Won’t this replace vision pro for a lot of you?

[Yoms]

This could be a future Apple Vision SE.

Me personally, I don't care about having a computer on my head (i.e. the AVP). I'm totally fine with a headset that is tethered to a computer or an iPad, at the fraction of the cost of the AVP.

 

[Carrotstick]

The Vision Pro was late and hardware wise it’s outdate ie the SoC.
The software is TBD at WWDC.

Overall, I consider this Visor to not be standalone headset. The Vision Pro can do much more than this headset can.

Apple does need to release a cheaper Vision and the Pro model needs to have latest M processor.

The current Vision Pro will be outdated, mainly because it’s bulky. Think iPad to iPad 2, very big hardware improvements. I expect this to come late 2027. Apple released the current one because to improve software and it’s sort of a field test.

Until then I will be watching the software improvements for Vision Pro.

No reputable VR reviewer has used the Visor until then I will keep my reservations.

Bradly is who I consider to be proper VR guy and right now the AVP is ticking his boxes but the one thing the Visor has going for it the price.

 

[Carrotstick]

Also I see some people hyping up a product that hasn’t been tested yet. Wait for reviews.

 

[G5isAlive]

Yea I didn’t get to look until I got off the road. It’s not a subscription, it’s basically a payment plan to subsidize the cost upfront.

Note that this seems to be a market test by Qualcomm, and even here it ends up costing so much to produce that they’re selling it for $1000. These screens are *expensive*.

Yes and no. It is both a payment plan …to get the device, and a subscription plan (in the fine print) if you want to unlock some features like 5 screens versus 3, full resolution versus low…

 

[iZac]

I guess if this Visor can suit your needs is wholly dependent on whether you're typing your message on a computer or just a phone

It seems this product can do screen replacement in an arguably better form factor than the Apple Vision but can't really do the immersive gaming (unless it comes with a light seal?) and Augmented Reality (like apps that do more than just project a screen in space)

the Apple Visons list of priorities are probably:

Augmented Reality
Screen replacement
Immersive gaming (poor/no input system)


What I really want is AVP to properly support Steam VR, Valve knuckles and Lighthouses.

 

[G5isAlive]

Most of the people I’ve heard using vision pro is for screen mirroring and focusing.

Most of people who actually own an AVP talk more about the built in apps than screen mirroring. I think you are confusing what you hear with people who don't own an AVP and criticize it because it doesn't screen mirror their computer in the way they want it too.

Won’t this product be a direct replacement that’s even lighter so you can wear all day?

You are asking me to compare a unicorn in the sky with the work horse I own on the ground. Sure I can look at its marketing material and say it's interesting. And I get it, everyone wants a cheaper AVP, but right now this is what we used to call vaporware because it's all words. But even their marketing material is VERY light on any real details other than it can display 5 monitors from your computer (if you pay extra, 3 is standard) at 4k ish? (if you pay extra subscription fee, otherwise its less) for 30 minutes (standard battery, more if you pay more). But if I take that all on face value, am I interested in being tethered to my computer? Right now I use my AVP 95% of the time untethered, but who knows, maybe for a lot less money I could learn to live with the tether. In the absence of anyone actually having used one, you are assuming a lot about the quality of the display, the pass through, and the experience, all things vital to its success or not.

So I will adopt a wait and see position, for it to actually become available and people actually use it and comment.

Yes, so it will be able to run apps.

There is a huge difference between 'can run apps' and 'will run apps.' No third party apps have been announced. No details on how they would be loaded have been announced. People criticize the AVP for not having killer apps. this has NO apps (except maybe a browser) today.

5 monitors from A computing device, or 5 monitors from a variety of computing devices at once.

If you pay extra, a monthly subscription fee. Otherwise it's 3 monitors. Just saying.

and you kinda need a paid subscription to iCloud for a lot of the AVP feaures, becaue you can't direct-load things like Photos etc... so...?

you 'need' iCloud on the AVP in the same way iCloud makes using an iPhone or a Mac or an iPad easier... but you are wrong when you say it needs to be a paid subscription (free works) and you are just wrong when you say you can't direct load photos. There are a variety of ways to get photos to my AVP that does not involve Apple's iCloud. Starting with emailing and downloading, connecting to any of my other cloud services, or to my own NAS.

Seems to be a tad out of date - I read the screen resolutions last night.

Where? not on the 'manufacturer's' web site. I saw some third party commenting but I can't find the direct reference. Might be there buries somewhere. Just like battery life. Just like how you might connect to it directly. All questions I can't find easy answers to in their marketing material.

It's as available, and real as the AVP was between preview and delivery.

No. I can't find online any third party review of the actual device, plenty of comments on what is claimed, just no usage data. Contrast that to the AVP where on day 1 of its announcement third parties had direct access to at least to confirm it existed. admittedly the reviews were on the light side, but they existed. Before you could even order an AVP third parties had published first hand use information. Contrast that to the vision, where no one has published first hand use data and its been available for pre-order for months now. And they wonder why sales are not looking good. Right now it's vaporware. For sale. Have you pre-ordered yet? I think I will wait until they are actually released before deciding.

Yeah, but i think it covers the most important aspect of AVP: screen mirroring and media consumption and it has dual 4k micro oled.

on paper. no one really knows in actual use.

Go look at the site for the company that makes it - they started as a software FOR headsets, and now they're making their own headset.

Yep. Their existing track record is as an app on Quest 2. And you want to compare that to a company that has been designing and making hardware for decades? They say they are developing eye tracking and then show a test device that looks like it was put together with an erector set. I just can't take it on face value that they will release the device they have put marketing material for... its more a wish list than anything else.

*****

Having said all that when it is actually released I will look forward to seeing what it actually can do and can't do. And I welcome choices in any market.

 

[mattspace]

If you pay extra, a monthly subscription fee. Otherwise it's 3 monitors. Just saying.

And after your subscription (which is effectively just a different way of paying for the hardware) expires, you keep all the features you had in the subscription. It's in the FAQ, if you haven't read it.

And 3 monitors is still more than 1 🤷‍♂️

Yep. Their existing track record is as an app on Quest 2. And you want to compare that to a company that has been designing and making hardware for decades?

And yet endemic faceplate splitting, repeatedly burning down and rebuilding the Apple Watch fundamental UI, having to steal IP from other companies just to make said watch, the long rolling disaster that is the iPad still being lumbered by having started on the wrong tech tree of a cellphone, rather than a computer, literally every product they make these days being more like the products their competitors were selling when they launched than their own original visions...

It took until the iPad Pro and Pencil for Apple to get what a tablet computer is supposed to be, same with the Watch (remember they thought couples sharing heartbeats was going to be a huge thing) so I'm assuming with the AVP they're going to do a similar thing, make a fundamental miscalculation on what's actually important, and over-focus on the wrong aspects of the product.

Having said all that when it is actually released I will look forward to seeing what it actually can do and can't do. And I welcome choices in any market.

It will be interesting to see if it succeeds, my suspicion is this is the early indicator that above AVP resolution and quality optics is about to become commoditised, and table stakes. I'd be willing to bet that more people would rather have a lightweight headset, that wirelessly tethers to a mac mini size device, than want a bulkier headset that's self-contained.

 

[G5isAlive]

And after your subscription (which is effectively just a different way of paying for the hardware) expires, you keep all the features you had in the subscription. It's in the FAQ, if you haven't read it.

And 3 monitors is still more than 1 🤷‍♂️

I did read the faq. You are confusing their hardware subscription with their software subscription read further. And I have had up to 10 screens up on my avp. It’s not limited to 1, except 1 Mac screen. I can run multiple screens now of word, safari, etc etc.

And yet endemic faceplate splitting, repeatedly burning down and rebuilding the Apple Watch fundamental UI, having to steal IP from other companies just to make said watch, the long rolling disaster that is the iPad still being lumbered by having started on the wrong tech tree of a cellphone, rather than a computer, literally every product they make these days being more like the products their competitors were selling when they launched than their own original visions...

All in your opinion. My opinion differs. Yet at least you can form an opinion on a track record. No track record for the visor.

 

[G5isAlive]

I'd be willing to bet that more people would rather have a lightweight headset, that wirelessly tethers to a mac mini size device, than want a bulkier headset that's self-contained

And I’d be willing to bet more people would rather buy a product they can actually own today versus a product no one has actually used and written a review on with no release date. Have you ordered one yet?

Right now it’s vaporware. Interesting vaporware I give you that. Real debate to compare devices can start when real people own one. Until then we are just debating what’s on our wish list for what price.

To me the devil is always in the details. We may not all like the AVP, but we know the details.

 

[OriginalAppleGuy]

Seems to be a tad out of date - I read the screen resolutions last night.



Which has a lifetime once-off offer if you buy the founder's model... and you kinda need a paid subscription to iCloud for a lot of the AVP feaures, becaue you can't direct-load things like Photos etc... so...?



Yes, so it will be able to run apps.



Immersed: https://immersed.com



5 monitors from A computing device, or 5 monitors from a variety of computing devices at once.

Also, it's collaborative work spaces, groupware whiteboarding etc.

The AVP is a lightweight duty paradigm, shipping in heavyweight goggles.

This system seems to be a lightweight duty paradigm, shipping in lightweight goggles.

The fundamental problem with the AVP, in my opinion, is that it can't go high end enough in its utility (because it's only iPad hardware), to justify the weight and bulk which matches that of heavyweight duty wired or wireless tethered headsets.




In the same way the AVP is effectively bound to a single user.



Do you think Apple is selling enough AVPs to have covered the R&D and manfacturing costs for it? Or, is the rest of the company subsidising it, so does the AVP have a viable business plan on its own? Visor is hardware from a company that is presumably already successfully selling a software platform that they were offering on other companies' hardware.

The really interesting thing, is these are a better pairing with a Mac, than an AVP is. I imagine just like the iPad today is more like the Surface that existed when the iPad launched, than it's like the original iPad, AVP will end up being more like this than it's like itself today.

Went to the immersed site. It's why i said what I said.

The AVP can be used by multiple people, the Visor device can't. There's a guest mode with the VP or you can give someone you trust your code and they can get in to it. They will be limited to those things that don't need iris scanning. At least for now. This can change with software. The limiting factor on the Visor is how it's designed for your face. The pancake lenses can't move back and forth to fit different eye distances. It's truly molded to your eyes and face. If you wanted to sell it, you can't.

I saw where you can buy the "founders" edition - limited to 20K devices. It's not a lifetime "membership". You are only buying a year or two (if you choose) "membership". No matter what, you are and will be stuck in a membership type deal. With the AVP, what you pay for with additional iCloud charges is a service that can be used with many devices, including family members. You get a LOT more for your money. Storage is only one thing and there is a free tier.

An interesting thing about shipping. Both versions say they are going to ship mid 2024, yet the founder's edition is supposed to ship 6 months prior to the 4K. So both can't ship mid year. That's what I mean by inconsistent messaging. There's a lot of that on their page and I'm not buying what they are selling until it can be verified.

Another consideration between the two is Apple has stores with a few close to me. If I have issues with my device, I can easily go to one and get it fixed, replaced, etc. There's also a proven support program with Apple whereas the Visor is from a company with an unproven track record.

The AVP is still a LOT more to me than this Visor. It's not something I'd consider as a replacement. Wouldn't recommend anyone else to consider it one either.

 

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

Most of the people I’ve heard using vision pro is for screen mirroring and focusing.

Visor

With Visor, bring 4K OLED displays everywhere you go. No more physical monitors. Visor is portable, sleek, and lighter than a smartphone. It fits in the palm of your hand or in your bag. Compatible with Windows, Mac, and Linux. Pre-order today. Ships 2024.

www.visor.com

Won’t this product be a direct replacement that’s even lighter so you can wear all day?

I don't care to look into this specific device.

But I'm very confident that most of what the average consumer wants out of AVP is something that simply offers a portable, comfortable and affordable AR/VR-esque experience that lets you easily "plug-in" and mirror the display outputs of your various devices.

The portability, comfort and quality of the displays would be what matters most, and the whole market-leading eye and hand tracking for a completely hands-free experience would be secondary.

Just mirroring your devices onto a huge, bright virtual display, or just a single device, like your laptop, and letting you operate them with a physical trackpad, or keyboard, mouse, etc., would be a winner. Especially considering how much weight that would take off the device and make it more comfortable to wear.

I actually think these AVP "knock-offs" will suddenly surge in popularity to the point where Apple is forced to do a >$1500 version of AVP unless it wants to lose too much of the market to competitors.

More and more content consumption, on increasingly bigger and brighter displays is what most consumers want. And if it can be done at a fraction of what Apple is asking for AVP then there's no way its $3499 product can win.

Too good to be true at just $399 and from some unknown startup.

But at almost 10x less than AVP, I think people would be willing to accept a lot of compromises. Especially since most of us haven't tested out AVP irl and have no reference or even just basic grasp of what would make Apple's headset worth $3499.

 

[mattspace]

I did read the faq. You are confusing their hardware subscription with their software subscription read further. And I have had up to 10 screens up on my avp. It’s not limited to 1, except 1 Mac screen. I can run multiple screens now of word, safari, etc etc.

Q: What happens to Visors after they pay their first membership term in full, if they decide not to renew?

A: They will maintain the same feature set that was included with their original device (5+ screens, ultrawide resolutions, offline mode, public co-working in the Immersed app)

The device keeps its full compliment of screens and functions with you paying no more money to the company. Plain and simple. You stop paying, you keep all 5 screens.

The continuing subscription is for the collaborative "spaces"... which sound like avatar chatrooms.

You're conflating "screens" with App windows. You're run 10 app windows on the AVP, not 10 screens. Two instances of word precessing documents is not the equivalent of 2 virtual screens, each of which could have several different documents open in them at once.

 

[G5isAlive]

The device keeps its full compliment of screens and functions with you paying no more money to the company. Plain and simple. You stop paying, you keep all 5 screens.

" Immersed has a free tier that matches or exceeds competing virtual desktop apps. For those that want more, a $5 monthly subscription unlocks two additional screens, higher resolutions, and eight more collaborators.

An enterprise tier adds device management, user access management dashboards, collaboration, presenter mode, virtual headquarters, and other features that individuals don't need. This is where the bulk of Immersed's revenue is made."

Immersed Visor: Is the VR headset real or not?

Immersed's Visor sounds almost too good to be true, so we dug deep to find out if it's a real product.

mixed-news.com

You're conflating "screens" with App windows. You're run 10 app windows on the AVP, not 10 screens. Two instances of word precessing documents is not the equivalent of 2 virtual screens, each of which could have several different documents open in them at once.

You're being pedantic. The point is productivity. The purpose of any screen is to display information from an App. On an AVP you are not limited to a screen with small windows, you can have as many large windows as you want. Information still being presented. Given the choice of cramming small windows into 'screens' I prefer the freedom of those windows being separate and any where I chose to place them. I see no productivity benefit to what you describe, so if we stick to the original question about the vaporware visor replacing my AVP, this does not sell me.

 

[laptech]

Checking out other websites that have done a review of the company and the headset it would appear that the product has not been 100% finalized meaning it's release date could be pushed back to 2025 if problems are found. It therefore put's into question the issue of preorders because we have all seen this type of thing before, only prototypes exist, there has been no external review of the product, site puts up page for pre-orders and then the product get's delayed and more delayed due to ongoing technical problems with the product. People would be foolish to place a preorder on a product that only exists in prototype form, no finalized product built, no external reviews and no actual release date.

 

[NT1440]

Checking out other websites that have done a review of the company and the headset it would appear that the product has not been 100% finalized meaning it's release date could be pushed back to 2025 if problems are found. It therefore put's into question the issue of preorders because we have all seen this type of thing before, only prototypes exist, there has been no external review of the product, site puts up page for pre-orders and then the product get's delayed and more delayed due to ongoing technical problems with the product. People would be foolish to place a preorder on a product that only exists in prototype form, no finalized product built, no external reviews and no actual release date.

Honestly it seems like they’ve partnered with Qualcomm to release its testbed platform for their XR chip under a consumer branding (rather than Qualcomm). A market experiment that lets Qualcomm avoid saying “here is *our* answer to the AVP”. 🤷‍♂️

 

[laptech]

Honestly it seems like they’ve partnered with Qualcomm to release its testbed platform for their XR chip under a consumer branding (rather than Qualcomm). A market experiment that lets Qualcomm avoid saying “here is *our* answer to the AVP”. 🤷‍♂️

A case of, if it fails the other company takes the blame as it's not being made under the Qualcomm brand name but if it succeeds then it becomes a Qualcomm success.

 

[mattspace]

" Immersed has a free tier that matches or exceeds competing virtual desktop apps. For those that want more, a $5 monthly subscription unlocks two additional screens, higher resolutions, and eight more collaborators.

An enterprise tier adds device management, user access management dashboards, collaboration, presenter mode, virtual headquarters, and other features that individuals don't need. This is where the bulk of Immersed's revenue is made."

Immersed Visor: Is the VR headset real or not?

Immersed's Visor sounds almost too good to be true, so we dug deep to find out if it's a real product.

mixed-news.com

It's. Literally. Written. On. Their. Website.

You're being pedantic. The point is productivity.

I would suggest 5 standard desktop computers, with proper hierarchical menubars, on which multiple applications can exist on each, are a more productive workspace, than a bunch of iPads floating in space, where you play braille-a-guess as to where each rando developer has decided to put UI elements.

 

[OriginalAppleGuy]

View attachment 2366669

It's. Literally. Written. On. Their. Website.



I would suggest 5 standard desktop computers, with proper hierarchical menubars, on which multiple applications can exist on each, are a more productive workspace, than a bunch of iPads floating in space, where you play brail-a-guess as to where each rando developer has decided to put UI elements.

Based on those remarks, you haven’t used the VP. And I’ve only seen where the Visor can provide 5 screens of a certain size. Not that it can actually connect to 5 different computers. Talk about processing and transceivers needed to do that!

 

[NT1440]

View attachment 2366669

It's. Literally. Written. On. Their. Website.



I would suggest 5 standard desktop computers, with proper hierarchical menubars, on which multiple applications can exist on each, are a more productive workspace, than a bunch of iPads floating in space, where you play braille-a-guess as to where each rando developer has decided to put UI elements.

You mean 5 RDP sessions open in different windows?

There’s no hardware reason the AVP couldn’t do that provided a Remote Desktop app is made available by a dev or Microsoft. 🤷‍♂️

Currently we haven’t seen Visor do anything yet, because it’s an unreleased product.

 

[mattspace]

You mean 5 RDP sessions open in different windows?

When an AVP connects to a Mac to let you see a Mac's desktop, you get to experience a Mac with a single display. Presuming this works the way they've described it, it would be as if your Mac had 5 displays attached, and they were all virtualised into the glasses view.

Granted, most Macs can't support more than 4 dispays (M2 Ultra, and Intel Mac Pros excepted - important point of difference, this supports Intel systems for virtual desktops)

There’s no hardware reason the AVP couldn’t do that provided a Remote Desktop app is made available by a dev or Microsoft. 🤷‍♂️

If the AVP was capable of virtualising more than one display from a single Mac, it would.

Currently we haven’t seen Visor do anything yet, because it’s an unreleased product.

True, that's why all I'm going on is the company's actual statements on their website.

They'r obviously not going to be the same devices. This looks to be a different take on the the same sort of result, but it doesnt do things a Mac user wouldn't care about - it's more a peripheral for a computer, than a standalone device. Which I would argue is a better paradigm.

 

[NT1440]

When an AVP connects to a Mac to let you see a Mac's desktop, you get to experience a Mac with a single display. Presuming this works the way they've described it, it would be as if your Mac had 5 displays attached, and they were all virtualised into the glasses view.

Granted, most Macs can't support more than 4 dispays (M2 Ultra, and Intel Mac Pros excepted - important point of difference, this supports Intel systems for virtual desktops)



If the AVP was capable of virtualising more than one display from a single Mac, it would.


True, that's why all I'm going on is the company's actual statements on their website.

They'r obviously not going to be the same devices. This looks to be a different take on the the same sort of result, but it doesnt do things a Mac user wouldn't care about - it's more a peripheral for a computer, than a standalone device. Which I would argue is a better paradigm.

I think you nailed it with the distinction of peripheral vs standalone device.

I don’t think either approach is “better”, I just use the tools that are right for the job. That’s why I reach for an iPad when going through documentation rather than just having it on my screen from my computer 🤷‍♂️

 

[mattspace]

Based on those remarks, you haven’t used the VP. And I’ve only seen where the Visor can provide 5 screens of a certain size. Not that it can actually connect to 5 different computers. Talk about processing and transceivers needed to do that!

Apple Vision Pro vs Immersed Visor:

What is the best AR/VR device for you?

medium.com

"With Visor, you’re not limited to a single mirrored screen; instead, you enjoy the flexibility of 5+ 4K screens. Those screens can come from your computer, phone, and tablet."

The use of and reads like they're describing multiple device connecting to the Visor at once, but that may be a misuse of language. If it only connects to a single device at a time, or would be the correct language.

 

[mattspace]

I think you nailed it with the distinction of peripheral vs standalone device.

I don’t think either approach is “better”, I just use the tools that are right for the job. That’s why I reach for an iPad when going through documentation rather than just having it on my screen from my computer 🤷‍♂️

Right, but when you want to use the iPad's unique I/O features - the drawing surface - to interact with your computer, and all its resources, you "plug it in" and it becomes a peripheral, not a standalone device. Which is something the AVP can't do. You can't run a 3D environment on your Mac's "big" GPU and just have the AVP be a display / sensor headset, the way headsets like the Vive XR Elite, Pimax Crystal, and theoretically the Visor will when tethered.

 

[NT1440]

Right, but when you want to use the iPad's unique I/O features - the drawing surface - to interact with your computer, and all its resources, you "plug it in" and it becomes a peripheral, not a standalone device. Which is something the AVP can't do. You can't run a 3D environment on your Mac's "big" GPU and just have the AVP be a display / sensor headset, the way headsets like the Vive XR Elite, Pimax Crystal, and theoretically the Visor will when tethered.

Well yea, one is a spatial computer, the other is a modified display paradigm.

Different ideas altogether, with some feature overlap.

 

[mattspace]

Well yea, one is a spatial computer, the other is a modified display paradigm.

Different ideas altogether, with some feature overlap.

Yup, and getting back to the original post of this thread - if most people using the AVP are essentially using it as a remote desktop tool for accessing a Mac, a headset that costs a third as much, does that remote desktop stuff better, and is a peripheral for their existing devices, might be a better paradigm for the majority of Apple customers. As opposed to convincing them they need to spend 2-3 times as much on a whole extra standalone device, that doesn't do connecting to their existing devices as well.