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RalfTheDog

macrumors 68020
Feb 23, 2010
2,115
1,869
Lagrange Point
If they want to make this even more secure, don't just encrypt the push notifications, delay them for a random amount of time. It could be one second, it could be 1.7326 seconds. That way, they can't look at, "Person A sent a message. At almost the exact same time, person B received a message." This is how they analyze traffic patterns to see who is talking to who.
 
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siddavis

macrumors 6502a
Feb 23, 2009
864
2,906
We've been doing this in our non-communist countries for close to a century and yet still no communism, just more of a gradual tilt towards feudalism if anything. Man that commie road sure is long, winding, and taking plenty of detours. These Western communists must really suck if all they've managed to do is bolster corporate interests and make the country even more terrified of The Great Communist Threat™️ from China.
Guess you can't see the slow roll:
 
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hooptyuber

macrumors regular
Jan 21, 2017
222
287
We've been doing this in our non-communist countries for close to a century and yet still no communism, just more of a gradual tilt towards feudalism if anything. Man that commie road sure is long, winding, and taking plenty of detours. These Western communists must really suck if all they've managed to do is bolster corporate interests and make the country even more terrified of The Great Communist Threat™️ from China.
Yes, it's important to stand up for communism and defend it against unfair slurs. :rolleyes:
 

bergert

macrumors 6502
Jun 24, 2008
264
149
Won't developers of apps like Signal and Telegram that are supposed to be secure have thought of this and be careful how they construct their push notifications?
Metadata is interesting too: user A had no notifications, and user B received 327 notifications in the week prior to Jan,06 (US capitol riot). This is assuming the notfication text is encrypted = cannot be reported.
 
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trusso

macrumors 6502a
Oct 4, 2003
766
2,281
Unsurprising yet still sickening.

When governments force companies, private citizens, to keep secrets from the public, you know you're on the road to communism or worse.

There is a reason we have a court system with judicial oversight. The reason is to allow the subject...er suspect, a reasonable defense on government overreach.

When the citizens of a country are required to be complicit, yet must also remain quiet about their actions in support of government, that itself is a crime against the people.

Kudos to the whistle blower. Hopefully there will be some congressional hearings on this behavior.


Added Note: I have no issue with a hidden warrant. That is a tool used for criminal investigation. My problem is prohibiting companies from acknowledging what is being asked of them, even without disclosing whom the suspect(s) may be.

Furthermore, the worse crime, in this case, is blanket surveillance without evidence a crime was committed. In the US, the constitution prohibits such arbitrary abuse of law enforcement. Our judicial system allows for criminal investigation, the key word being criminal, as in a crime has been committed and therefore government must investigate the crime and prosecute the offenders. It prohibits personal investigation where the government investigates an individual, often for less than ethical reasons (such a political opponent of the investigator or investigating agency) looking to find, or, more often, looking to charge someone of anything that they can convince the public was a crime.
In principle, I agree with you.

In practice, you've got MAGA written all over this.

Disgusting.
 

jicon

macrumors 6502a
Nov 29, 2004
800
619
Toronto, ON
Russia
China
the entire EU

I mean seriously, any country without a constitution prohibiting this is likely involved in this behavior. I wouldn't put this past Canada or Australia.

Mexico? I doubt they have the manpower to deal with this. They can't even track stop the corruption within a municipal office, let alone tracking millions of people. Maybe the drug lords use this stuff. I wouldn't put it past Apple to deal with the mob if they could earn a profit doing so.
Not surprising. Years ago key to this sort of stuff was offloading the scanning to another country. If you don't directly track your own citizens, get another country to report back to you on suspicious activity. US and Canada I believe had such an agreement monitoring phone calls if I recall correctly.
 

wbrat

macrumors regular
Sep 18, 2014
217
196
Unfortunately Apple must follow the laws of the countries they operate in.
But they are literally saying: we didn’t put it into the transparency report because we were told not to be transparent… so what is the point of such reports? They should have at least state in the report that there is a security related issue but we are not allowed to talk about it.
 

singularity0993

macrumors regular
Oct 15, 2020
157
761
But they are literally saying: we didn’t put it into the transparency report because we were told not to be transparent… so what is the point of such reports? They should have at least state in the report that there is a security related issue but we are not allowed to talk about it.
There is no reason to trust those transparency reports. The US and its allies have been conducting surveillance through tech companies the whole time and I see no reason for them to stop.
 

brijazz

macrumors 6502
Jul 31, 2008
385
423
No the notifications are sent from a third party and routed through Apple's servers to actually get to the iPhone. When a dev sends a notification, they send it to Apple and Apple delivers it to you. That's the point of this article. So yes, while I agree with OP that a Little Snitch style easy firewall for iOS would be awesome, unless you're blocking Apple's servers (which renders the iPhone useless) a firewall does nothing on this one.
Thanks for clarifying!
 

DFZD

macrumors 65816
Apr 6, 2012
1,069
2,924
Breaking News :
Governments caught doing governmenty sh*t again.
In another news here’s a photo of a cute kitten.

1701880418470.png
 

ipaqrat

macrumors 6502
Mar 28, 2017
302
325
Won't developers of apps like Signal and Telegram that are supposed to be secure have thought of this and be careful how they construct their push notifications?
Alert tracking is particularly helpful for apps like Signal and Telegram (In fact, if their encryption is as branded, then it's the ONLY help a government would have). Alerts aren't merely software architecture, they ride INFRASTRUCTURE, some of which includes open air transmission. There's simply no other way it can work. Any use of connected tech, whatsoever, is technically self doxxing.

Much like we should all assume that ALL governments are engaging in this sort of deep-cross referencing, governments assume that users of apps like signal/telegram generally (A.) misapprehend the tech, (B.) have something to hide, or (C.) are the sort of troublemakers doing something else nefarious. That's where government humint, sigint and osint lives.
In principle, I agree with you.

In practice, you've got MAGA written all over this.

Disgusting.
Meh, MacProFCP's post reads like a basic, idealistic, principal of live and let live. It's TOTALLY never, ever happened that way, of course, but it's a noble principle.

This doesn't merit a dodgy MAGA label. Not even close. All such labels are contrived to loop in folks with short attention spans and anxiety they're desperate to aim at something. This kind of B.S. culture war labeling gets stretched out of shape along with Cancel, Woke and Lives Matter. They're thrown loosely at anything and everything, by folks in their bubbles, getting into a snit.

Folks who invent such branding, and folks who identify with it, are probably also cross referenced in for scrutiny by government humint, sigint and osint analysts, who now also have better AI tools, so good luck with your anonymity. And now they got me, too, for commenting. D'oh!
 

npmacuser5

macrumors 68000
Apr 10, 2015
1,777
2,012
Last week my systems blocked over 25,000 tracking ads. That is just the blocked ones. The really creative international government ones most likely got through. Welcome to the new world order, we have no privacy rights anymore.
 
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ryan102

macrumors regular
Sep 27, 2009
183
177
I honestly believe majority of the public are stupid when it comes to Privacy.

I guarantee this isn't the only method, it just happens to be the one the one that has has come out. Apple/Microsoft/Google Etc are all sharing our data with the Govt's behind the scenes and when eventually it comes out, we'll be told they've stopped doing it and they'll just carrying on & the cycle will keep repeating.
 

Jim Lahey

macrumors 68030
Apr 8, 2014
2,627
5,386
Are y’all getting it yet? Anyone who still thinks their ‘government’ is a benevolent entity has been asleep at the wheel of life for at least four years. Likewise, anyone who thought that Apple would resist the state meddling in the private affairs of their users.
 
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M5RahuL

macrumors 68040
Aug 1, 2009
3,415
2,045
TeXaS
I honestly believe majority of the public are stupid when it comes to Privacy.

I guarantee this isn't the only method, it just happens to be the one the one that has has come out. Apple/Microsoft/Google Etc are all sharing our data with the Govt's behind the scenes and when eventually it comes out, we'll be told they've stopped doing it and they'll just carrying on & the cycle will keep repeating.
100%
 

Skyscraperfan

macrumors 6502a
Oct 13, 2021
768
2,165
I was not even aware that those notifications go through the servers of Apple or Google. Why should Apple or Google be involved if I get a notification from WhatsApp for a new message? Seems like a good reason to disable all push notifications.
 

JosephAW

macrumors 603
May 14, 2012
5,998
7,961
I'm already on the list, I have a shared meme album on iCloud, they probably been tracking me for years, at least I give them a good laugh:p
 
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