Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,308
24,039
Gotta be in it to win it
I never worry about battery life and I don’t want a heavier phone because of the batteries. Under idea conditions my phone lasts a day. Under not so ideal conditions it doesn’t. As the saying goes: I use my phone like I stole it. I have a battery pack with me when I know I won’t be near a charging station for a day.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigMcGuire

BigMcGuire

Cancelled
Jan 10, 2012
9,832
14,025
I never worry about battery life and I don’t want a heavier phone because of the batteries. Under idea conditions my phone lasts a day. Under not so ideal conditions it doesn’t. As the saying goes: I use my phone like I stole it. I have a battery pack with me when I know I won’t be near a charging station for a day.
Yep. I work at home. I have a 14 Pro Max. I use on average 20% of my iPhone's battery per day. I could easily get 5 days if I wanted.

That and I'm always next to an outlet, and yeah, I've got a few batteries, lol.

That said, I went to a 14 Pro and missed the battery life immediately. But I'm a bit nuts when it comes to batteries.
 

Aston441

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Sep 16, 2014
2,606
3,934
I wonder how much bigger an iPhone battery would have to be to be a LifeP04 battery - like we're seeing in some of these generator replacement batteries. 10 year life cycles, can sit at 100% without loss to capacity, etc. Then, leaving your phone plugged in when at home wouldn't be a bad thing and you could easily use your phone for 5 years. Imagine the reduction in e-waste that would be.

I am no expert but I understand that Lithium Iron Phosphate Batteries are quite bigger for the same output as what we've got now.
I'm going to guess the iron makes them heavier, but I don't know. I'd take the tradeoff.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigMcGuire

FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,480
1,937
I wonder how much bigger an iPhone battery would have to be to be a LifeP04 battery - like we're seeing in some of these generator replacement batteries. 10 year life cycles, can sit at 100% without loss to capacity, etc. Then, leaving your phone plugged in when at home wouldn't be a bad thing and you could easily use your phone for 5 years. Imagine the reduction in e-waste that would be.

I am no expert but I understand that Lithium Iron Phosphate Batteries are quite bigger for the same output as what we've got now.
The lack of longevity is solely due to iOS updates though, not battery technology.

If users kept their original iOS version, a current iPhone would be totally usable battery life-wise in 5 years.
 

BigMcGuire

Cancelled
Jan 10, 2012
9,832
14,025
The lack of longevity is solely due to iOS updates though, not battery technology.

If users kept their original iOS version, a current iPhone would be totally usable battery life-wise in 5 years.
If I happened to buy 2 100% identical iPhones (for sake of argument) and use them for 5 years identically, but one I always updated the iOS software and the other I did not - I would expect less run time on the phone that has the latest software. But even after 5 years of perfect handling, the battery should be noticeably degraded. We pay a big price for thin batteries. The difference between the two phones, I might put at a 10-15% difference (educated guess). I imagine your prediction would be a higher %?


My point was:

Apple's own lithium ion batteries (lithium-ion polymer for the iPhone) - are guaranteed to hold 80% capacity for 500 cycles or 1 years (2 years if AppleCare+). https://www.apple.com/batteries/service-and-recycling/

Lithium Iron Phosphate Batteries can do 10,000 cycles and maintain 80%+ capacity and are not harmed by storing at 100% charge for long periods of time. https://www.howtogeek.com/822326/what-are-lifepo4-batteries/ - Hence the 10 year lifespan for these things.
 

Motionblurrr

macrumors 65816
Jul 1, 2008
1,303
1,622
Hell no. If anything, I really miss the 6 Plus days of thinness. It was razor thing and completely made of aluminum. It felt like a thin MacBook in my hand
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigMcGuire

FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,480
1,937
If I happened to buy 2 100% identical iPhones (for sake of argument) and use them for 5 years identically, but one I always updated the iOS software and the other I did not - I would expect less run time on the phone that has the latest software. But even after 5 years of perfect handling, the battery should be noticeably degraded. We pay a big price for thin batteries. The difference between the two phones, I might put at a 10-15% difference (educated guess). I imagine your prediction would be a higher %?
Assuming a moderate user at 1 full cycle every 2 days, so around 900 cycles, and allowing myself to include two battery care points:
-Avoid extreme heat
-Charge with a 5w charger

I’d say the updated iPhone should be at 30-40% the battery life of the non-updated one, so a 60% reduction. Too high? Just see the numbers that older, updated iPhone users report with degraded batteries. They’re unusable. Meanwhile, I’m here with my 1400 cycles, 7-year-old iPhone 6s with 63% health and the runtime loss is negligible. Why? I’m running iOS 10.


My point was:

Apple's own lithium ion batteries (lithium-ion polymer for the iPhone) - are guaranteed to hold 80% capacity for 500 cycles or 1 years (2 years if AppleCare+). https://www.apple.com/batteries/service-and-recycling/
Agreed, but in my experience, just by charging slow and avoiding heat you can definitely surpass that number. I was at 500 cycles with 90% health on my other iPhone 6s that was on iOS 9, and it was 3 years old by then. A heavy user will have far better health-to-cycles ratio with that approach, simply because the time degradation is not a factor.
Lithium Iron Phosphate Batteries can do 10,000 cycles and maintain 80%+ capacity and are not harmed by storing at 100% charge for long periods of time. https://www.howtogeek.com/822326/what-are-lifepo4-batteries/ - Hence the 10 year lifespan for these things.
I agree that these batteries would be great, but with the current iOS standards the device will be obsolete before those batteries degrade.

This is where I think that the majority’s opinion is wrong: battery technology isn’t the problem, device longevity is. And by device longevity I mean the hardware and software combo. There’s no perfect solution. Maintain battery life with the original battery by not updating and eventually lack of compatibility will severely impact usability. Update to maintain compatibility and battery life and performance will be shattered even with a battery replacement.

Battery technology is irrelevant because new batteries don’t fix the issue. Battery life is still abhorrent, at a currently pathetic 40% drop (at least) no updated A9 devices versus non-updated A9 devices.
 

Aston441

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Sep 16, 2014
2,606
3,934
The lack of longevity is solely due to iOS updates though, not battery technology.

If users kept their original iOS version, a current iPhone would be totally usable battery life-wise in 5 years.
Good point. Nuts how much some updates destroy battery. I stopped updating iOS 3 years ago and my battery deterioration stopped. iOS 11 was the worst, it destroyed my iPhone 5s and iPod 6 batteries immediately. That's when a bunch of states sued Apple, I guess it POed some legislators.
 

Aston441

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Sep 16, 2014
2,606
3,934
If I happened to buy 2 100% identical iPhones (for sake of argument) and use them for 5 years identically, but one I always updated the iOS software and the other I did not - I would expect less run time on the phone that has the latest software. But even after 5 years of perfect handling, the battery should be noticeably degraded. We pay a big price for thin batteries. The difference between the two phones, I might put at a 10-15% difference (educated guess). I imagine your prediction would be a higher %?


My point was:

Apple's own lithium ion batteries (lithium-ion polymer for the iPhone) - are guaranteed to hold 80% capacity for 500 cycles or 1 years (2 years if AppleCare+). https://www.apple.com/batteries/service-and-recycling/

Lithium Iron Phosphate Batteries can do 10,000 cycles and maintain 80%+ capacity and are not harmed by storing at 100% charge for long periods of time. https://www.howtogeek.com/822326/what-are-lifepo4-batteries/ - Hence the 10 year lifespan for these things.
I like your bottom point, but the first is simply not true. Apple was sued repeatedly by multiple states for their BS update battery destroying behavior. Apple quietly settled, rather than let it go to court, implying the truth, which would have been forced out in court, was highly embarrassing to Apple.
 

BigMcGuire

Cancelled
Jan 10, 2012
9,832
14,025
I like your bottom point, but the first is simply not true. Apple was sued repeatedly by multiple states for their BS update battery destroying behavior. Apple quietly settled, rather than let it go to court, implying the truth, which would have been forced out in court, was highly embarrassing to Apple.
The battery lawsuit that Apple had was in response to the 6, 6+, 6s, 6s+ phones that had a batch of bad batteries that were causing phones to shut off before the battery charge went down to 0%. Apple then quietly put out an OS update to significantly reduce the CPU voltage to prevent the shutoff due to the bad batteries that couldn't keep the phone powered with the voltage it was asking - instead of replacing the batteries - at least initially.

My wife had one of those phones - (she and I get identical phones every year) - and her phone would drop from 100% to 50% in an hour, and then shut off. We showed this to the Apple Store Genius and they told us they couldn't do anything because the phone battery condition was "green" on their side. coconutBattery showed the battery's health going from 40% to 60% to 80% and back in the timeframe of an hour.

We pressured the Apple Genius to let us pay $80 to replace the battery and they reluctantly did. A few months later Apple eventually refunded us our $ back when the lawsuit happened and offered cheap battery replacements for a few years after the lawsuit.

But that's all. Not a lawsuit because of update battery destroying behavior.
 

FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,480
1,937
Good point. Nuts how much some updates destroy battery. I stopped updating iOS 3 years ago and my battery deterioration stopped. iOS 11 was the worst, it destroyed my iPhone 5s and iPod 6 batteries immediately. That's when a bunch of states sued Apple, I guess it POed some legislators.
People blame batteries because they’ve never tried this. They’ve never used a 5-year-old iPhone with the original battery on the original iOS version. Should they try it, especially whilst charging slow and avoiding heat, then they’d see that battery life just won’t drop, even if capacity does drop.

Why is everyone skeptical about this? Simply because their own - and everyone around them and online - experience shows otherwise: they degrade batteries, they update. They replace the battery, and it improves a lot. Why? Obvious. An older, degraded battery can’t sustain the load of iOS 15 on an A9. But you can be absolutely certain that that old battery can definitely sustain the load of iOS 9 or 10 on an A9.

And why does everyone’s experience show something very different? Because everyone updates!
 
Last edited:

Aston441

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Sep 16, 2014
2,606
3,934
The battery lawsuit that Apple had was in response to the 6, 6+, 6s, 6s+ phones that had a batch of bad batteries that were causing phones to shut off before the battery charge went down to 0%. Apple then quietly put out an OS update to significantly reduce the CPU voltage to prevent the shutoff due to the bad batteries that couldn't keep the phone powered with the voltage it was asking - instead of replacing the batteries - at least initially.

My wife had one of those phones - (she and I get identical phones every year) - and her phone would drop from 100% to 50% in an hour, and then shut off. We showed this to the Apple Store Genius and they told us they couldn't do anything because the phone battery condition was "green" on their side. coconutBattery showed the battery's health going from 40% to 60% to 80% and back in the timeframe of an hour.

We pressured the Apple Genius to let us pay $80 to replace the battery and they reluctantly did. A few months later Apple eventually refunded us our $ back when the lawsuit happened and offered cheap battery replacements for a few years after the lawsuit.

But that's all. Not a lawsuit because of update battery destroying behavior.
Go read the actual suits. I did. What the "news" reported the suits said, and what they actually said, were not the same. The complaints alleged batteries suddenly swelling, phones becoming uncomfortable to touch due to sudden massive heating, and battery swelling so severe that the displays were popping off of phones.
 

Aston441

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Sep 16, 2014
2,606
3,934
People blame batteries because they’ve never tried this. They’ve never used a 5-year-old iPhone with the original battery on the original iOS version. Should they try it, especially whilst charging slow and avoiding heat, then they’d see that battery life just won’t drop, even if capacity does drop.

Why is everyone skeptical about this? Simply because their own - and everyone around them and online - experience shows otherwise: they degrade batteries, they update. They replace the battery, and it improves a lot. Why? Obvious. Older, degraded battery can’t sustain the load of iOS 15 on an A9. But you can be absolutely certain that that old battery can definitely sustain the load of iOS 9 or 10 on an A9.

And why does everyone’s experience show something very different? Because everyone updates!
Exactly. Never update.
 

christlinah

macrumors regular
Jun 18, 2022
150
182
Austria
I see you have the iPhone 14 Pro. You upgrade every year, right?
Yes, but how is that relevant here? Dangerous advice like this ("never update") is the exact reason why so many people to this day are still using completely obsolete stuff like Windows XP and then wonder why targeting them with malware is as easy as taking candy from a child...

Also I'm still using my iPhone X running on iOS 16 as my secondary phone with no problems whatsoever.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigMcGuire

FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,480
1,937
Yes, but how is that relevant here? Dangerous advice like this ("never update") is the exact reason why so many people to this day are still using completely obsolete stuff like Windows XP and then wonder why targeting them with malware is as easy as taking candy from a child...

Also I'm still using my iPhone X running on iOS 16 as my secondary phone with no problems whatsoever.
It is relevant. Use a phone as a main device throughout 5 years, and you’ll see the experience degrade consistently. You will care less now because your main phone will always be the latest.

Hell, that happened to me. I have my 9.7-inch iPad Pro on iOS 12. Apple forced it into iOS 12 from iOS 9 and I was pretty angry. It was my only iPad, and battery life was significantly degraded, and the keyboard lags occasionally (it never did on iOS 9). Apart from that, it’s fine, but I’m pretty demanding. As I don’t update, I expect near-perfection (which is always the case with original iOS versions). I got the iPad Air 5 last year, and these issues just lost focus. My 9.7-inch iPad Pro isn’t perfect, but I now have a perfect iPad. That changes a lot.

It isn’t the same if you can consistently just grab the latest iPhone. You have the iPhone X, but you don’t use it as a main phone. You don’t need amazing battery life. You don’t care if performance isn’t optimal. Because your main phone is optimal.

Yes, I am assuming, but even if you do care, it isn’t the same if you always have the latest iPhone available, compared to tolerating issues because the only device you have has been severely affected by five major updates.
 
  • Love
Reactions: Aston441

Aston441

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Sep 16, 2014
2,606
3,934
I used to worry about malware.

I don't any more. It has just become part of the fear campaign to sell more stuff. Apple does security theatre. It is BS.

In 2008 (?), I had a fully patched, always day 0 updated, XP machine killed by a virus. At a dodgy website, the virus instantly walked directly through my browser and ate my hard drive. That drive was completely unsalvageable. It was the only time a virus, of which I have had quite a few, beat me. I fought that damn virus for a month, finally gave up and tossed the whole machine in the trash. It was old anyway, I think I built it in 2001. Being perfectly updated did nothing.

Everything on iOS is supposedly sandboxed. If there are flaws in that, oh well. I could care less. Every government and corporation and their mother's in laws are watching everything I do anyway, I don't care if some different criminals are watching me through my devices too.

My online purchases and banking are all insured one way or another. If there are fraudulent charges, they get reversed. If someone gets into my bank accounts and steals it all, that gets reversed too. So it is of no real consequence to anyone, including the banks that just "print" up some new digits to cover theft losses.

What IS of consequence, is if I update, my device is immediately degraded, permanently. I can't just reverse the charge. Screw that.

I'm done playing Apple's little games.

Never update.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FeliApple

FreakinEurekan

macrumors 603
Sep 8, 2011
5,608
2,675
Was just thinking that my ideal iPhone would be the SE, twice as thick and heavy, and would last all week between charges. It's still small because it's otherwise SE form factor and still drops in the pants pocket easily. It's simple, basic, cheap, does iPhone stuff, and I can just charge it on Sunday and forget about it, and have a nice life.
Heck no. I can’t go a week without sleeping, so there’s no sense going that long without charging.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MarkX

platinumaqua

macrumors regular
Oct 11, 2021
200
273
sure. not really twice as thick - it only needs to be as thick as the camera bump to flatten it
 

Lotuskid

macrumors regular
May 23, 2010
240
266
No, 14pm already pushing up against the max dimensions and weight that I find comfortable. I like the idea of modular MagSafe/external batteries as a way to top up when needed. otherwise I mostly need my phone to last a full waking day without needing to expend any mental energy monitoring my battery life, which the max currently does for me
 

dontwalkhand

macrumors 603
Jul 5, 2007
6,381
2,868
Phoenix, AZ
A phone that is twice as thick and heavy would only be 2x as long lasting. So say your phone only lasts a couple days on a charge because you're a light user, you'd get maybe 4 days.

Nope. My phone is my mobile device. It goes in my back pocket when I'm walking around. It is my device that I take with me when I leave my house.

Two times now I've gotten the Pro model and went back to the Pro Max because I missed the battery life but I REALLY liked the size and the feeling in the hand. Ultimately went back to the Pro Max because of battery life and screen size.

But no way would I go heavier / bigger than this.
Why do people enjoy sitting on their phones?
 

BigMcGuire

Cancelled
Jan 10, 2012
9,832
14,025
Why do people enjoy sitting on their phones?
I definitely can't. If I do I'll break my phone. I am not a small person (hence my name). lol.

I've always put my phone in my back pocket while walking/moving. It goes in the car / restaurant table or desk on napkin if I'm sitting. Works for me :p

At my office desk - it's sitting in front of my keyboard as we type.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.