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matrix07

macrumors G3
Jun 24, 2010
8,226
4,893
You don’t know anything about China
Yet I know “censoring out of practicality“ is the dumbest thing I‘ve read all day so congratulations I guess. 😂

It always amuses me when some Chinese defended their communist government like it cares about them. Chinese lives are worthless to Chinese government. Always were and always will be.
And I don’t need any cereal box for this knowledge. 😉
 
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avz

macrumors 68000
Oct 7, 2018
1,786
1,868
Stalingrad, Russia
Lmao you’re just like “nah bro you’re wrong” about what the perverse western media lies about on a constant basis. You don’t know anything about China. Go get some more information off the back of a cereal box.
The reality is that he can act this way because "They Can.". China de-facto agreed that US can supply weapons anywhere they want without being a party to the conflict. China don't have this "right" and will instantly become a party to the conflict if they decide to do so with a primary or secondary sanctions applied.

Never fear though, our comrades in North Korea are here to send a clear message to the US: "don't even think about it". No mixed "messages", no "you can cross as many red lines as you want" kind of BS. Looks like even Blinken is intelligent enough to get this "message".
 
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JungeQuex

macrumors regular
Sep 16, 2014
199
499
Yet I know “censoring out of practicality“ is the dumbest thing I‘ve read all day so congratulations I guess. 😂

It always amuses me when some Chinese defended their communist government like it cares about them. Chinese lives are worthless to Chinese government. Always were and always will be.
And I don’t need any cereal box for this knowledge. 😉
Yes, and American lives mean so much to the USA, right? Take a look around you. All of our cities are crumbling to the ground while China has built more high speed rail and highways in the last ten years to make Europe blush. Pathetic, this little box you "live" in.
 

AppliedMicro

macrumors 68020
Aug 17, 2008
2,284
2,607
Downloaded 17 million times a year for ten years in a country of over a billion. Haha wow such volume.
You forgot a zero there (see the original article).
Popularity is determined by a real government taking real action to uphold and improve the standard of living by a wide margin. Take a good look at 1930s Germany as another example.
A disturbingly apt comparison, I agree on that.
The Great Firewall has done well to protect China from external disinformation, the majority of Chinese people recognize and understand this because again, it turns out that contrary to what we're being told, China do something to help their own people and openly document the whole thing for everyone in their country to witness
If you're successful and transparent about it, you don't need a Great Firewall to protect people from information. Your actions would speak for themselves

Censorship is used to suppress and combat the spread of information and content deemed undesirable by the ruling government. Authoritarian governments never limit themselves to censoring only true "disinformation".

It's all about controlling the narrative. Given the tools, they just as much censor critical facts and unwelcome truths. Though they'll often claim and do it on the pretext of stopping "disinformation".
 
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JungeQuex

macrumors regular
Sep 16, 2014
199
499
You forgot a zero there (see the original article).

A disturbingly apt comparison, I agree on that.

If you're successful and transparent about it, you don't need a Great Firewall to protect people from information. Your actions would speak for themselves

Censorship is used to suppress and combat the spread of information and content deemed undesirable by the ruling government. Authoritarian governments never limit themselves to censoring only true "disinformation".

It's all about controlling the narrative. Given the tools, they just as much censor critical facts and unwelcome truths. Though they'll often claim and do it on the pretext of stopping "disinformation".
170 million times divided by 10 years is 17 million times a year. Yawn.

You people just keep glossing over the fact that they censor subversive foreign media. People don’t need access to the diarrhea post or the vomit times to tell them what to think about their own countries.
 

MYZ

macrumors regular
Nov 29, 2021
114
71
Canada
I would assume that a complete ban on third party app stores, or even just removing the ability to install something without an app store, is harder to enforce than just making it Apple's problem.

But of course there's no panacea and the sky's the limit if a repressive government really is dedicated enough.

Why would that be the case? Literally every other smartphone manufacturer has way less lobbying clout in Beijing than Apple, except maybe Huawei.
 
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zakarhino

Contributor
Sep 13, 2014
2,515
6,779
You forgot a zero there (see the original article).

A disturbingly apt comparison, I agree on that.

If you're successful and transparent about it, you don't need a Great Firewall to protect people from information. Your actions would speak for themselves

Censorship is used to suppress and combat the spread of information and content deemed undesirable by the ruling government. Authoritarian governments never limit themselves to censoring only true "disinformation".

It's all about controlling the narrative. Given the tools, they just as much censor critical facts and unwelcome truths. Though they'll often claim and do it on the pretext of stopping "disinformation".

You have no evidence that they're censoring "critical facts." It's simply more projection from the fears us westerns have of our own governments. The success of the Chinese government is clear to basically every single person in the world outside of the West and its allies, it is especially apparent to the Chinese people that experience the success firsthand. The real panic moment for the West right now is how many people might start waking up to the reality of China, because before long people will start demanding the same level of efficiency and effectiveness as the CPC, rather than the bloated, corrupt, and inert government we've had for decades.

Being successful and working to help your own people is not a sufficient barrier against bad actor backed color revolutions. If you believe this then why is there such a freakout over "Russian disinformation and bots" in both our elections and information regarding the Ukrainian war? If the actions of the Russians being imperialist aggressors (as our media claim: "Putin is trying to conquer Europe") are so obviously egregious and indefensible then why is there a concerted effort across social media to remove any messages that runs counter to the "obvious"? If it's obvious, why even bother blocking bots? We can very easily figure out what's true and what isn't, right? "Obvious"

If the actions of the Chinese government are so obviously bad and oppressive to their own people, why do I and billions of other people have a different assessment?
 

AppliedMicro

macrumors 68020
Aug 17, 2008
2,284
2,607
170 million times divided by 10 years is 17 million times a year
My bad.
You people just keep glossing over the fact that they censor subversive foreign media
…as if they‘d limit themselves to that. Labeling and condemning everything that does not fit into the government‘s narrative is old-school and basic playbook of authoritarian regimes.
People don’t need access to the diarrhea post or the vomit times to tell them what to think about their own countries.
They don‘t need that.
They don’t need to be fed government propaganda and be banned and shielded from every criticism either.

If they’re capable of independent and critical thinking.
In other words: the greatest (internal) threat and enemies of every authoritarian government.
 

AppliedMicro

macrumors 68020
Aug 17, 2008
2,284
2,607
You have no evidence that they're censoring "critical facts."
Are Google, YouTube and Wikipedia available in Mainland China?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_mainland_China

If not: why not? Are you going to soew the propaganda that they’re - and all of their content - only „subversive foreign“ actors?

why is there a concerted effort across social media to remove any messages that runs counter to the "obvious"? If it's obvious, why even bother blocking bots? We can very easily figure out what's true and what isn't, right? "Obvious"
Bots aren’t real people.
And there is ample opportunity to dissent on „Western“ social media.

You’re totally twisting facts here: „Western“ social media does not block people from Russian posting. Neither do they block users from China. It‘s the Russian and Chinese governments that block their own people from accessing foreign social media.
 
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ZZ Bottom

macrumors 6502a
Apr 14, 2010
829
258
No it isn’t. There is nothing logical about western concepts that exist only in the halls of academia.

You just can’t wrap your head around the fact that some groups of people want to see actual results from their government instead of a democracy cluster-f where nothing gets decided, nothing gets done, and when it’s time to do a project we have to go to committee to vote on what color uniform the workers will wear on the job.

You said a bunch of nothing and basically reiterated what the other guy said. It goes to show that you western drones are just as bad as the “chicoms” in your groupthink except you’re unable to push forward meaningful progress.

CCP is perfect! No one is allowed to say otherwise, or off to the slave gulag you go.

Yeah that sure sounds like a good government to be under.

I’ll take imperfect democracy over totalitarian imprisonment of the mind and body.
 

zakarhino

Contributor
Sep 13, 2014
2,515
6,779
😂😂😂

Yeah gong for money and living is not the same but what do you know? You’re just a lackey. A slave to dictatorial government. A perfect match! 😄

And I know full well Winnie the Pooh fears many things. You don’t need to tell me that. 😂

It's 2023 and you're still doing the 2012 Winnie the Pooh meme. I thought we put this one to bed after the media panicked because people started to notice Winnie the Pooh is NOT actually banned in China. Look, here's Chinese fans in China dressed as Winnie the Pooh and holding stuffed toys of him to support the Japanese skater Yuzuru Hanyu (he's a massive fan of Winnie the Pooh).

So we had to amend the clickbait headlines surrounding the whole Winnie the Pooh fiasco from "It's banned in China" to "Uhh well actually it's only banned in political contexts" because obviously the initial objective was to make it seem like Winnie the Pooh is banned OUTRIGHT in China.

 
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zakarhino

Contributor
Sep 13, 2014
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6,779
Are Google, YouTube and Wikipedia available in Mainland China?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_mainland_China

If not: why not?
Are you going to soew the propaganda that they’re only „subversive foreign“ actors?

Uhh yeah, you just hop on a VPN. Are you joking or something? Have you never come across masses of Chinese people commenting on YouTube videos? Why do some Chinese influencers in China have YouTube channels if it's so gravely illegal? Everyone on this forum was talking about the Geekerwan's YouTube video breakdown of the new A17 Pro chip a few days ago, did you not know they're a Chinese company? What about huge Chinese YouTubers that gets millions of views like:

https://www.youtube.com/@dianxixiaoge/videos

The Chinese "censoring" of Google and YouTube was partly about promoting domestic competitors over foreign companies because having a major part of your internet economy owned and operated by a foreign competitor is a major threat to sovereignty, which of course the USA is now only starting to worry about with chip manufacturing and concerns over so many kids on TikTok, a Chinese owned company. That's why China's "blocking" of those services is so loose and not enforced so strictly. Turns out the strategy worked very well, now their own companies do better domestically than the foreign ones (Google is accessible in China via the Hong Kong domain but nobody uses it, they have less than 3% market share). Don't talk about China "blocking" YouTube if you have any concerns whatsoever over TikTok's influence over the youth.

As for the joke website that is Wikipedia, do I ever need to explain this one? Ironically, Wikipedia's greatest 'strength' in letting anyone edit it is also its greatest weakness. There's a reason we were all told in school not to use Wikipedia as a source when writing essays.

Why is there a single random account editing political wikipedia pages at a super human rate? Almost as if it's not actually a guy called "Phillip Cross" but a political institution fixing the narrative in their favor.


Why is sewing misinformation in Wikipedia such an easy thing to do that there's an entire market dedicated to it?



Political groups amassing Wikipedia edit armies to edit in their favor. Again, there are countless examples of how fragile Wikipedia is. It's highly susceptible to propaganda, only most people don't notice it because that's why the propaganda is effective. I mean look at you, you think China is an authoritarian nightmare state where everyone is miserable, hates the government, and hates the political policies when that could not be further from the truth. That view was 100% formed in part thanks to our media, Google "facts", and Wikipedia "facts"

 
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AppliedMicro

macrumors 68020
Aug 17, 2008
2,284
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Uhh yeah, you just hop on a VPN. Are you joking or something? Have you never come across masses of Chinese people commenting on YouTube videos? Why do some Chinese influencers in China have YouTube channels if it's so gravely illegal?
The fact that some technology-savvy people can circumvent blocks doesn’t mean that the government doesn’t block. And they’ve been cracking down on VPN apps, too:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-vpn-idUSKBN1AE0BQ

That doesn’t mean that you can’t get a VPN connection - but again, makes it harder to impossible for the average, non computer-savvy person.

As for the joke website that is Wikipedia, do I ever need to explain this one?
You don‘t explain - you provide whataboutism.
Wikipedia far from perfect, I‘ve butted heads with Wikipedia „moderators“ and their stance before, and there’s definitely biased info to be found.

That said, governments that respect freedom and civil rights, tolerate dissent and allow access to dissenting information don’t block Google or Wikipedia. If you allow freedom of opinion, freedom of speech and the press, inevitably some wrong, biased or subversive information will be said or written.
 
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zakarhino

Contributor
Sep 13, 2014
2,515
6,779
The fact that some technology-savvy people can circumvent blocks doesn’t mean that the government doesn’t block. And they’ve been cracking down on VPN apps, too:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-vpn-idUSKBN1AE0BQ

That doesn’t mean that you can’t get a VPN connection - but again, makes it harder to impossible for the average, non computer-savvy person.


You don‘t explain - you provide whataboutism.
It’s far from perfect, and I‘ve butted heads with Wikipedia „moderators“ and their stance before.

You just asked me if Wikipedia is banned. Not only did I demonstrate that it's accessible to people with a VPN (every 12 year old I know in America knows what these are so no "tech savvy" credential required) I also gave you a solid reason WHY it's banned by showing you how easy it is to propagandize by third parties. Can you explain in detail why that's whataboutism rather than a direct response to your point? Did you want me to say "yes" or something? Why state the obvious when you already answered that in the Wikipedia page you linked rather than develop the conversation further?

Here you go, here's a direct Wikipedia page live on their website right now that attempts to present a blatant and disgusting lie as fact:


That said, governments that respect liberty, tolerate dissent and allow access to dissenting information don’t block Google or Wikipedia.

Do you have a source for that? Sounds like disinformation to me. Can you tell me which countries "tolerate dissent and respect liberty" that also don't block Google or Wikipedia?
 
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AppliedMicro

macrumors 68020
Aug 17, 2008
2,284
2,607
You just asked me if Wikipedia is banned. Not only did I demonstrate that it's accessible to people with a VPN
So what? Doesn’t change the fact that it‘s banned.
And they’re actively trying to block VPNs too.

I also gave you a solid reason WHY it's banned
Only a tiny-fraction of Wikipedia is ban-worthy - or political at all. Again: If you allow freedom of opinion, freedom of speech and the press, inevitably some wrong, biased or subversive information will be said or written. Authoritarian regimes will be heavy-handed in blocking sites altogether - cause their population could read information that they want to prevent them from accessing at all costs. They don‘t want independently-thinking individuals (when it comes to politics).

why that's whataboutism
Admittedly, that may not be the best term - 99.9% or so of Wikipedia is apolitical or of relevance to Chinese politics. But you’re referring to very isolated individual articles that depict China in a negative light - and it’s telling that they feel the need to block the whole site for these few articles.


Here you go, here's a direct Wikipedia page live on their website right now that attempts to present the a blatant and disgusting lie as fact:
If that’s such a blatant, obvious and well-known lie to the Chinese people, there would be no need to block the whole site.
 
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matrix07

macrumors G3
Jun 24, 2010
8,226
4,893
It's 2023 and you're still doing the 2012 Winnie the Pooh meme. I thought we put this one to bed after the media panicked because people started to notice Winnie the Pooh is NOT actually banned in China. Look, here's Chinese fans in China dressed as Winnie the Pooh and holding stuffed toys of him to support the Japanese skater Yuzuru Hanyu (he's a massive fan of Winnie the Pooh).
Good for them! He still looks like Winnie the Pooh though. No denying the fact. 😂
 
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unclemax

macrumors 6502
Sep 25, 2015
289
247
Lmao you’re just like “nah bro you’re wrong” about what the perverse western media lies about on a constant basis. You don’t know anything about China. Go get some more information off the back of a cereal box.
I bet you don’t even live in China, and never have, like most “western” CCP apologists. Just reflect on the fact that posting your nonsense here you’re enjoying “western” freedom of speech. What would happen to someone in China if they criticize China? 1) Get mobbed by butthurt nationalists and 2) get a visit from police
 
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unclemax

macrumors 6502
Sep 25, 2015
289
247
It’s not fear, it’s reaction to subversion by a foreign power. The end. When you have cancer on your body you remove it, it’s not based in fear but pragmatism.
Has anyone shown any subversion from foreign media, or is it just one of those claims that CCP apologists like you throw around?

You know, from experience, when BBC reported about Chinese business recordings racist videos with African children in exchange for money from Chinese netizens, many locals here also got up in arms and were hysterical about BBC being “biased”, even though the story was 100% factual. It’s just when reporting about China is not censored and airbrushed like they are used to, locals get shocked and buttblasted, and scream bloody murder.
 
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zakarhino

Contributor
Sep 13, 2014
2,515
6,779

You'll never wrap your head around the fact that China is a pragmatic country and not a dogmatic one. That was the whole thesis of Deng Xiaoping, to be pragmatic rather than dogmatic. To balance Mao Zedong Thought with Western free market capitalism; to build China's domestic industry and uplift their people from poverty and desolation into prosperity and freedom.

You will never understand the difference between what something is in the real, material world vs. what something claims to be in an imagined, ideal world. That's why you don't understand how a country could block something officially but retain access to it via a VPN: because it gets the job done of protecting national interests. Practically. Pragmatically. This is observable fact when you take a look at the reality of China's domestic industry outpacing foreign competitors in many sectors (Western companies always complain about this, how they cannot compete because of state backed help in China) and separately their resilience to foreign interference (as the CIA confessed: China is now impenetrable on a societal, there is zero possibility of influencing their people to be against the CPC).

Highway speed limits must confuse you for the same reason: "I don't get it, if people can technically break the speed limit, what's the point of the speed limit?" It doesn't matter because in the real world it gets the job done, everyone understands why we have them, there is no mass sentiment against them, and life continues.

You don't actually care about free speech itself, you care about it because you think it grants you "freedom" and therefore grants you a prosperous life. In your imagined world, absolute free speech is the fulcrum of living in a free society when the reality is your "free speech" is powerless in eliminating the material conditions of extreme debt, crime, and further degradation of industrial capability/infrastructure: you are not "free" from any of those things. You think "free speech" is the fulcrum because it enables a critique of those things which must be a prerequisite to doing something about them, when the reality is it does nothing.

Ask the rail strikers if free speech helped them stop our government from making it illegal for them to strike in 2022, a breathtaking violation of labor rights. There are protests all the time but they lead to nothing in our country, just further degradation and red tape. Our quality of life and satisfaction with our government continues to drop.

Meanwhile in China protesting is taken seriously and the government reacts with new policies when people protest. This is an undeniable fact because again we can take a look at the material reality of China and how the quality of life and satisfaction in their government/system continues to rise despite protests. That must mean protests in China are an effective form of doing something about societal problems, and doing something about societal problems is the point of free speech, right? But let me guess 1 billion people are lying about being satisfied because they're afraid of being put in a gulag and the bullet trains and megacities for housing people are all CGI to fool the West into thinking China is great. Yeah, likely story.

You will NEVER accept this reality which is why the propagandists at NYT/Fox/Whoever have such an easy job: they know you don't want to accept it because that would mean a complete breakdown of your world model. You'll start asking yourself: well if Chinese people ARE continuing to live better and better lives with no practical downside all without subscribing to our ideological dogmatism, what exactly are the benefits of our own system?

Do you get it now? The Chinese system is designed around the material and practical needs of its people. Ours, the one you defend, is designed around an ideal and imagined notion of liberty that doesn't translate to a better quality of life, in fact our quality of life is degrading over time.

Chinese materialism vs. American idealism. The practical vs. the "delusional."



MY COMEDY FILM:

I have this image in my head of the propagandized Westerns shouting at the top of their lungs:

"You guys are not free! You're living in an authoritarian hell state! Don't you get it? You can't read about whales on Wikipedia without using a VPN! Don't you get it? You can't call your President Winnie the Pooh! Don't you get it? You guys only have ONE political party not two like us, how can you possibly live in country that actually listens to you if you don't get to pick your favorite color every 4 years: red or blue!?"

And on the other end there's Chinese people sitting in a bullet train going 300mph, people getting their lunch delivered by drone, people walking down a clean street without the risk of getting mugged and stabbed by a crackhead, people being able to afford apartments and houses to raise their families in, people rapidly and frequently building mega infrastructure like miles long bridges that go through mountains, flying cars everywhere, people pushing technological innovation in the smartphone and EV market, the list goes on and on and on.

And then we turn back to the Westerner who says:

"Well you know what? All of those people are actually oppressed by the government that enabled all those things for them. Because at least in my country we can talk freely about how bad everything is getting! Yes, whenever we try to do something with that free speech like organize a rail worker strike we get crushed by our authoritarian regime that literally made it illegal for us to continue striking but hey, at least we can talk about it!!! Screw bullet trains and affordable housing, I wanna TALK some more!"

Delusional indeed.
 
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zakarhino

Contributor
Sep 13, 2014
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Now you’re desperate. 😂 Shortage of Chinese propaganda on the issue? You should report to your Chinese superiors to work on it. 😉

I'm such an effective Chinese propagandist that I spent years on this very forum slandering China and saying our government wants to turn us into an authoritarian state just like China. That was my line for pushing back against Apple's plans to scan iCloud images, I said it would open the doors to our government being like evil China which puts everyone in a gulag and welds their doors shut during covid or whatever we were pretending they were doing back then.

But yeah maybe I'll come around to your mode of thinking: just pretend everyone in China is begging for us to liberate them and anyone who denies it is a bot running on Evil Emperor Xi's MacBook Pr- AHEM, excuse me Huawei laptop ;) I can see why it would be entertaining and enjoyable actually.

matrix07, you should report to your CIA superiors and come up with better retorts bro!!! :p
 
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zakarhino

Contributor
Sep 13, 2014
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So what? Doesn’t change the fact that it‘s banned.
And they’re actively trying to block VPNs too.


Only a tiny-fraction of Wikipedia is ban-worthy - or political at all. Again: If you allow freedom of opinion, freedom of speech and the press, inevitably some wrong, biased or subversive information will be said or written. Authoritarian regimes will be heavy-handed in blocking sites altogether - cause their population could read information that they want to prevent them from accessing at all costs. They don‘t want independently-thinking individuals (when it comes to politics).


Admittedly, that may not be the best term - 99.9% or so of Wikipedia is apolitical or of relevance to Chinese politics. But you’re referring to very isolated individual articles that depict China in a negative light - and it’s telling that they feel the need to block the whole site for these few articles.



If that’s such a blatant, obvious and well-known lie to the Chinese people, there would be no need to block the whole site.

It doesn't matter bro, in 10 years they're all going to be zooming around in XPeng flying cars and we'll all still be here watching our bridges collapse complaining about censorship on their behalf when nobody there cares about it. Just accept the reality that any perceived negative of censorship over there is meaningless when the positives of their system and government significantly outweigh them.

Are you really saying you think being able to call Xi Jinping Winnie the Pooh is more valuable to you than the massive list of upsides in their society like affordable housing, clean streets, no muggings, no unstable drug addicts harassing people on the street, the best and most expansive public infrastructure in the world, etc.?
 
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matrix07

macrumors G3
Jun 24, 2010
8,226
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But yeah maybe I'll come around to your mode of thinking: just pretend everyone in China is begging for us to liberate them and anyone who denies it is a bot running on Evil Emperor Xi's MacBook Pr- AHEM, excuse me Huawei laptop ;) I can see why it would be entertaining and enjoyable actually.
Yeah, you’re assuming too much. I don’t care at all about them. I just know what they’re like.
Perhaps you don’t know that your argument “a website is not banned because someone can access it through VPN” has shredded your credibility to pieces. Denying all you want. We’re not a fool.
I can understand a Chinese guy wanting to defend his country. Patriotism still is a virtue anyway. But a foreigner trying to defend this evil totalitarian regime? That’s lower than low.
 
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zakarhino

Contributor
Sep 13, 2014
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6,779
Yeah, you’re assuming too much. I don’t care at all about them. I just know what they’re like.
Perhaps you don’t know that your argument “a website is not banned because someone can access it through VPN” has shredded your credibility to pieces. Denying all you want. We’re not a fool.
I can understand a Chinese guy wanting to defend his country. Patriotism still is a virtue anyway. But a foreigner trying to defend this evil totalitarian state? That’s lower than low.t.

"Was alcohol banned during prohibition?" Yes (law)
"Was alcohol available during prohibition?" Yes (moonshine)

Two different questions.

"Are these websites available?" Yes (VPN)
"Are these websites blocked?" Yes (Great Firewall)

Two different questions.

See? It's a reading comprehension problem (aka, not my problem). It's actually quite simple when you break it down because the original guy asked "is X available?" which is not the same as "is X banned?", the latter of which he already answered in his post. I'll forgive you for getting confused because it doesn't seem like English is your first language ("We're not a fool" should be "I'm not a fool" or "We're not fools" for plural) but the ignore works because it saves me from explaining English rather than focusing on the main subject.

But please continue coping and screaming about China, which you are totally right about being an "evil totalitarian state" because the TV told you about it. It's a very very evil country and I too hope we can liberate them soon from their crime free megacities. We need boots on the ground NOW to help them, it's imperative. Why the hell aren't NATO doing anything to save them from themselves!? Yes, we're trying to control the South China Sea on the other side of the planet to block their shipping ports but we need BOOTS and NUKES on the ground NOW!

Here's a video of them being oppressed. You probably already know this but the only reason they're not allowed to beg the cameraman for help is they'll get put in a gulag and their social credit score gets reset (if it goes below 0, their home gets blown up with a comically big stick of dynamite like from Looney Tunes, this was the personal decree of Mao himself after watching Looney Tunes)

 
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AppliedMicro

macrumors 68020
Aug 17, 2008
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That's why you don't understand how a country could block something officially but retain access to it via a VPN: because it gets the job done of protecting national interests. Practically. Pragmatically
Exactly: It gets the job done. Denying access to factual information that's unbiased and may be against the party line.
So much for all your comments about VPNs obscuring the facts: Censorship gets the job done.
That must mean protests in China are an effective form of doing something about societal problems
Effective protests need organisation.
That's why China is so harshly cracking down on unfiltered file sharing and even free travel in the country...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...lesharing-feature-used-by-protesters-in-china
https://www.macrumors.com/2022/11/10/airdrop-10-minute-limit-to-expand-globally/

Crowded areas like the local shopping mall... no, doesn't sound of subversive foreign actors.
You'll never wrap your head around the fact that China is a pragmatic country and not a dogmatic one
It clearly is adhering to a dogma: Economic development and prosperity at the cost of everything else.

There is absolutely no denying that China has made great economic strides and built incredible infrastructure over the last few decades - but they have done so restricting freedoms and quelling any dissent.

👉 China has been prioritising economic development over individual freedom and liberty. But not just that - they're actively restricting freedom and liberty, claiming branding them as "subverting" their path to economic prosperity.

That's just a dogma that many people in western societies don't subscribe to.
It's still something that can be wildly popular in countries that are developing quickly from relative poverty.
Are you really saying you think being able to call Xi Jinping Winnie the Pooh is more valuable to you than the massive list of upsides in their society like affordable housing
AFAIK, that's considered racist - so don't drag me into this.
 
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