Epic Games to Bring Fortnite to iPad in EU After iPadOS 'Gatekeeper' Decision

[Jumpthesnark]

I am not talking about copywrited material. Apple restrict himself to show game score outside of USA using their sport app? i have never herd that score suddenly become copyrighted material, where I can simple got to web and check it. I am talking about some very specific apps. as for example with Jura coffee mashing if I have android I can go to their site and simple download apk file and that it..

Want a sports score from ESPN? ESPN has copyrighted and licensed the information on their site. Want a score from The Athletic? Yes it's the same score you can "go to the web and check" but The Athletic has copyrighted the information on their site. Which is why you have to pay a subscription fee for accessing information on that site or their app.

So yes, you are talking about copyrighted material. Go to the front page of MR and scroll to the bottom. You will see this:

This site, like the apps you are talking about, contains copyrighted material. Even though you can often find the exact same data elsewhere, such as the price of an iPad or a sports score. You think you're looking for a score, but in the eyes of the law you are accessing copyrighted, licensed material by using a specific app.

 

[Mr. Jenkins]

Nah... private companies also have their investors and they often have a big influence on (financial) decisions.

Sure, but the stakes are different. As a private company, they can decide to take risks that would not be tolerated in a publicly-traded company.

As a private company, Epic can decide that a public battle with Apple is worth the short term pain to win the war in the end. As a public company, that may not be acceptable. Hypothetically, making an Epic App Store may have seemed like a long shot if Epic was publicly-traded. Maybe the effort would have been too expensive for its investors to challenge the dominant app store and that the dominant App Store is where Epic's games should be, and especially so if the a significant portion of it's revenue comes those with Apple devices.

I'm assuming. I'm not all that familiar with Epic outside of this back-and-forth with Apple. The volatility of its stock price is something that has to be considered if Fortnite being removed from the App Store is a possible outcome (assuming Fortnite is a big money maker for Epic), and the damage control in the media that would have to take place.

 

[subjonas]

Like it or not, it’s a win for consumers

Well it's a win for consumers who like it, and a loss for consumers who do not.

 

[svish]

Good for consumers. Dispute between Epic and Apple seems to never end.

 

[killhippie]

Yeah, the Epic Games Store known for installing Chinese spyware and using Fortnite money to buy game exclusives on Windows... Tim Sweeney isn't the saint he thinks he is.

I will never install the Epic Games Store on any device.

Please do some research before posting things likes like "Epic Games Store known for installing Chinese spyware" Just google all about it, its been debunked. I have no liking for Epic Games or its CEO but neither do I like sensationalist accusations either. Either way I would certainly like an iPad with Firefox and uBlock Origin on it, but as the UK left the EU bloc that is not happening sadly.

If all that keeps an iPad or iPhone safe is a walled garden the tech is no different to other hardware, it just shows that any device can get malware and that iOS is nothing special in stopping it, and neither is the hardware that people spend ridiculous amounts of money on, like this year its 'lets put AI on the iPhone and that will bring in more money' at over £1000 for a phone that looks the same for years now so much so that its a hard sell for me these days, I used to look forward to new iPhones but that excitement has long gone and really apart from USB C not a huge amount has changed in reality, just a drip feed of minor changes each year but nothing truly ground breaking. Get a mac and enjoy the free world if you have not got one already, its great having choice.

 

[SoldOnApple]

They do this to avoid the 30% fee, but I wonder if not being in the App Store will cost them at least 30% of potential customers, meaning they are still losing money in the long run. A Fortnite competitor that is willing to eat the 30% fee in the App Store may have an advantage. Though Apple loses the 30% fee too, so it's possible there are no winners. I wish Jobs was still alive, I bet he would have handled things a little differently. Or maybe he would have fumbled it worse, who knows.

 

[thiscatisfat]

Do people even still care about this game? My teenage brother who was obsessed says nobody plays Fortnite anymore.

 

[GrayFlannel]

Apple haven’t been hiding money in Ireland. What B.S. They have been using their tax laws to their benefit. Thats not hiding, that’s smart. The difference here, is Epic are having the rules changed and a big sook, whereas Apple have properly being using the rules/laws that are already in place. Another example of fake rage or not knowing the difference between being smart and being a baby.

They both are using laws to their benefit but only Epic is despicable.

 

[wanha]

I'm not a Fortnite person but it's nice to see more consumer choice come to a platform that has previously had none. All we need to do now is knock down that absurd Core Technology Fee -- or make it the same as the one Apple charges for macOS (which is $0) -- and we'll really have something great going.

In other words, all we need to do now is figure out a law that prevents platform owners from monetizing their platform (that they spent years and billions of dollars creating, maintaining, developing, and marketing) in any way.

Sounds good to me.

Btw, I think Spotify is also a gatekeeper of digital music. Can't wait for artists to distribute their songs for free on Spotify, because who cares about the platform owner or their costs.

(Disclaimer: I am not blindly pro Apple and I am well aware of their greed, much of which is frustrating and disappointing. I also believe consumer protections are good for consumers. But these protections need to be intelligent and have sound reasoning behind them unlike the EU's selective ham-fisted approach with the DMA.)

 

[SanderEvers]

So an app belonging a category which Apple had actually banned wholesale from their own store for years up until a month ago? That's rich. Thank you for the absolutely fantastic example of why Apple should not be the only source for apps.

Apple: bans emulators

You: silence

Developer: releases emulator on third-party app store

You:

Apple recently has unbanned Emulators. And this emulator is on the Apple App Store, outside of the EU. Luckily there are other emulators on the App Store WITHIN the EU. But that doesn't solve the issue.

My issue is purely with developers forcing users to use their own / other App Stores to download Apps within the EU. That this first app is one of questionable legality doesn't matter at all.

This issue is only possible because of the DMA. And I've stated many times before, that is where the DMA becomes a problem. Because the DMA does NOTHING to protect the user's privacy or security. The DMA is ONLY for third party developers to take advantage of work the gatekeepers have created.

How I would fix this:

1. Require any third party store to audited by the EU based on the GDPR regulation before release.
2. Require any third party store on a DMA platform to also follow the DMA / DSA rules.
3. Require any (third party) store to release the source code of the store itself.
4. Require DMA gatekeepers to allow installation from unknown sources. (currently it's installation from multiple known sources), truly allowing sideloading.
5. Require the gatekeeper (or third party store) to do a platform, store or app GDPR assessment before release.
6. Require an option to the user to block installation from third party or unknown sources.

Only then the user will have truly a choice and security and privacy will actually be protected.

side note: 6 should be very simple; during a device wide restore it should give the user the option to allow installation from either:
1. only manufacturer sources (closed ecosystem)
2. manufacturer sources and known good sources. (this will enforce the rules stated in 5 of my list above)
3. all sources the user want to use. (but with a warning that this might impact usage)

 

[Shadowcatz]

I sometimes see this argument, but honestly I think it's quite disingenuous to say people buy these devices "knowing" they are handicapped with restrictions. iOS devices are very much sold as general computing devices which the reasonable consumer expects they can run whatever software they want, which has been the de facto rule for years on basically every other general computing platform, Apple's included.

There is no warning that you will be restricted. Such limitations are an unwelcome, hidden surprise. Yes, you can find this information if you do some deep dive research into the EULA, which you will get once you arrive at home with your device - it's not presented in store, and not found in the marketing and advertising material. In fact Apple regularly tout powerful capabilities and thousands of apps...

Never has their advertising material said anything like "Caveat: no emulators, bitcoin miners, streaming games, P2P, etc allowed!" That is always secretively hidden from buyers.

A free market wild-west american might claim that this is the customers responsibility to research and understand, but reasonable consumers would expect that if you're going to sell something with a handicapped feature, you should be told up front - and prominently. And any country with reasonable consumer protections would require just that.

Or... they catch up to the issue later on and require to open up later down the track. Hrrrm, guess what's happening.

This is not true. In fact Apple won a case here in the US because they DO NOT say they are open like Android. I would add that there is burden on the consumer to know what they are buying also. You, yes you might have to take some responsibility for yourself, to understand what Apple does and does not allow. It wouldn't be hard to do at all. It is fully reasonable that a consumer should be able to do that. I mean Apple doesn't say I shouldn't stick the phone places phones shouldn't go either. Do YOU need them to tell you that? Consumers ABSOLUTELY have to do some research and have some understanding of what they are buying. Your comment sounds like you just need someone to hold your hand thru the entire process and if you make a bad decision, you then, want the government to bail you out.


As a side note is Epic et. al. of the alternative app stores going to have to offer the Apple app store as a download to comply with the rules set forth? it certainly seems like they should have to do that.

 

[10anta]

I’d need a compelling reason to use an alternative App Store. Fortnite isn’t it.

 

[steve09090]

They both are using laws to their benefit but only Epic is despicable.

You said it, not me. I quoted someone who said they were hiding the money, which was clearly b.s.

Nah... private companies also have their investors and they often have a big influence on (financial) decisions.

Rubbish. I said they were private and did not have shareholders. Read what I said if you’re going to disagree. I did not say they weren’t accountable to the company. But unlike shareholders, they are not required to increase dividends, when they can put money back into the business to increase its value. Space X is a great example of building value and the company.

Epic were likened to Apple having shareholders which is 100% incorrect. It doesn’t mean no one has a private financial interest in Epic. 🤦🏻

 

[steve09090]

You, yes you might have to take some responsibility for yourself, to understand what Apple does and does not allow. It wouldn't be hard to do at all. It is fully reasonable that a consumer should be able to do that.

People don’t want to know. They want to hate on Apple.

 

[Taustin Powers]

Do children even still play Fortnite?

 

[steve09090]

Do children even still play Fortnite?

Only those on Macrumors! 😂

 

[bn-7bc]

So do you also despise Cook and Apple for hiding money in Ireland and depriving the EU of taxes for 10 years to the tune of about 13b pounds? Or when Apple uses rules to their advantage is a-ok but when Epic uses them it’s just despicable?

You know whom I despise in this situation: The Irish politicians that set up regulations in such a way that Ireland in effect became a tax haven within the EU, You can't really blame a corp or setting up shop where they get the best deal, their shareholders would have the board out of the door in a second if they did not

 

[th0masp]

Well it's a win for consumers who like it, and a loss for consumers who do not.

Why would it be a loss for those who don't plan on installing from 3rd party stores though? What difference would it make for them (other than perhaps hurt pride while stanning for their favourite brand ).

 

[bn-7bc]

In this discussion nobody mention the other problem with apple. Restrict app by a country.
example:
I am sitting in Central America and want to install app for my Jura coffee mashing. But since its EU brand it is not available here. Another example I want to see nhl score using apple sport app, again it is not available under Latino App Store. And he list go on. I understand that apple must follow the country rules and regulation, but none of Latino country prohibits sport app or app for some electronic that not available here. It is pure apple genuine to decide not to allow some app

It is up to the developer to decide in witch region the app is available, not apple, your point?

 

[bn-7bc]

They do this to avoid the 30% fee, but I wonder if not being in the App Store will cost them at least 30% of potential customers, meaning they are still losing money in the long run. A Fortnite competitor that is willing to eat the 30% fee in the App Store may have an advantage. Though Apple loses the 30% fee too, so it's possible there are no winners. I wish Jobs was still alive, I bet he would have handled things a little differently. Or maybe he would have fumbled it worse, who knows.

For apps that ar already famous and popular (Fortnite, MS Office etc) Not so much people who know about them and want them will go where they are. For this weeks fad app, or an unknown dev, they will be absolutely hosed if they are not on apples app store since no one wants to jump trough hoops yo gat a random unknown app. This might be somewhat mitigated onec apps can be directly downloaded from the web

 

[NagasakiGG]

Why are so many US/non-EU citizens against the DMA?
Any competition is better than none. And the fact, that the government has to "help" companies in their path is rather a moral destitution and shows that at the end they don't care about customers and are simply out to make a profit no matter what.
Or are there still people out claiming Apple is doing that for their users “sAfEtY”?
I know that many people living in "in the land of the free" can’t imagine how it is when company gets regulated. I mean, even the NHS is commercialized.
But anyway, instead of ranting about it out of envy, just try to get similar laws passed in your local parliaments and you will be happier for sure.

 

[Shadowcatz]

Why are so many US/non-EU citizens against the DMA?
Any competition is better than none. And the fact, that the government has to "help" companies in their path is rather a moral destitution and shows that at the end they don't care about customers and are simply out to make a profit no matter what.
Or are there still people out claiming Apple is doing that for their users “sAfEtY”?
I know that many people living in "in the land of the free" can’t imagine how it is when company gets regulated. I mean, even the NHS is commercialized.
But anyway, instead of ranting about it out of envy, just try to get similar laws passed in your local parliaments and you will be happier for sure.

I don't think any of the as you call them "rants" are about wanting the same laws passed. I think it is pointing out that the people blindly saying the EU is right are misunderstanding the EU's reasoning. It is easy to say that everything is for the consumer, but how much money does the EU make off the fines? How much money is "greasing the wheels of politics" from Apple's or whomever competitors? I have read, if it is true or not I am not sure, that the EU politicians are at least as influenced by corp money as their American counterparts.

 

[Plutonius]

Hope nobody downloads it - out of spite

People's preferences differ but I wouldn't even bother downloading this even if Apple approved it in the US and there were no issues with Epic.

 

[steve09090]

I don't think any of the as you call them "rants" are about wanting the same laws passed. I think it is pointing out that the people blindly saying the EU is right are misunderstanding the EU's reasoning. It is easy to say that everything is for the consumer, but how much money does the EU make off the fines? How much money is "greasing the wheels of politics" from Apple's or whomever competitors? I have read, if it is true or not I am not sure, that the EU politicians are at least as influenced by corp money as their American counterparts.

This is definitely just as much greasing the pockets for pollies & lobbyists, as it is for helping the consumers.

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

Except it's not giving users any choice. It's forcing users to use third party app stores that are less secure. To install apps they want. For example there is already one app that is available elsewhere in the normal App Store and in the EU in a third party one.

False. It gives users the ability to install apps that were never going to be available on Apple's App Store.

Over the years MacRumors has covered a ton of people who went through the effort of making apps for iOS, only for Apple to invent brand new rules that benefit absolutely nobody and either delay a launch by months or just outright cancel it. No company wants to sink months of developer time into an app that Apple may arbitrarily block. Now, we might start seeing more software come to iOS.


But maybe not. The EU is a small market - I don't think the "AltStore" will get much traction. The Epic Store might. Or it might not. I think someone like Amazon who already has broad consumer trust (whether deserved or not) could maybe launch a successful third party app store.