Except that guy (from AppleInsider) ONLY polled 24 Apple stores in the east coast. That is small portion of total Apple stores, and he even excludes online returns. He also does not state exact numbers, therefore it is a viewpoint from these stores of a single employee’s experience with the returns they have personally seen.
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Why our AVP returning poll results is so different from Reddit?
- Thread starter AVPKakaka-1
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But that is a small percentage of customers who have purchased an AVP. This website to be real, is for Apple enthusiasts/fans. The majority of the population and Apple customers (AVP included) do not visit this website and often aren’t even familiar with it. Also, there are genuine instances of returns (not lies) of AVP purchases that are posted about on MR.
You mean this article in which they state, “They actually DO NOT KNOW the return rate”??? 🤣🤣🤣🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Apple fans are starting to return their Vision Pros
That 14-day return window is fast approaching.
My bad
www.bloomberg.com
Still - maybe chill a bit over there pal and don't jump the gun
I don't know why you assume it was *that* particular article I was referring to. But regardless - My Bad it was this one from Bloomberg I read this AMYou mean this article in which they state, “They actually DO NOT KNOW the return rate”??? 🤣🤣🤣🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Apple fans are starting to return their Vision Pros
That 14-day return window is fast approaching.www.theverge.com
Why Some of Apple’s Biggest Fans Are Returning Their Vision Pros
The Apple Vision Pro has now been available for two weeks — and some of Apple’s most dedicated customers are returning the device to get back their $3,500. Also: Apple’s longest-serving product designer retires, and the company is making headway on its generative AI push.
www.bloomberg.com
Still - maybe chill a bit over there pal and don't jump the gun
Catch up on your reading. Answered this already:
Why our AVP returning poll results is so different from Reddit?
They say a lot of the online orders, including those for MacBook Pros, tend to be returned to stores. It may be speculation……..only 24 stores, but if you believe much of what’s posted here, those 24 stores would have seen the surge as EVERYONE IS RETURNING THEM BECAUSE THEY SUCK. Right? No...
forums.macrumors.com
Being an Apple fan or not is irrelevant. All the devices had issues, concerns when released including iPhone. iPhone sold just over 1 Million devices in 2007. AVP is no different, it will go through iterations. I don’t think Apple will give up on AVP, they just need to keep updating and fix the concerns. Not sure what you expect from a gen 1 device. iPhone was a glorified iPod that could make calls along with a safari on WiFi. It didn’t have 3G, couldn’t do corporate emails, didn’t have an App Store. Keyboard was a big concern with people not used to touch. I use lot of Apple devices but, I don’t expect Apple to excite me or make me happy. I will use what needs my requirement. If Apple doesn’t offer, no big deal, I just don’t get Apple has to fail for me to make me happy or disappointed.
I hear you. And I included that qualifier because I want Apple to succeed. With time, I know they will.
Ya I’ve been using them since the 80s as well. They can’t win forever. This product is not going to be a win no matter how well it’s made. People don’t want this. It’s a gimmick that does nothing to improve life and furthers the human disconnect that has been increasing since the smartphone.
Nice save. 🤣🤣🤣My bad
I don't know why you assume it was *that* particular article I was referring to. But regardless - My Bad it was this one from Bloomberg I read this AM
Why Some of Apple’s Biggest Fans Are Returning Their Vision Pros
The Apple Vision Pro has now been available for two weeks — and some of Apple’s most dedicated customers are returning the device to get back their $3,500. Also: Apple’s longest-serving product designer retires, and the company is making headway on its generative AI push.
Still - maybe chill a bit over there pal and don't jump the gun
Sorry, my bad. I have a life other than MR and am enjoying my weekend. Enjoy the forums while I enjoy friends and family!Catch up on your reading. Answered this already:
Why our AVP returning poll results is so different from Reddit?
They say a lot of the online orders, including those for MacBook Pros, tend to be returned to stores. It may be speculation……..only 24 stores, but if you believe much of what’s posted here, those 24 stores would have seen the surge as EVERYONE IS RETURNING THEM BECAUSE THEY SUCK. Right? No...
and yet you trust an online poll that makes no effort to limit to actual owners in a negative community 😂
Because such polls have no basis in reality. Duh. They are just clickbait. Take a beginning stat class...
Let's over analyze one absurdly unreliable source (online polls with small sample size and skewed demographics) with another: online forums!
I'm sure it'll be plenty insightful. Coming up in next episode of insights weekly: astrology and stocks!
What is your suspicion? Mine is they are paid plants trying to move early perception as early perception is more prone to manipulation. Humans and bots on a vendetta to form public perception in the forums outward to the greater masses. What doesnt add up is Reddit is also targeted in this regard, and I thought more so as this site might be more under the radar. Then again, if you are getting competent manipulators, you know what and where to do it.
Moreover, I have seen poll manipulation in little traveled sites. Where people tor In with multiple votes to get ”their team” to “win”. Sometimes it’s just pettiness and not paid for. People just want to be petty and force an outcome to their world view and will mess with votes on basically meaningless polls to make their desired outcome appear.
Not to mention many of the polls here are completely slanted in their wording, ie, 4 options of “I hate AVP really really really a lot” down to “I just hate it,” and one option of “I’m ok with it”. The slant of the questions themselves shows the crazy bias itself.
I normally read most techy threads here and started in some of those threads, but they all were so toxic and contrary to my experience I unfollowed them. I suspect others unsubscribed or didn’t bother with those threads as well. I think people here are savvy enough to know when to pull the eject or to avoid such threads, and that ends up leaving a concentration of negative voters to foment in their own stew.
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HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Once again, we all should fully realize that a Vpro buyer doesn't have to live in the thing 24:7 or 16:7. In fact, they can't because the battery life is only up to 2.5 hours. A Vpro is not glued to a buyers head, nor permanently affixed, etc. Owner can decide when to put it on and take it off... such as when they are needing great focus to get something done or just need some "me time" entertainment vs. when they are in a social setting where it makes complete sense to remove Vpro, take off the headphone/buds, remove the sunglasses, put away iPhone/iPad/laptop, etc. All this other tech that tends to grab our complete attention for upwards of hours each day does not necessarily intrude upon our social experiences. Why? Because there is a time to use any such tech and a time to not use it. Owners of any such tech have no trouble of knowing when it makes sense to use it. Some of us seem to imagine that this particular thing almost forces us all to eventually be in "goggles" 16:7. Even iPhone doesn't completely hold anyone's attention 16:7.
Dad shooting kids birthday party is wanting to have a re-playable record of the party. How else can he do it? The "normal" way is to position a phone or tablet between his eyes and his children (a rectangular brick/wall is better???) or the traditional way: hold a camcorder up to an eye and film from about the same positions and focus on capturing great video of the moment. Dad's eyes are just as "covered" with that phone between him and his kids (the kids can't see through the phone) or ONE of Dad's eyes is covered if he's using a camcorder... if not both if he's using the camcorder's screen instead of looking through the eyepiece.
Where's the "creepy" in using an iDevice to capture the party? Where's the outrage in using a camcorder? Or super 8 before that? or 35mm silent before that? If there is to be a long-term (video) capture of important life events, SOMEONE must be the camera-person. And that person is then focused on some tech to try to record the moment as good as they can instead of being as present in the moment with their own pure focus on the moment itself. That "Dad" or "Mom" or "other" makes a bit of a sacrifice in such moments for the benefit of being able to revisit it many times in the future.
I have gathered TONS of home video shot by relatives and myself... some captured long before I was born. There's at least 200-250 videos in this collection. I treasure them greatly, as they bring many long-since-dead loved ones as back to life as possible in ways far superior to a photograph. Family loves to watch them and talk about the "good old days" when <name> was still alive and when <name> did this or that (story). How much of that would exist if someone who was there did not position at least one of their eyes behind a bit of tech to capture it? NONE. Just about every "family video" you've ever enjoyed is able to be enjoyed because someone back then positioned some kind of technology of the day between their eyes and the event to record it. Every movie/TV show we watch & enjoy is able to be watched because LOTS of people positioned themselves behind technology to capture the "live play" on video/film. Ever sit through the credits at the end of a movie? The vast majority of those hundreds of names that scroll by were not at any of the spots where actors acting was caught on film/video. Instead, they work with tech to add/improve/fix something some other "creepy" camera-person captured who was there in person.
When we objectively read about people's take on spatial video, we typically read comments like "more real than any other kind of video I've ever seen" often accompanied with powerful words like "emotional", etc... and then "I can't wait to capture <next trip, event, etc> in spatial." If it is going to become something that can take viewers back to such moments more like being there than anything else (before someone invents a time travel device to actually go back), the value in capturing such video is only going to grow with passage of time. "We" can't see much value in it now because it is so new, but wait 10 years when there will be no coming back from 2034 to capture big moments in 2024 in this way. Baby's first steps can't be recaptured in 2024. Christmas 2024 can't be re-staged in 2034 or 2044. Thanksgiving. Easter. That time we surprised Aunt Helen with that <gift>? Child learning to ride a bicycle? First day in our new home? That big vacation to <somewhere great>? Etc. None of it can be recaptured in the future when we get over our biases about the tech medium doing the capturing.
As my own FAM and I watch videos of loved ones who were lost as early as the 1970s-1980s, we're often watching blurry/pixelated video because, in spite of it being the best that people could capture at the time, is far inferior to 2024 playback screens at 4K today. How great would it be to be able to recapture all such moments with latest/greatest tech at today's or tomorrow's quality/capability!!! It is terribly unfortunate that that is IMPOSSIBLE- whatever quality we have is all we'll ever have of such events. How lucky we are that someone chose to somewhat separate themselves from the event with some kind of tech of the day to capture video we now enjoy over and over all these years later!
If spatial becomes a favorite way to revisit big moments, those who did the "creepy"/"dystopian" thing will ultimately be glad they did... so that the moments they captured can be enjoyed in decades to come in a way that goes beyond what has been possible until now. I don't know if that is "worse" then separating themselves from the scene with a little "wall" in their hands or a bigger camcorder form factor in one hand. But my advice to anyone is always the same: capture every big moment at the best possible quality you can... because there's no coming back later to capture it then. If spatial is superior to any 2D capture now, capture all such moments in spatial. You'll thank yourself a hundred times in the coming decades when what can seem like only little moments now becomes priceless treasures with passage of time.
All that shared, I too am disappointed in this tech for this purpose as I would much rather capture a 360˚ view vs. a bit of a roughly circular patch only out front. Vpro playback would then allow wearer to look all around, up & down like they are a ghost actually at the event and see whatever they want to see... like this...
If you are not familiar with this tech, when the video plays, click-hold down-drag around to look wherever you want to look at this party from "Dad's" vantage point. In Vpro, instead of click & hold, you could just look wherever you want. This requires a different kind of camera tech which sometimes looks like a sphere and captures video all around. "Dad" could potentially wear the sphere camera on top of his head or mount it on a tripod to capture the party. Future Dad & Mom and the Kids and anyone else interested in "re-visiting" that party could then look anywhere around at the party with a device like Vpro.
I'll guess that this will come in a future Vpro evolution. Else, those "Dads" who want to capture big events will buy themselves a great VR360˚ camera for shooting such events and then later enjoy them with tech like future incarnations of Vpro, Oculus, XReal, etc.
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If you're comparing the AVP sub reddit specifically you're going to get a very niche group of vision pro fans who are passionate about the product. It's a different subset than if you are comparing the general apple reddit who have more mixed feelings on the device although a much larger group of people. I wrote a reasonable thread on the AVP sub reddit explaining what I liked and disliked about it but because it was slightly negative (with me explaining why I ultimately returned it because of the weight, comfort, convenience etc) I got downvoted.
Unfortunately the reddit format is conducive to echo chamber thinking, more specifically with the subreddits as they are fans of the device itself.
Unfortunately the reddit format is conducive to echo chamber thinking, more specifically with the subreddits as they are fans of the device itself.
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I think it's safe to assume polls or no polls that the AVP has a high return rate versus other products. How that changes the way Apple develops and/or markets this product in the future remains to be seen.
You underestimate Apple's ability to shape public thinking. The vast majority of consumers rationalize their decisions after the fact; they don't reason themselves into their purchases. Apple is acutely aware of this psychological nuance and leverages it to their advantage.
Apple's marketing has already convinced many here that it's good to have goggles strapped to your head at a child's birthday, selling us on bizarre features like cartoon animations on the front as "your eyes." It's absurd. People here equate this with a pager, phone, or tablet… IT'S STRAPPED TO YOUR FACE! They can't see how weird and creepy this device is to any normal person.
It's all part of the “Crossing the Chasm" concept. The MacRumors forum represents the visionaries and early adopters in the technology adoption lifecycle. Over time, as Apple refines its marketing and technology, we'll see broader adoption, moving beyond these initial groups.