Xbox Series X (coming 10 Nov 2020)

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

Please do tell how Nintendo are not ‘fun’? Nintendo does what Nintendo do and it has over ‘100 million’ fans that like the way they do things.

Let's see:

• Holding their legacy games hostage like the infamous Disney Vault
• Making a really fun NSO version of Super Mario Bros called Mario 35th that they shut down after March 31st 2021 for no reason when people loved the game
• Packaging the 3D Mario platformers in a $60 package then delisting them from digital storefronts after March 31st 2021 for no reason
• Charging $20 a year for a online service that doesn't function right at all then having the gall to have a $50 a year tier that paywalls N64 and Gameboy Advance games
• The fact you can't buy any of their old games anymore paywalling them behind Nintendo Switch Online
• Their refusal to put any of their legendary soundtracks on iTunes for purchase or available on music streaming services, then content IDing anyone who dares play the music in a Youtube video or livestream
• Their treatment of the Smash community especially Melee players, sabotaging any attempts at forming tournaments with good prize pools and banning anyone using mods for Smash to make the gameplay experience better such as Slippi which adds rollback netcode to the game. (For more on that look up #FreeMelee and #SaveSmash) Even since 2013 they were like this as they almost banned Melee from EVO 2013 when the Melee community earned their tournament spot by supporting their cancer charity drive the most. Only after major news outlets picked up on the story did Nintendo relent and allow them to continue the tournament as planned.
• Taking down any fan projects no matter how good they are, such as Pokemon Uranium or Another Metroid 2 Remake (AM2R) then ruining the lives of the fangame makers. Meanwhile when Bethesda, SEGA, and Valve see really good fangames made of their properties, they hire the creators to bring their talents into official projects, all the while allowing them to sell said fan projects. A great example of this being Black Mesa, a completely fanmade remake of Half Life 1 that Valve gave them the greenlight to sell even helping out with a couple texture assets.
• Nintendo Minute hosts Kit and Krysta wanted to do a live Nuzlocke run of Pokemon (which is you can only catch the first Pokemon you meet in a new area, and if they faint that Pokemon is considered dead and gone for good) but Nintendo wouldn't let them, citing "no we don't want you to play the game that way because these runs are usually linked to modded versions of the game."

I can go on and on, like how Nintendo refuses to do PC releases of their games despite the demand for it, or the boomer takes regarding their design philosophy in regards to the Mario IP limiting character design, or Joycon Drift, and so much more. Youtuber EmpLemon made a better video that just shows some of the most egregious practices Nintendo still does to this day.

 

[salamanderjuice]

Let's see:

• Holding their legacy games hostage like the infamous Disney Vault
• Making a really fun NSO version of Super Mario Bros called Mario 35th that they shut down after March 31st 2021 for no reason when people loved the game
• Packaging the 3D Mario platformers in a $60 package then delisting them from digital storefronts after March 31st 2021 for no reason
• Charging $20 a year for a online service that doesn't function right at all then having the gall to have a $50 a year tier that paywalls N64 and Gameboy Advance games
• The fact you can't buy any of their old games anymore paywalling them behind Nintendo Switch Online
• Their refusal to put any of their legendary soundtracks on iTunes for purchase or available on music streaming services, then content IDing anyone who dares play the music in a Youtube video or livestream
• Their treatment of the Smash community especially Melee players, sabotaging any attempts at forming tournaments with good prize pools and banning anyone using mods for Smash to make the gameplay experience better such as Slippi which adds rollback netcode to the game. (For more on that look up #FreeMelee and #SaveSmash) Even since 2013 they were like this as they almost banned Melee from EVO 2013 when the Melee community earned their tournament spot by supporting their cancer charity drive the most. Only after major news outlets picked up on the story did Nintendo relent and allow them to continue the tournament as planned.
• Taking down any fan projects no matter how good they are, such as Pokemon Uranium or Another Metroid 2 Remake (AM2R) then ruining the lives of the fangame makers. Meanwhile when Bethesda, SEGA, and Valve see really good fangames made of their properties, they hire the creators to bring their talents into official projects, all the while allowing them to sell said fan projects. A great example of this being Black Mesa, a completely fanmade remake of Half Life 1 that Valve gave them the greenlight to sell even helping out with a couple texture assets.
• Nintendo Minute hosts Kit and Krysta wanted to do a live Nuzlocke run of Pokemon (which is you can only catch the first Pokemon you meet in a new area, and if they faint that Pokemon is considered dead and gone for good) but Nintendo wouldn't let them, citing "no we don't want you to play the game that way because these runs are usually linked to modded versions of the game."

I can go on and on, like how Nintendo refuses to do PC releases of their games despite the demand for it, or the boomer takes regarding their design philosophy in regards to the Mario IP limiting character design, or Joycon Drift, and so much more. Youtuber EmpLemon made a better video that just shows some of the most egregious practices Nintendo still does to this day.

Nintendo makes it pretty easy to get access to legacy games. Most of their catalogue from NES through N64 is easily available and has been for years. Can you really say with a straight face Sony and Microsoft are doing a better job there? Can I buy a copy of Ape Escape 3 or Gran Turismo 2 from Sony? SOCOM? Killzone? Can I get Project Gotham Racing from Microsoft? Blinx 2? Flight Simulator 98? The original Crimson Skies? Mech Assault?

Yeah it'd be nice if you could buy them but it's a bit silly to suggest they're unavailable or Disney vaulted when far more of their catalogue is available than competitors.

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

Nintendo makes it pretty easy to get access to legacy games. Most of their catalogue from NES through N64 is easily available and has been for years. Can you really say with a straight face Sony and Microsoft are doing a better job there? Can I buy a copy of Ape Escape 3 or Gran Turismo 2 from Sony? SOCOM? Killzone? Can I get Project Gotham Racing from Microsoft? Blinx 2? Flight Simulator 98? The original Crimson Skies? Mech Assault?

Yeah it'd be nice if you could buy them but it's a bit silly to suggest they're unavailable or Disney vaulted when far more of their catalogue is available than competitors.

That catalogue of NES and N64 is the result of five years of dripfeeding. Months and months would go by of hardly any NES or SNES games added, and the ones that were added were mediocre titles scrapping the bottom of the barrel while Nintendo's first party games were held back to drop at a later time. Five years later and it's still a farcry compared to the Wii U Virtual Console's catalogue. There's still so much missing, and of course you can't buy these games, only access them via an NSO sub. And of course there's still a lack of Gamecube support when Gamecube was arguably their best generation in terms of game quality.

Also your whataboutism doesn't really work when Microsoft's backwards compatibility is still vastly better. You can buy and own original Xbox and 360 games and play them on an Xbox One or Series X and S, physical and digital copies. There's very few games that aren't available, and the ones that aren't are usually due to licensing. It's why Microsoft has ceased adding new backwards compatibility titles in 2021 since they kinda ran out of titles to add. Any remaining titles are kinda impossible due to not having the licensing to get them.

 

[Macalicious2011]

Any remaining titles are kinda impossible due to not having the licensing to get them.

Like Capcom games. Hence why physical games are great. If Sony/MS fall out with a brand or gaming studios that demands that the game is removed from the clouds, there are physical copies to fall back on.

 

[salamanderjuice]

That catalogue of NES and N64 is the result of five years of dripfeeding. Months and months would go by of hardly any NES or SNES games added, and the ones that were added were mediocre titles scrapping the bottom of the barrel while Nintendo's first party games were held back to drop at a later time. Five years later and it's still a farcry compared to the Wii U Virtual Console's catalogue. There's still so much missing, and of course you can't buy these games, only access them via an NSO sub. And of course there's still a lack of Gamecube support when Gamecube was arguably their best generation in terms of game quality.

Also your whataboutism doesn't really work when Microsoft's backwards compatibility is still vastly better. You can buy and own original Xbox and 360 games and play them on an Xbox One or Series X and S, physical and digital copies. There's very few games that aren't available, and the ones that aren't are usually due to licensing. It's why Microsoft has ceased adding new backwards compatibility titles in 2021 since they kinda ran out of titles to add. Any remaining titles are kinda impossible due to not having the licensing to get them.

The "missing" titles on NSO vs. Wii U VC are 3rd party titles. Most of Nintendo's first party or second party output is there. What's not is usually something like Duck Hunt or Wild Gunman or the R.O.B games that need some weird peripheral the Switch has no analogue of. Third parties decided they'd rather pump out collections on their own.

There's plenty of missing Xbox titles even among those published by Microsoft. There's only 8 Microsoft published games compatible out of like 50. Yes, some of them have licensed stuff like the sports or racing titles but there's still a lot of missing crap like N.U.D.E, Sneakers, Blinx 2, Kung Fu Chaos, Brute Force, Blood Wake, Sudeki, Tao Feng: Fist of the Lotus, etc. You could argue nobody wants to play garbage like Kung Fu Chaos but Nintendo makes their garbage like Ice Climbers available. And Microsoft supposedly has perpetual rights to electronic versions of BattleTech games since they bought F.A.S.A interactive, yet no MechAssault 1 & 2. Even then they are regularly licensing cars for Forza whatever, would it really cost that much to tack on their historical racing catalogue?

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

The "missing" titles on NSO vs. Wii U VC are 3rd party titles. Most of Nintendo's first party or second party output is there. What's not is usually something like Duck Hunt or Wild Gunman or the R.O.B games that need some weird peripheral the Switch has no analogue of. Third parties decided they'd rather pump out collections on their own.

There's plenty of missing Xbox titles even among those published by Microsoft. There's only 8 Microsoft published games compatible out of like 50. Yes, some of them have licensed stuff like the sports or racing titles but there's still a lot of missing crap like N.U.D.E, Sneakers, Blinx 2, Kung Fu Chaos, Brute Force, Blood Wake, Sudeki, Tao Feng: Fist of the Lotus, etc. You could argue nobody wants to play garbage like Kung Fu Chaos but Nintendo makes their garbage like Ice Climbers available. And Microsoft supposedly has perpetual rights to electronic versions of BattleTech games since they bought F.A.S.A interactive, yet no MechAssault 1 & 2. Even then they are regularly licensing cars for Forza whatever, would it really cost that much to tack on their historical racing catalogue?

Kung Fu Chaos I know for a fact is never getting a rerelease, because that game is regarded as one of the most racist video games ever made, and Microsoft and Ninja Theory would rather not face controversy over a rerelease of that.

 

[mattspace]

If the series x lose the disc drive then the backwards compatability ethos falls apart.

Sure you can play older titles on gamepass. But not all of them and it's plausible that gamepass will become more expensive every year. A disc drive is a hedge against that.

Whether the disc drive will be relevant for new titles in 2-3 years will depend on the direction that gaming studios take e.g sell a title for £60 or create a freemium game and generate billions in in-app purchases.

bearing in mind the Series X doesn’t actually play backward-compatible games from the drive, all it’s used for is as a copy protection mechanism to authorise the download of a compatible-rewritten version of the game. Still, it is good as a bluray player, iirc.

 

[Macalicious2011]

bearing in mind the Series X doesn’t actually play backward-compatible games from the drive, all it’s used for is as a copy protection mechanism to authorise the download of a compatible-rewritten version of the game. Still, it is good as a bluray player, iirc.

This is correct. Any disc based game that I insert, prompts a 35-100GB download.

Disc-based titles will continue to be attractive, but only if the games are complete out of the box. My fear is that we will see an increase in games that are partial e.g you buy the game but to make it whole, you need to purchase 2-4 DLC packs. Some DLCs are only available for purchase on licence for a couple of year.

I found out the hard way when I purchased Forza Horizon 2 only to learn that hundreds of cars were from DLCs that are no longer available for purchase. However, even if they were, it might have been uneconomical to spend £15-20 in add-ons for a game that cost £5.

 

[Macalicious2011]

I wonder if MS will announce a refreshed series x. If some of their titles will be published for ps5, it would indicate that they will leave the hardware market in 4-5 years.

the iPhone is becoming increasingly more powerful and the new DMA regulations will pave way for a native Xbox store on iPhones - at least in Europe to start with. There will be potential to generate more revenue on iPhones than spending billions and years on R&D distribution for Xbox hardware.

Can’t wait to see what they will announce. However I expect the Series S refresh to be all digital but with the existing one sold along side it for a while to appease physical media enthusiasts.

Phil Spencer says Xbox will share "vision for the future" in event next week

Following a day of reports pointing to a potentially seismic shift in Microsoft's approach to its first-party games, Xb…

www.eurogamer.net

 

[mattspace]

the iPhone is becoming increasingly more powerful and the new DMA regulations will pave way for a native Xbox store on iPhones - at least in Europe to start with. There will be potential to generate more revenue on iPhones than spending billions and years on R&D distribution for Xbox hardware.

The iPhone isn't even remotely close to an Xbox in terms of hardware capabilities for games, nor is it likely to be able to handle 4k gaming any time in the next few years. Apart from anything, it lacks the cooling system to run its components at full power for more than a few seconds.

What regulations like DMA let Microsoft do is have their full game library able to be purchased, and the video *streamed* to the phone from an Xbox running in a server farm, without having to put every game through Apple's app store review, as is the case currently.

 

[Macalicious2011]

The iPhone isn't even remotely close to an Xbox in terms of hardware capabilities for games, nor is it likely to be able to handle 4k gaming any time in the next few years. Apart from anything, it lacks the cooling system to run its components at full power for more than a few seconds.

What regulations like DMA let Microsoft do is have their full game library able to be purchased, and the video *streamed* to the phone from an Xbox running in a server farm, without having to put every game through Apple's app store review, as is the case currently.

True about cooling. When I use my 15 Pro for video recording the battery drains from full to zero to an hour. I can reduce the battery drain by bringing brightness down and deactivating Bluetooth and cellular. For triple a online gaming the drain is probably faster. This is where streaming could be a great solution.

Lack of 4k isn’t a deal breaker. There are lots of gamers, including those with powerful PCs who play in 1080p or 1440.

 

[diamond.g]

I wonder if MS will announce a refreshed series x. If some of their titles will be published for ps5, it would indicate that they will leave the hardware market in 4-5 years.

the iPhone is becoming increasingly more powerful and the new DMA regulations will pave way for a native Xbox store on iPhones - at least in Europe to start with. There will be potential to generate more revenue on iPhones than spending billions and years on R&D distribution for Xbox hardware.

Can’t wait to see what they will announce. However I expect the Series S refresh to be all digital but with the existing one sold along side it for a while to appease physical media enthusiasts.

Phil Spencer says Xbox will share "vision for the future" in event next week

Following a day of reports pointing to a potentially seismic shift in Microsoft's approach to its first-party games, Xb…

www.eurogamer.net

Oh this is going to be fun... If MS bows out of doing hardware (like Sega), I'm not sure who in the pure console space would keep Sony in check as Nintendo doesn't seem interested in competing in the same 'high end' space.

 

[salamanderjuice]

I wonder if MS will announce a refreshed series x. If some of their titles will be published for ps5, it would indicate that they will leave the hardware market in 4-5 years.

the iPhone is becoming increasingly more powerful and the new DMA regulations will pave way for a native Xbox store on iPhones - at least in Europe to start with. There will be potential to generate more revenue on iPhones than spending billions and years on R&D distribution for Xbox hardware.

Can’t wait to see what they will announce. However I expect the Series S refresh to be all digital but with the existing one sold along side it for a while to appease physical media enthusiasts.

Phil Spencer says Xbox will share "vision for the future" in event next week

Following a day of reports pointing to a potentially seismic shift in Microsoft's approach to its first-party games, Xb…

www.eurogamer.net

They won't. Not at this event anyways. This is 100% an event to talk about the constant rumors and leaks of several Xbox exclusives coming to other consoles (e.g. Hi-fi Rush, Indiana Jones, etc.).

The refreshes of the X and S leaked from some court slides. It's possible they are wrong because they were a bit old but at this point it seems like both the X and S refreshes will be "adorably all digital" (their words).

 

[Macalicious2011]

They won't. Not at this event anyways. This is 100% an event to talk about the constant rumors and leaks of several Xbox exclusives coming to other consoles (e.g. Hi-fi Rush, Indiana Jones, etc.).

The refreshes of the X and S leaked from some court slides. It's possible they are wrong because they were a bit old but at this point it seems like both the X and S refreshes will be "adorably all digital" (their words).

They must deliver some positive news for xbox fans and prospective xbox customers or else whats the incentive to buy over ps5 if several titles won't be exclusive?

Why bother buying an Xbox now.

Oh this is going to be fun... If MS bows out of doing hardware (like Sega), I'm not sure who in the pure console space would keep Sony in check as Nintendo doesn't seem interested in competing in the same 'high end' space.

60% or more of gaming is now mobile. Therefore “losing” the hardware battle is less of an issue if the roi for developing ps5 and switch games is greater.

 

[Macalicious2011]

Microsoft Layoffs Include Xbox Physical Retail Teams

The departments dedicated to bringing physical Xbox games to retail are targeted during the recent massive round of layoffs at Microsoft Gaming.

gamerant.com

 

[Richdmoore]

I am waiting to hear what will happen.

I would love some sort of a disc to digital program, allow us to get our remaining disc based games into a digital license on our Xbox account (I would expect a small fee for this) as a start to transition into an all digital future.

I am not sold with streaming pass future due to the poor performance when I use hotel or other slow internet, even my home fiber network 1gb symmetrical plan pixilates for a second sometime.

The real worry for me is that Xbox will bow out of future consoles, abandoning my library as time rolls on.

 

[diamond.g]

60% or more of gaming is now mobile. Therefore “losing” the hardware battle is less of an issue if the roi for developing ps5 and switch games is greater.

They would be walking in Sega's footsteps, imo. Which turned out meh for them in the end (again imo).

 

[mattspace]

True about cooling. When I use my 15 Pro for video recording the battery drains from full to zero to an hour. I can reduce the battery drain by bringing brightness down and deactivating Bluetooth and cellular. For triple a online gaming the drain is probably faster. This is where streaming could be a great solution.

Game streaming for Xbox is based on one physical Series X console per active streamer, so streaming still requires consoles in the server farm.

Battery life isn’t the issue. Playing Xbox-level titles locally on an iPhone, for the sort of timespans Xbox gamers play, is going to trigger thermal shutdowns on the devices, or render the games unplayably slow.

Lack of 4k isn’t a deal breaker. There are lots of gamers, including those with powerful PCs who play in 1080p or 1440.

Why would PC gamers want to play on a cellphone? The fact they have a gaming PC self-selects them as someone who is interested in aspects of gaming that exclude an iPhone as an option.

4k is important when the entire marketing shtick of your console is that it’s a 4k-native gaming system.

 

[mattspace]

I am waiting to hear what will happen.

I would love some sort of a disc to digital program, allow us to get our remaining disc based games into a digital license on our Xbox account (I would expect a small fee for this) as a start to transition into an all digital future.

When you load a disc into an Xbox, it’s already downloading a digital version of the game. The only purpose the physical disc serves, is as an authentication key. The difficulty is that the individual discs may not have a unique serial number on the physical plastic that could be “cancelled” to prevent generation of additional concurrent instances.

I am not sold with streaming pass future due to the poor performance when I use hotel or other slow internet, even my home fiber network 1gb symmetrical plan pixilates for a second sometime.

Streaming is for a few people in Silicon Valley, who are playing single-player games. The latency is never going to work for PvP gaming, which is the primary selling point and customer base of Game Pass.

The real worry for me is that Xbox will bow out of future consoles, abandoning my library as time rolls on.

Microsoft’s no more likely to get out of consoles, than they are to shutter the Surface division. Console is the only place they can own the customer without competition - one may as well argue Apple get out of cellphones and Macs, and open the AppStores to Android and Windows.

 

[Heat_Fan89]

Microsoft’s no more likely to get out of consoles, than they are to shutter the Surface division. Console is the only place they can own the customer without competition - one may as well argue Apple get out of cellphones and Macs, and open the AppStores to Android and Windows.

I don't see them leaving the console space either. Regardless whether they trail Sony and Nintendo, the XBOX division is still profitable for them. Is it as profitable as Nintendo? Probably not but Sony even though they are still the global leader in high-end console sales, isn't killing it either wrt profits. Their business model is still legacy based, i.e. soak up losses on the hardware side and make up for it with 1st party sales and 3rd party sales via retail and their online store.

Nintendo is the true exception as they make a profit on each console sold even at launch and they rarely if ever reduce the price of their consoles with the exception of the Nintendo 3DS and that was primarily due to the introduction of iPad and iPhone and other mobile devices competing with Nintendo's handheld for game sales.

I'm thinking this will be nothing more than Spencer reconfirming that Microsoft is committed to the XBOX and future consoles and that their vision is to play their games on other platforms.

I personally saw this coming as it has been mentioned many times that Game Pass is unsustainable. During the Game Pass explosive growth period, Microsoft and the XBOX division have been very generous with their Microsoft Rewards points which you can redeem them for games, hardware purchases and other things such as Game Pass subscription purchases. The tap is NO longer flowing like it used to and now it is down to a trickle. So it is getting harder to acquire rewards points for future purchases.

 

[mattspace]

I don't see them leaving the console space either. Regardless whether they trail Sony and Nintendo, the XBOX division is still profitable for them. Is it as profitable as Nintendo? Probably not but Sony even though they are still the global leader in high-end console sales, isn't killing it either wrt profits. Their business model is still legacy based, i.e. soak up losses on the hardware side and make up for it with 1st party sales and 3rd party sales via retail and their online store.

Xbox gets them an easy console story for developers of Windows games, and vice versa. Gamedev studio I know that was a darling of Apple, and entirely focussed on mobile and Apple Arcade, is now pivoting to console / PC, and everyone working there is thrilled, because developing for mobile equals career stagnation.

Nintendo is the true exception as they make a profit on each console sold even at launch and they rarely if ever reduce the price of their consoles with the exception of the Nintendo 3DS and that was primarily due to the introduction of iPad and iPhone and other mobile devices competing with Nintendo's handheld for game sales.

Nintendo is interesting because they really don't compete with anyone but their last model console. They're more like a band, in that fans of the music will buy the new album, as held up against the "old stuff", but they don't choose between band a, and band b when it comes to buying music.

I'm thinking this will be nothing more than Spencer reconfirming that Microsoft is committed to the XBOX and future consoles and that their vision is to play their games on other platforms.

Microsoft Studios offers its games on all platforms, and "we believe that Xbox and PC provide the best experience", and if you want mobile gaming, you can get a handheld Windows PC, or stream to a phone / tablet.

I personally saw this coming as it has been mentioned many times that Game Pass is unsustainable. During the Game Pass explosive growth period, Microsoft and the XBOX division have been very generous with their Microsoft Rewards points which you can redeem them for games, hardware purchases and other things such as Game Pass subscription purchases. The tap is NO longer flowing like it used to and now it is down to a trickle. So it is getting harder to acquire rewards points for future purchases.

In what way is Game Pass unsustainable? You have huge numbers of people shelling out a decent chunk of cash every month, and probably having a higher annual spend from each of them than they would have made on game purchases, and it also acts as an extended demo service for people who might buy games later.

Why would you want existing Gamepass customers redeeming Gamepass rewards on hardware, if you're losing money on hardware?

 

[diamond.g]

Xbox gets them an easy console story for developers of Windows games, and vice versa. Gamedev studio I know that was a darling of Apple, and entirely focussed on mobile and Apple Arcade, is now pivoting to console / PC, and everyone working there is thrilled, because developing for mobile equals career stagnation.



Nintendo is interesting because they really don't compete with anyone but their last model console. They're more like a band, in that fans of the music will buy the new album, as held up against the "old stuff", but they don't choose between band a, and band b when it comes to buying music.



Microsoft Studios offers its games on all platforms, and "we believe that Xbox and PC provide the best experience", and if you want mobile gaming, you can get a handheld Windows PC, or stream to a phone / tablet.



In what way is Game Pass unsustainable? You have huge numbers of people shelling out a decent chunk of cash every month, and probably having a higher annual spend from each of them than they would have made on game purchases, and it also acts as an extended demo service for people who might buy games later.

Why would you want existing Gamepass customers redeeming Gamepass rewards on hardware, if you're losing money on hardware?

Didn't MS say it cost them a billion a year to get content (assuming they mean not their own stuff) on GamePass? That seems like a lot of money, are they making that back in subscriptions?

 

[mattspace]

Didn't MS say it cost them a billion a year to get content (assuming they mean not their own stuff) on GamePass? That seems like a lot of money, are they making that back in subscriptions?

They're making almost 3 billion / year in Gamepass subscription revenue on Xbox alone. Added to that is PC Gamepass, however much that makes.

 

[Heat_Fan89]

In what way is Game Pass unsustainable? You have huge numbers of people shelling out a decent chunk of cash every month, and probably having a higher annual spend from each of them than they would have made on game purchases, and it also acts as an extended demo service for people who might buy games later.

Because growth is finite. The explosive growth of Game Pass was due in part to Microsoft allowing gamers to convert their entire XBOX Live Gold accounts into Game Pass Ultimate for $1. I took advantage of that and converted my Gold account for $1 and I had almost three years of Gold subscription. That's three years worth of Game Pass Ultimate for $1 and that XBOX Gold account was acquired via cashing in MS Rewards points. Microsoft was being quite generous with their Microsoft Rewards program that incentivized gamers to rack up Rewards points to buy either monthly or 90 day Game Pass Ultimate subscriptions.

There's even a Rewards Hunter YT Channel dedicated to taking advantage of that.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=rewards+hunter

Reddit users also got in on the action as well. It began to spread like wildfire. Now Microsoft has countered by making it very difficult to rack up fast points and it is almost at the point where monthly points generated are almost equal to the purchase of a monthly GPU sub. Microsoft has even stated recently that gamers should not expect Diablo IV on Game Pass anytime soon.

Sony has made the point that when a game costs in excess of anywhere in between $100-300 million to make, it becomes a potential drain on the bottom line. Most of the games and I can say as a GPU subscriber are mostly low budget Indie games that makes it tough to keep gamers who actually pay, loyal to GPU when it costs them $180 per year. Microsoft hasn't been helpful either with 1st party games that have been underwhelming such as Redfall, Starfield and Forza Motorsport.

Edit: This is not intended at you. I do find the explanation and reasoning in this article quite interesting; how some on the internet might have already jumped to the wrong conclusion.

The Church Of Xbox Is Going Through Its Own Armageddon

A few rumors and reports were all it took for some console warriors to turn on Microsoft

kotaku.com

 

[mattspace]

Because growth is finite. The explosive growth of Game Pass was due in part to Microsoft allowing gamers to convert their entire XBOX Live Gold accounts into Game Pass Ultimate for $1. I took advantage of that and converted my Gold account for $1 and I had almost three years of Gold subscription. That's three years worth of Game Pass Ultimate for $1 and that XBOX Gold account was acquired via cashing in MS Rewards points. Microsoft was being quite generous with their Microsoft Rewards program that incentivized gamers to rack up Rewards points to buy either monthly or 90 day Game Pass Ultimate subscriptions.

Meh, I converted from Gold to Gamepass Ultimate, but honestly my time is worth more than the cost of Ultimate per month, so trying to find ways to pay less for it really doesn't enter the picture.

Growth doesn't have to be infinite - that's one of the biggest myths of modern corporatism. It's a profitable service, that's all it needs to be. What are you going to do, cancel it and buy games? Go back to discovering how many games have garbage control schemes, or insultingly stupid stories, or are "challenging" to the point of not being fun?

God, imagine if you'd bought Back 4 Blood thinking it was going to be even remotely like Left 4 Dead, because the publishers said it was, and instead of one of the most fun, best made videogames in history, you get a mediocre suffering simulator with none of the humour, writing, or fun that Left 4 Dead did so well.

Hell, NOT buying Back 4 Blood paid for 5 months of Ultimate.

Rewards are probably done, probably best to get over that.

There's even a Rewards Hunter YT Channel dedicated to taking advantage of that.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=rewards+hunter

Reddit users also got in on the action as well. It began to spread like wildfire. Now Microsoft has countered by making it very difficult to rack up fast points and it is almost at the point where monthly points generated are almost equal to the purchase of a monthly GPU sub. Microsoft has even stated recently that gamers should not expect Diablo IV on Game Pass anytime soon.

Yep well, that's over, but then again, maybe cutting loose the users who are scrabbling to nickel and dime the service, who no doubt are also the ones who complain loudest and fight hardest over the least, and are probably a fairly large venn overlap with the crap-talking kids you can hear in Xbox chat, maybe they're not such a loss. Maybe Gen X, & Y, folks who have more money than time due to their career stages, and have had videogames their entire lives, are where MS is thinking of moving?

Sony has made the point that when a game costs in excess of anywhere in between $100-300 million to make, it becomes a potential drain on the bottom line. Most of the games and I can say as a GPU subscriber are mostly low budget Indie games that makes it tough to keep gamers who actually pay, loyal to GPU when it costs them $180 per year. Microsoft hasn't been helpful either with 1st party games that have been underwhelming such as Redfall, Starfield and Forza Motorsport.

The Indy games are often the best games on the service. I look at my gametime - most of it is Halo Infinite for multiplayer, working my way through Master Cheif collection remotely with my partner, and GTA Online, which I've never played the single-player in the decade+ I've been playing back to the 360. For solo stuff - Generation Zero, which I started on Gamepass, but then bought with all the DLC, Stray, which is about the only game I bought without it being on Gamepass, Jusant & Sea of Solitude which I haven't bought yet, but will. Sable, Gamepassed and bought.

Far Cry games, Sniper Elite (bought 4, played 5).

BUT, never bothered with Redfall - it looks like it was made by a committee, Forza was a nice driving mechanic, but GTAO racing is more fun, and haven't tried Starfield.

But again, if I added up the value of all the games I downloaded played a bit, and really hated, that's a significant multiple of the money I've spent on Gamepass, and that's its primary value - it's cheaper than bad games.

The Church Of Xbox Is Going Through Its Own Armageddon

A few rumors and reports were all it took for some console warriors to turn on Microsoft

kotaku.com

I have never cared once in my life about a game being a "console exclusive" - I've bought consoles *for* particular games, but I would never have been upset if that same game was on more than one console.

"Exclusive games" are a sickness in the console industry, that is hopefully going away. I don't think that will effect the Xbox - its value proposition remains that it's a turnkey gaming PC, for about 1/4 to 1/2 the price of the equivalent PC if you were to buy the components and build it yourself.