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Gudi

Suspended
May 3, 2013
4,590
3,265
Berlin, Berlin
It’s really late in this thread to say this but I will say that the auto boot thing is almost certainly because having it off is pointless. Do you power off your phone between uses?
You confuse sleep/wake with boot-up/shut-down, the latter is a 3 seconds long press on the power button of the iPhone. Precisely because sleep/wake is automated with lid open/close it shouldn't also boot-up when you just open the lid.
The sleep on the M series MacBooks draws no noticeable power while on with the lid shut and it allows them to have their wonderful instant on. Why even shut it down? Mine only ever turns off to update.
Reasons to shut down include OS updates, long time storage, shipment and repairs. You don't want your laptop to accidentally power on, when you're trying to examine if a spilled cup of coffee caused a water damage. AutoBoot is a stupid, useless, awful feature.
 

headlessmike

macrumors 65816
May 16, 2017
1,291
2,582
But there are too many settings now for a grid to work out and the grid forced awkward design choices, we only came to accept because we're used to it. Sometimes a scrolling list of arbitrary length is the best way to present information. The problem with the new settings app is that the segmentation hasn't yet matured into a consistent tree of related settings.
That's my experience too. I frequently use OS X 10.2 Jaguar on my G4 and recently used 10.0 Cheetah for the first time. The pedigree to Monterey's Settings is clear, but so is the bloat in the latter with many features shoehorned into odd places just because the grid limits the number of places to put things. The version in Ventura and Sonoma is far from perfect, but I think that a complete rethink of the Systems Settings was necessary at some point and hopefully it will mature into something great.
 

Gudi

Suspended
May 3, 2013
4,590
3,265
Berlin, Berlin
They reworded and reorganized System Preferences so many times. And every macOS version would have an ever so slightly updated cogwheel icon. This level of refinement can't be matched by the first version of System Settings. Nonetheless they had to finally give up the idea of putting everything on one control panel.

Macintosh Control Panel

image.jpeg
 

zach-coleman

macrumors 65816
Apr 10, 2022
1,188
2,105
You confuse sleep/wake with boot-up/shut-down, the latter is a 3 seconds long press on the power button of the iPhone. Precisely because sleep/wake is automated with lid open/close it shouldn't also boot-up when you just open the lid.
I don’t confuse anything. I’m saying they intentionally did this to discourage shutting the laptop down between uses. People have that nasty habit from an decade+ ago even though it isn’t useful anymore. On the M series it is exactly as useful to shut it down as it is to fully power down an iPhone between uses.

Reasons to shut down include OS updates, long time storage, shipment and repairs. You don't want your laptop to accidentally power on, when you're trying to examine if a spilled cup of coffee caused a water damage. AutoBoot is a stupid, useless, awful feature.
OS Updates: no correlation
Long time storage/shipping/repairs: the lid is magnetized. I have never had it open when I didn’t intend for it to open.
Coffee: power down the laptop without shutting the lid
 

Gudi

Suspended
May 3, 2013
4,590
3,265
Berlin, Berlin
... the lid is magnetized. I have never had it open when I didn’t intend for it to open.
The problem is not the lid opening unintended, the problem is unintended boot-ups. People open up the lid without the intention to boot up the machine all the time. Apple automating things that didn't need to be automated has always been an annoyance. Like every time AutoCorrect wrongfully corrects my perfectly spelled words. 😫 📲
 

zach-coleman

macrumors 65816
Apr 10, 2022
1,188
2,105
That's my experience too. I frequently use OS X 10.2 Jaguar on my G4 and recently used 10.0 Cheetah for the first time. The pedigree to Monterey's Settings is clear, but so is the bloat in the latter with many features shoehorned into odd places just because the grid limits the number of places to put things. The version in Ventura and Sonoma is far from perfect, but I think that a complete rethink of the Systems Settings was necessary at some point and hopefully it will mature into something great.
The old system preferences was the worst designed app on Mac. Absolutely awful design. I’m so glad they stood their ground here instead of reverting like the beautiful safari redesign they scrapped due to blowback a few years ago.
 
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Basic75

macrumors 68000
May 17, 2011
1,996
2,342
Europe
The sleep on the M series MacBooks draws no noticeable power while on with the lid shut and it allows them to have their wonderful instant on.
Unless some application (accidentally) prevents the system from sleeping and you are surprised in the morning with an empty battery. Without the indicator light you can't even see when this is happening.
 

yayarod

macrumors member
Feb 18, 2018
46
35
Buenos Aires, ARGENTINA
Hey guys,

I just wanted to share my experience with the 2022 M2 Macbook Air coming from the 2013 MacBook Air 11,6“. I wanted to try one of these and compare it against the 11 incher. This is going to be very subjective and I‘m very picky but anyone upgrading from one of these might be interested.

Observations:
1.
The difference in weight and especially size (duuh) is very noticable.
View attachment 2293752 View attachment 2293753 View attachment 2293755 View attachment 2293756


2. My palms prefer the wedge design.
View attachment 2293757 View attachment 2293758


3. Speakers on the new one have way more bass but totally lack the mids.

4. The keys on the new keyboard have a little less travel. Small difference but I prefer the old keyboard.

5. I hate that it auto boots when I open it (wtf?) and I can‘t turn it off.

6. I don‘t like the new layout of System preferences in Sonoma.

7. Display, webcam, battery life and raw computepower are way better on the new one. I‘m using mine for office and media consumption tasks, but also record vocals in Logic. I don‘t need 8K video editing power.

8. Notch bothers me more than it did on the iPhone. Why isn’t it aligned with the taskbar? Just shy of a couple of pixels. And the mousepointer and icons going behind the notch irritates me. You could literally "lose" a file on your desktop behind the notch. Why Apple?
View attachment 2293759 View attachment 2293773

9. I would have preferred keys for adjusting the keyboardbrightness instead of Spotlight and Focus.

10. The rubber feet on the new one are more slippery compared to the old ones. So one handed opening has it sliding away. This might change with time and depends on the tables surface.

11. The biggest gripe by far I have with it is the touchpad! It doesn‘t have any travel which irritates me so much it has me cringing when clicking. Feels like it‘s stuck or like it was "heavy" or something heavy pulling on it so you can't click it. Is this normal?? This alone makes me want to return it.


Additional points:
One USB-A port would have been a life saver when you‘re in other environments. USB-A is still everywhere.

I recently upgraded the SSD in the old one. Not having that option in the new ones is bad when you give it some thought. This has been discussed to death on this forum, but it‘s just the truth.

Oh and Apple needs to bring back the illuminated Logo 😉
View attachment 2293762


A couple of years back I tested the 12“ Macbook. Keyboard was really bad, one port only was really bad, weight and display were great!

Conclusion: 13,6“ is not for me. I‘ll be waiting for a new smaller Macbook and keep enjoying my fully functioning 11,6“.
11. The touchpad doesn't have any travel. It's a piece of glass that doesn't move. The feedback is a haptic illusion. Set it to Tap to click for a smoother experience.
 
Last edited:

HackMacDaddy

Cancelled
Original poster
Dec 17, 2019
378
1,096
11. The touchpad doesn't have any travel. It's a piece of glass that doesn't move. The feedback is a haptic illusion. Set it to Tap to click for a smoother experience.
Thanks, I tried every possible solution, even googled for an app that increases the taptic feedback, but without luck. It's totally different and feels odd to me. I tried for several days but I prefer a mechanical trackpad.
 

ric22

Suspended
Mar 8, 2022
2,156
2,042
The old system preferences was the worst designed app on Mac. Absolutely awful design. I’m so glad they stood their ground here instead of reverting like the beautiful safari redesign they scrapped due to blowback a few years ago.
The settings menus are so bad I just type in what I'm looking for every time
 
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enchefitri

macrumors newbie
Oct 15, 2023
4
6
Coming from someone who uses both Windows and Mac, the autoboot feature is strange to me at first, but got used to it, and now, I just shut my Air and go. Open it up and start working.

Funny enough, from what I read, the whole open it up and start working was one of the goals that even Bill Gates wanted for Windows. They couldn't quite get it to work, which if I am to be honest, boils down to x86 being the jury rigged architecture that it is. They still work on it. Heck, just opening Windows update and that thing would politely ask you if it could update the system when you are not using it - a.k.a when it is in sleep mode presumably.

Having used multitude of laptops running Windows, I would say that they needed the shutdown - ten laptops will give you ten different reactions to sleep, that much of my friends who moved to the Mac appreciated the open up and go nature of the M series MacBook. And I believe that going forward that would be the case.

After all, haven't we all conditioned to expect on and go nature from our devices. My generation who started on PC's that took more than a minute may see autoboot as an annoyance.

My daughter would question why the laptop didn't spring to life when opened like her iPhone.
 

Cape Dave

macrumors 68020
Nov 16, 2012
2,306
1,573
Northeast
Hey guys,

I just wanted to share my experience with the 2022 M2 Macbook Air coming from the 2013 MacBook Air 11,6“. I wanted to try one of these and compare it against the 11 incher. This is going to be very subjective and I‘m very picky but anyone upgrading from one of these might be interested.

Observations:
1.
The difference in weight and especially size (duuh) is very noticable.
View attachment 2293752 View attachment 2293753 View attachment 2293755 View attachment 2293756


2. My palms prefer the wedge design.
View attachment 2293757 View attachment 2293758


3. Speakers on the new one have way more bass but totally lack the mids.

4. The keys on the new keyboard have a little less travel. Small difference but I prefer the old keyboard.

5. I hate that it auto boots when I open it (wtf?) and I can‘t turn it off.

6. I don‘t like the new layout of System preferences in Sonoma.

7. Display, webcam, battery life and raw computepower are way better on the new one. I‘m using mine for office and media consumption tasks, but also record vocals in Logic. I don‘t need 8K video editing power.

8. Notch bothers me more than it did on the iPhone. Why isn’t it aligned with the taskbar? Just shy of a couple of pixels. And the mousepointer and icons going behind the notch irritates me. You could literally "lose" a file on your desktop behind the notch. Why Apple?
View attachment 2293759 View attachment 2293773

9. I would have preferred keys for adjusting the keyboardbrightness instead of Spotlight and Focus.

10. The rubber feet on the new one are more slippery compared to the old ones. So one handed opening has it sliding away. This might change with time and depends on the tables surface.

11. The biggest gripe by far I have with it is the touchpad! It doesn‘t have any travel which irritates me so much it has me cringing when clicking. Feels like it‘s stuck or like it was "heavy" or something heavy pulling on it so you can't click it. Is this normal?? This alone makes me want to return it.


Additional points:
One USB-A port would have been a life saver when you‘re in other environments. USB-A is still everywhere.

I recently upgraded the SSD in the old one. Not having that option in the new ones is bad when you give it some thought. This has been discussed to death on this forum, but it‘s just the truth.

Oh and Apple needs to bring back the illuminated Logo 😉
View attachment 2293762


A couple of years back I tested the 12“ Macbook. Keyboard was really bad, one port only was really bad, weight and display were great!

Conclusion: 13,6“ is not for me. I‘ll be waiting for a new smaller Macbook and keep enjoying my fully functioning 11,6“.
Yes for the logo! Dropping that is the dumbest thing apple has ever done.
 
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zach-coleman

macrumors 65816
Apr 10, 2022
1,188
2,105
The settings menus are so bad I just type in what I'm looking for every time
That was my experience with the previous one but with the current one I can at least recall some from my iPhone memories. Still plenty of searching though.
 
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zach-coleman

macrumors 65816
Apr 10, 2022
1,188
2,105
Unless some application (accidentally) prevents the system from sleeping and you are surprised in the morning with an empty battery. Without the indicator light you can't even see when this is happening.
I can’t say I’ve ever experienced this issue. I guess that could be a problem…
 

scottrichardson

macrumors 6502a
Jul 10, 2007
701
276
Ulladulla, NSW Australia
Subjectively - the M2 13" Air is the BEST Apple product I have ever owned. Combination of performance, size, display quality/brightness, speakers, and industrial design are fantastic in my eyes. I own a more powerful M2 Max 16" MBP for workstation but find myself leaving that docked to my Studio Display and rarely moving it. My Air, it's just such a joy to use anywhere. The battery lasts plenty long too. So, just throwing my $0.02 in - couldn't be happier with mine.
 

Mainsail

macrumors 68020
Sep 19, 2010
2,355
3,158
Subjectively - the M2 13" Air is the BEST Apple product I have ever owned. Combination of performance, size, display quality/brightness, speakers, and industrial design are fantastic in my eyes. I own a more powerful M2 Max 16" MBP for workstation but find myself leaving that docked to my Studio Display and rarely moving it. My Air, it's just such a joy to use anywhere. The battery lasts plenty long too. So, just throwing my $0.02 in - couldn't be happier with mine.
I could not agree with you more. As it relates to the OP, who is comparing to a 2013 MBA, I would also add to your list: camera, Touch ID, trackpad, processor speed, fanless operation, and many other improvements. I owned a 2014 MBA, which was a great machine in its day, but it is not even close to my M2 MBA. Now, I get that the OP misses the 11.6in form factor, and if there is a market for that size, Apple might resurrect and reimagine the 12 in MBA that they discontinued. For the time being, they seem to be going in the opposite direction with the 15 in model.
 
Last edited:

HackMacDaddy

Cancelled
Original poster
Dec 17, 2019
378
1,096
I could not agree with you more. As it relates to the OP, who is comparing to a 2013 MBA, I would also add to your list: camera, Touch ID, trackpad, processor speed, fanless operation, and many other improvements. I owned a 2014 MBA, which was a great machine in its day, but it is not even close to my M2 MBA. Now, I get that the OP misses the 11.6in form factor, and if there is a market for that size, Apple might resurrect and reimagine the 12 in MBA that they discontinued. For the time being, they seem to be going in the opposite direction with the 15 in model.
Unfortunately I‘m in the minority that loves the 11“/12“ size for Laptops and uses an iPhone 13 Mini instead of a Pro Max/Plus like seemingly everybody else in the world.
 

Mainsail

macrumors 68020
Sep 19, 2010
2,355
3,158
Unfortunately I‘m in the minority that loves the 11“/12“ size for Laptops and uses an iPhone 13 Mini instead of a Pro Max/Plus like seemingly everybody else in the world.
Yes, and that is unfortunate. Of course, Apple can't profitably make products for all possible market segments and consumer preferences, so they need to make business decisions and trade-offs. Apparently, it isn't worthwhile for them to make a smaller MBA at this time. But, take heart. Things may change, and Apple might yet restart the smaller MBA form factor. Alternatively, the iPad Pro 11 inch may evolve into an acceptable substitute for the fan of smaller MBAs. Time will tell.
 
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chrise2

macrumors 6502a
Sep 17, 2012
504
70
They reworded and reorganized System Preferences so many times. And every macOS version would have an ever so slightly updated cogwheel icon. This level of refinement can't be matched by the first version of System Settings. Nonetheless they had to finally give up the idea of putting everything on one control panel.

Macintosh Control Panel

View attachment 2295967
I just noticed that this is a framed cross stitch and not an actual screenshot. Awesome.
 
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iAppleOrchard

macrumors 6502a
Feb 19, 2022
876
1,192
Colorado
There is a Siri Shortcut that allows you to hide the notch. Would this maybe help your bothersome about the Notch?
 

Makisupa Policeman

macrumors 6502
Sep 28, 2021
474
336
11. This is a new one for me…I’ve never heard anyone complain about the new(er) trackpad design. Newer Macs use Force Touch that simulates the feel of a mechanical trackpad, but honestly I hate the constant sound of trackpad clicks, and on any new Mac I immediately turn on silent click/tap to click instead. For me the newer trackpads’ rich set of multi-touch gestures and butter-smoothness are what make them the best in the business.
 

HackMacDaddy

Cancelled
Original poster
Dec 17, 2019
378
1,096
11. This is a new one for me…I’ve never heard anyone complain about the new(er) trackpad design. Newer Macs use Force Touch that simulates the feel of a mechanical trackpad, but honestly I hate the constant sound of trackpad clicks, and on any new Mac I immediately turn on silent click/tap to click instead. For me the newer trackpads’ rich set of multi-touch gestures and butter-smoothness are what make them the best in the business.
I prefer the real thing with real travel and a real click. Force touch is like vegan steak :D

I use a combination of tap to click (index finger) and regular click (thumb)
 
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