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FineWoven

macrumors member
Sep 18, 2023
97
118
Hmph.
Who would’ve guessed.
Make first gen unit costing $2000 or a bit lower maybe can spur more interests.
Apple probably thought they could’ve just copied the glory of iPhone 1 release. But there’s no carrier subsidy. I don’t know what they are thinking.
If this thing was half the price it would be of much greater interest to me. But for 4 grand I can buy one helluva home theater setup which we are constantly told by the industry that this category of consumer electronics (AR/VR) is supposed to supplant.
 

Silverado

macrumors regular
Jul 12, 2008
205
191
It’s good to know that this forum is full of people who know a lot more than Apple how to do market analysis and penetration estimates for new products. 🙄🤣

It’s just funny to see so many know-it-alls claim to have known all along that 800k or whatever is too many. Give me a break.

So, except for anyone with actual experience with actual numbers for this market and for companies the size of Apple, I would respectfully say that these opinions are not worth much.

Beyond that, the report says that Apple scaled back their shipments. Would it have been better if they underestimated and got caught flat-footed?

And there is an assumption that Apple is losing money by revising these estimates. Apple knows extremely well how to manage supply chains and costs. So, again, with respect, unless you actually have more experience, thank you for your opinion, but it’s not worth much.
 

sparksd

macrumors G3
Jun 7, 2015
9,189
29,200
Seattle WA
It’s good to know that this forum is full of people who know a lot more than Apple how to do market analysis and penetration estimates for new products. 🙄🤣

It’s just funny to see so many know-it-alls claim to have known all along that 800k or whatever is too many. Give me a break.

So, except for anyone with actual experience with actual numbers for this market and for companies the size of Apple, I would respectfully say that these opinions are not worth much.

Beyond that, the report says that Apple scaled back their shipments. Would it have been better if they underestimated and got caught flat-footed?

And there is an assumption that Apple is losing money by revising these estimates. Apple knows extremely well how to manage supply chains and costs. So, again, with respect, unless you actually have more experience, thank you for your opinion, but it’s not worth much.

And ... thanks for your opinion? Is it worth enough to buy a cup of coffee with?
 
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cfountain72

macrumors regular
Dec 5, 2002
142
163
Tampa, FL
I tried it out at a conference. I can't speak for others, but as work tool, I need something that gives me fewer, not more, distractions. It is neat having windows all over the place, but it seems like a very niche product for a certain sub-segment of users. I credit them for taking a (very expensive) leap, but it's not for me.
 
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NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
14,735
21,376
I tried it out at a conference. I can't speak for others, but as work tool, I need something that gives me fewer, not more, distractions. It is neat having windows all over the place, but it seems like a very niche product for a certain sub-segment of users. I credit them for taking a (very expensive) leap, but it's not for me.
Just throwing this out there...you realize you can make the environment as cluttered or distraction free as *you* choose right? Like you can literally use one of the Environments and a single window if that's your preferred workflow.
 
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Silverado

macrumors regular
Jul 12, 2008
205
191
And ... thanks for your opinion? Is it worth enough to buy a cup of coffee with?
I think my opinion (that Apple is better at estimating this stuff than the non-experts in this group) is worth a lot more than the opinion of those non-experts on whether 800k units was a good estimate.
 

sparksd

macrumors G3
Jun 7, 2015
9,189
29,200
Seattle WA
I think my opinion (that Apple is better at estimating this stuff than the non-experts in this group) is worth a lot more than the opinion of those non-experts on whether 800k units was a good estimate.

lol, sure it is. Keep telling yourself that you're the expert.
 

cfountain72

macrumors regular
Dec 5, 2002
142
163
Tampa, FL
Just throwing this out there...you realize you can make the environment as cluttered or distraction free as *you* choose right? Like you can literally use one of the Environments and a single window if that's your preferred workflow.
Yes, I understand. But if I reduce it to one screen...then why not just use the real screen in front of me now?
 

egdiroh

macrumors member
Jun 29, 2004
49
48
This isn't even available globally yet. You're going to see very few in some markets. Maybe visionOS 2 has enough changes that they took the localization teams off of localizing visionOS 1, and now they are all on 2, so there will be a delay in adding additional markets
 

Zwhaler

macrumors 604
Jun 10, 2006
7,115
1,624
The Quest 3 is nowhere near what this or its product category are focused on. Magic Leap and HoloLens are never compared to a Quest 3 for a reason.
They did though, they're both headsets. It's like comparing an entry level PC laptop to a gaming laptop. They both belong to the laptop category.
 

richinaus

macrumors 68020
Oct 26, 2014
2,385
2,141
It’s good to know that this forum is full of people who know a lot more than Apple how to do market analysis and penetration estimates for new products. 🙄🤣

It’s just funny to see so many know-it-alls claim to have known all along that 800k or whatever is too many. Give me a break.

So, except for anyone with actual experience with actual numbers for this market and for companies the size of Apple, I would respectfully say that these opinions are not worth much.

Beyond that, the report says that Apple scaled back their shipments. Would it have been better if they underestimated and got caught flat-footed?

And there is an assumption that Apple is losing money by revising these estimates. Apple knows extremely well how to manage supply chains and costs. So, again, with respect, unless you actually have more experience, thank you for your opinion, but it’s not worth much.
Apple are fully capable to knowing and understanding their roadmap and market. Also knowledge of the capabilities of the software available and what can and may be possible, allows me to be confident on the AVP future, despite the opinions of those who look at the current hardware and situation at face value [as that is all they have].
 

Silverado

macrumors regular
Jul 12, 2008
205
191
apple invested tons of money and resources into a failure.
No. It’s an investment into a new product category that will pay off handsomely in time. $1.5 billion+ in revenue is not too shabby for the first iteration that’s priced beyond the reach of regular consumers.
 
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NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
14,735
21,376
No. It’s an investment into a new product category that will pay off handsomely in time. $1.5 billion+ in revenue is not too shabby for the first iteration that’s priced beyond the reach of regular consumers.
It’s amazing to me that a website that caters to Apple interested people still haven’t picked up the cadence of how Apple enters a new product category.

1. Introduce with features that the existing competition doesn’t have.

2. *Rapidly* iterate on the software and eventually hardware over the next two generations while the competition struggles to match the 1st gen because their business models simply don’t allow for a hardware-first approach. (We’re going to see that the R1 sensor fusion capabilities are the “secret sauce” that nobody will be able to replicate for a few years)

3. The more capable, less costly version is released from Apple, it’s a massive hit (compared to the other offerings in the category), and everyone simply forgets the teeth gnashing of the tech world that was wailing about gen 1.

I’m only 33, I’ve seen this cycle 3 times already in *my* short lifetime. How has MR as a whole not understood this yet?

AVP was and is the MVP (minimal viable product) for the experience that Apple wants to bring into the world. People are speculating about whether it’s a hit or not but that *doesn’t* matter. Apple is already years into designing gen 2, AND the actual mass market version of this (which will likely be glasses, 5+ years down the road when meta lens technology is ready for production).

Apple already knows what gen 2 is, the hardware is likely already in some stage of validation testing if not production line considerations for late next year or early 2026. You don’t manufacture at the scale Apple does without having all these pieces more or less locked in years in advance.
 

vipergts2207

macrumors 601
Apr 7, 2009
4,368
9,725
Columbus, OH
It’s amazing to me that a website that caters to Apple interested people still haven’t picked up the cadence of how Apple enters a new product category.

1. Introduce with features that the existing competition doesn’t have.

2. *Rapidly* iterate on the software and eventually hardware over the next two generations while the competition struggles to match the 1st gen because their business models simply don’t allow for a hardware-first approach. (We’re going to see that the R1 sensor fusion capabilities are the “secret sauce” that nobody will be able to replicate for a few years)

3. The more capable, less costly version is released from Apple, it’s a massive hit (compared to the other offerings in the category), and everyone simply forgets the teeth gnashing of the tech world that was wailing about gen 1.

I’m only 33, I’ve seen this cycle 3 times already in *my* short lifetime. How has MR as a whole not understood this yet?

AVP was and is the MVP (minimal viable product) for the experience that Apple wants to bring into the world. People are speculating about whether it’s a hit or not but that *doesn’t* matter. Apple is already years into designing gen 2, AND the actual mass market version of this (which will likely be glasses, 5+ years down the road when meta lens technology is ready for production).

Apple already knows what gen 2 is, the hardware is likely already in some stage of validation testing if not production line considerations for late next year or early 2026. You don’t manufacture at the scale Apple does without having all these pieces more or less locked in years in advance.
Why didn’t you include the part where the product is affordable to a broad swath of the population and matches the value that people can expect to get from the product. Maybe because that’s not the case here? The iPod and iPhone were priced as premium products, to be sure. They weren’t priced into the stratosphere and cost people the equivalent of a few mortgage/rent payments.

Definitely bookmarking this one lol.
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
14,735
21,376
Why didn’t you include the part where the product is affordable to a broad swath of the population and matches the value that people can expect to get from the product. Maybe because that’s not the case here? The iPod and iPhone were priced as premium products, to be sure. They weren’t priced into the stratosphere and cost people the equivalent of a few mortgage/rent payments.

Definitely bookmarking this one lol.
Number 3.

I know you understand how economies of scale work, you’re a smart guy. The BOM for this level of technology is not going to stick to nearly $1400 (current estimates) forever.

Bookmark away. Feel free to revisit in 3 years and 5 years respectively. I’ll send you something fun if the legacy of AVP hasn’t become a massive technological milestone we all look back at by then 🤷‍♂️
 

vipergts2207

macrumors 601
Apr 7, 2009
4,368
9,725
Columbus, OH
Number 3.

I know you understand how economies of scale work, you’re a smart guy. The BOM for this level of technology is not going to stick to nearly $1400 (current estimates) forever.

Bookmark away. Feel free to revisit in 3 years and 5 years respectively. I’ll send you something fun if the legacy of AVP hasn’t become a massive technological milestone we all look back at by then 🤷‍♂️
Number 3 as you’ve described it isn’t how it was for the iPod or iPhone. The economies of scale or BOM didn’t prevent Apple from offering the iPod or iPhone at sane, attainable-to-most pricing. Nor does it speak to the value proposition. The capabilities obtained in exchange for the price of the original iPhone far exceeds the value proposition of the AVP. Can we also remember that it’s being reported that Apple expects a YoY decline in AVP sales. Is that how it went for iPod or iPhone? That’s the exact opposite of the desired trajectory.
 
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