DDR3 RAM...
 

Basic75

macrumors 68000
May 17, 2011
1,992
2,335
Europe
Practically speaking, I concur… but just for the sake of the argument, why would does this happen?
This slow-down doesn't really happen on Linux unless you try, and it hardly happens on macOS unless you install loads of stuff that adds startup items, pretends to be a system optimization utility, or is otherwise crappy.
 

unclemiltie

macrumors regular
May 13, 2021
121
27
It's not being disrespectful. Some people can see the flicker of fluorescent lights, I can't. I used to be able to hear a 16 KHz tone, but not any more. Some people get seasick. I did once, when I was already sick with some Aussie bug from Perth. The rest of the time I was fine. People are not identical.

I doubt I can see the difference at 120 Hz refresh either, but I haven't had the chance to try.
Back when I was in the workstation business at DEC we had a huge debate about changing our large (at the time) monitors from 60 Hz to something faster. The Human Factors team did studies on this very topic.

Now, this was ~40 years ago, but I doubt the human animal and its visual system has changed much. The results were that about 1/3 of the people saw 60 hz flicker and that dropped off fast. at 66hz less than 1% of those tested saw the flicker and when it was pushed up to 72Hz it was less than 0.1%.

However, at the time the cost of doing 72Hz on those "high resolution" (1600x1200) displays was pretty high so we settled on 66hz as a compromise between cost and the ability for people to see.

Somehow I doubt that any significant portion of the population can see refresh at 120hz. But it does make for a good marketing claim, after all we all know that bigger is better right?
 

ChrisA

macrumors G5
Jan 5, 2006
12,601
1,737
Redondo Beach, California
My evidence is my programming knowledge and my experience with Apple devices. My MacBook Air 2018 got significantly slower version by version. I hear complaints even from i9 owners. And it's been a decline even before Apple Silicon was a thing.
I would expect "evidence" to include some measurements (and the resulting numbers) you took that are well enough explained that others could replicate your results.

The reason for perceived changes is that today we expect our computers to do more. The "slow down" is relative to expectations and it is the expectations that change over time.

Of course, I could be proved wrong, if you have some numbers to point to.
 

bearinthetown

macrumors 6502
Original poster
May 5, 2018
286
323
I would expect "evidence" to include some measurements (and the resulting numbers) you took that are well enough explained that others could replicate your results.

The reason for perceived changes is that today we expect our computers to do more. The "slow down" is relative to expectations and it is the expectations that change over time.

Of course, I could be proved wrong, if you have some numbers to point to.
I don't need numbers to decide whether something is laggy or not. It's either instant enough or it's not. No new Apple computer ever lags while it's new.
 
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