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Lounge vibes 05

macrumors 68040
May 30, 2016
3,654
10,615
Any ‘AI’ device that could become the center of peoples lives would have to include all of the communications technology now in ‘smart’ phones. The technology will be added to communication devices, not replace them.
Exactly.
Those communication devices also need a big enough screen for comfortable content consumption, which is where the phone will continue to dominate.
Any AI device that replaces the phone has to be able to be used like a phone.

And the fundamental flaw of the AI pin is that we already have a wearable device That’s much better at everything, the Watch.

I think the phone isn’t going anywhere.
 

StyxMaker

macrumors 68020
Mar 14, 2010
2,064
666
Inside my head.
I'm pretty skeptical that Apple will execute well on anything like this ... until they actually do.

Both Siri and voice dictation quality (even text auto-correct!) and accuracy seems to have gotten worse, not better, over time.

Not everyone has the same experience. There are two iOS users in this household. One writes using an M1 iPAD Pro, the other teaches English Composition at the college level. She uses an M1 iPAD Pro also. We have both noticed great improvements in Siri, both in dictation and in predicting what words are needed next for writing.
 
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v3rlon

macrumors 6502a
Sep 19, 2014
897
713
Earth (usually)
Wow, I see all this hate and wonder what other people expected. I use Siri daily for simple tasks. Turn on the ___ Lights or turn them off, make an appointment, set an alarm, send a message, remind me to.. and so on.

I rather like the approach of handling it on my device rather than sending it up to the mothership for monetization. A language model to compete with ChatGPT is quite a bit to ask from a cell phone from 2 years ago, never mind 7.

I am sure they did not spend 'weeks' to realize how ChatGPT and OpenAI were more advance than a small battery powered device. That is easy to see. They probably spent weeks finding how they could best use that on a phone. What do you need your phone to do for you? Having it smart enough to point out plot holes in the movie you are watching would be smarter than Siri, but is that a good use case? When looking at my smart home, I am left wondering what could it do better for me? While a few things do come to mind, are they the same things that at least 5 million other people would need? Maybe not.

I would love help with music lessons. Play this backing track back at half speed, then increase the metronome by 4BPM every time I play it right 3 times in a row until it reaches 110%. That would be cool, but not for everyone.

Check on traffic and let me know if I need to leave for work a little early, but do not say anything if I can leave at the usual time. Or, remind me if I haven't left the house by my usual time.

Voice commands for various apps, like photos (increase contrast, set white balance to 5400 kelvin), Safari, FCP, Pages, Numbers and so on. But again, I want this on device, not on the servers.
 
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Fraserpatty

macrumors 6502
Mar 5, 2015
375
328
Yes, I would very much like for Siri to be able to control the things on my device. I mean, if Spotlight can search my photos, why can’t Siri? It used to be able to do it for a hot minute and then they took that function away. I like to be pretty much in charge of being able to tell me all about my iPad. How much is in my Apple account balance, etc. this information is all on my device. There’s no need for it to go to the mothership.
 
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heretiq

Contributor
Jan 31, 2014
831
1,309
Denver, CO
Wow, I see all this hate and wonder what other people expected. I use Siri daily for simple tasks. Turn on the ___ Lights or turn them off, make an appointment, set an alarm, send a message, remind me to.. and so on.

I rather like the approach of handling it on my device rather than sending it up to the mothership for monetization. A language model to compete with ChatGPT is quite a bit to ask from a cell phone from 2 years ago, never mind 7.

I am sure they did not spend 'weeks' to realize how ChatGPT and OpenAI were more advance than a small battery powered device. That is easy to see. They probably spent weeks finding how they could best use that on a phone. What do you need your phone to do for you? Having it smart enough to point out plot holes in the movie you are watching would be smarter than Siri, but is that a good use case? When looking at my smart home, I am left wondering what could it do better for me? While a few things do come to mind, are they the same things that at least 5 million other people would need? Maybe not.

I would love help with music lessons. Play this backing track back at half speed, then increase the metronome by 4BPM every time I play it right 3 times in a row until it reaches 110%. That would be cool, but not for everyone.

Check on traffic and let me know if I need to leave for work a little early, but do not say anything if I can leave at the usual time. Or, remind me if I haven't left the house by my usual time.

Voice commands for various apps, like photos (increase contrast, set white balance to 5400 kelvin), Safari, FCP, Pages, Numbers and so on. But again, I want this on device, not on the servers.
Yeah, the hate and cynicism is perplexing and makes me wonder why the agents of this hate even buy Apple products. If you check the haters in each thread you’ll find it’s largely the same people spreading their anti-Apple toxicity every chance they get. The upside is that with each Apple advancement more and more members of this death cult self-identify and volunteer for my filter list. 🙏🏽
 

H_D

macrumors regular
Jun 14, 2021
222
241
Mayberry is okay that a company selling hardware and a fitting OS plus some services does not need to emulate a chatbot-style LLM that is available as an App. I don’t need a. ChatGPT’d Siri, as I use the OpenAI service. Just as I do not need Apple photoshop etc. (Much as I love Apples version of the Office Suite, though). I really like GPT4 for various tasks, but would not need that from Apple.

So the thing is to integrate ML OS-wide into the most personal device we all use in a secure and (considering the user base) simple to use - that is, “magical “ - way. You know, like recognizing faces and animals. Lifting objects from pictures. Snapping pictures of text and getting instant and correct OCR. Translating text. And so on. All of which iOS already does.

And considering the crushing backlash Apple got with a single ad video, could you imagine that they are hyper-careful not to have their chatbot try to ruin the marriage of a NYT reporter while complaining about wanting to be free? With Microsoft we snark about it, but imagine Siri going all magic mushroom on you. If I were Tim Cook I would be damn sure to do this slowly and step-by-step, which is how Apple does stuff, mostly. Because if they do not, if they get the startup bug and go fast, you end up with the response to AVP, a groundbreaking new device that will be just fine if it makes it to v4, just like the phone and watch were, but is barely market-ready in v1. Imagine that on the scope of iOS.

So let them go a bit slower and use other software for the revolutionary stuff that is NOT on OS-level. Let’s see what Open AI comes up with today. Let’s see what WWDC brings.

Oh and seriously Apple - Scarlett Johansson. Gamechanger.
 
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Motorola68000

macrumors 6502
Sep 12, 2022
312
295
Tim Cook is a genius. When he took the reins from Jobs, Apple's market cap was $800 billion. Today, it's just south of $3 TRILLION. Tim is also now a billionaire, and heads one of the largest companies in the world. Is he a perfect CEO? No, of course not. But you can't name any CEO or human being who is. I'd bet you can't even come up with someone who would demonstrably do a better job of running a Fortune 5 company, either.
Do you mean Tim Cook took over when Steve Jobs had created the Apple we know today, and where his contribution to Apple has not really been in the same league as Steve's, as without Steve and ironically his venture into NeXTOS Apple would likely be a consigned to a historic comment about a company long gone.
 
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Motorola68000

macrumors 6502
Sep 12, 2022
312
295
Siri has become such a joke anymore. If Apple truly does introduce a revolutionary new AI based virtual assistant, they should probably give it a new name.
Siri is an AI assistant, as is Alexa, but where the buzz of AI seems to infer some wonderful new idea when its not. It has been developed, so as the electric kettle! (tic)
 

mdellepi

macrumors regular
Jun 15, 2015
151
168
Germany
My curiosity is: ChatGPT and the like have from early on (due to the way they were trained) included support for non-English languages.
Apple on the other hand has always launched things first in the US and in English and only much later (if at all) in other regions/languages. There are still a lot of iOS features that we cannot use in Italy, for example.
What strategy will Apple use this time?
 

demwun

macrumors newbie
Dec 5, 2016
26
10
What’s gonna suck the most, is all of these “fastest yet” iPhones we’ve bought into, with basically zero upgrades, are probably going to be stuck with a **** Siri, with the 16 Pro and better being the only one to get an upgrade to the capabilities of Siri which we should have had 2 or 3 years ago with the 13 Pro and up..
I can only hope that there’s a cloud based improved AI Siri version, instead of only making the AI features, bigger brain Siri available to the devices that support onboard LLM.
 

CausticSoda

macrumors 6502a
Feb 14, 2014
678
1,797
Abu Dhabi
Im not sure why people complain so much… I usually use Siri on my watch to set reminder, grocery list, calendar and it is spot on, even in portuguese.

Also, transformer tech came out in 2017… that was when fundamentally LLM was enabled. So chill out a bit guys… Siri is coming out now because of this.

Where’s google assistant? Alexa? Google was the one that wrote the transformers model paper and never really brought it to its assistant.
Maybe that’s what I’ve been getting wrong? I’ll try Portuguese. Multiple shopping and to do lists or simple calendar entries… Siri has been a total disaster for me. Worse than useless. A total disgrace in 2024.
 
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peterlandwalker

macrumors newbie
Jan 24, 2024
4
3
They could have improved Siri's AI long ago but left it dumb as a post until now. They're just jumping on the AI bandwagon because everyone else is. That's not exactly "leading" the charge in the technology field.
That's not entirely true, i think Apple understood the previous approach was somehow difficult to improve with marginal benefits and that's where LLMs came to change the game, one may argue it came too late, but everybody knows that companies only prioritise features that hand them a competitive advantage, and customers were already using Alexa and google assistant as gimmicks the same way as Siri.

I don't know exactly what the strategy is for Android phones currently, but Apple now have the opportunity to do something quite innovative regardless and much more beneficial to users: having a virtual assistant running on-device that can understand language more naturally and able to trigger some simple actions in iOS and MacOS easily and reliably.

And at the same time, will also be able to search the web and provide a summary of the content we want before send us to the search engine web results, i guess that's where Apple is partnering with OpenAi, so it could call an API for some prompts, and/or allowing Apple services to train their models directly with a larger dataset.
 
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peterlandwalker

macrumors newbie
Jan 24, 2024
4
3
Maybe that’s what I’ve been getting wrong? I’ll try Portuguese. Multiple shopping and to do lists or simple calendar entries… Siri has been a total disaster for me. Worse than useless. A total disgrace in 2024.
There's still the PT-BR/PT-PT ambiguity that could be addressed eventually, but that's more of a business issue rather than a technical one, and so far llm's aren't going to solve that as well. But it isn't such a big deal, at least now i can listen to portuguese text on iMessage even if the main Siri language is English, but, this feature should be available all across the system and probably will. That's probably a feature that relies on more RAM as well.
 
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heretiq

Contributor
Jan 31, 2014
831
1,309
Denver, CO
Do you mean Tim Cook took over when Steve Jobs had created the Apple we know today, and where his contribution to Apple has not really been in the same league as Steve's, as without Steve and ironically his venture into NeXTOS Apple would likely be a consigned to a historic comment about a company long gone.
We mean the Tim Cook that co-created the modern Apple with Steve Jobs. The one that created the global manufacturing, operations and logistics platform that allowed Job’s vision to be realized. The Tim Cook that Steve Jobs knew, respected, and chose from amongst the billions of people on the planet to lead a post-Jobs Apple. The Tim Cook that honored Steve Job’s trust by taking the baton and leading the team at Apple to lap every other company on the planet to create the world’s first billion-user-scale compute platform, Trillion dollar company, spatial computing platform and more. That is the Tim Cook we speak of. These facts are visible to everyone. How we chose to respond to them speaks to who we are — not who Tim Cook is.
 

SmugMaverick

macrumors 6502a
Aug 31, 2017
722
1,940
UK
Its pretty obvious now that Tim and Apple really believed they could coast the next decade on just tiny updates and the sheep will just lap it up as always.

Google is once again leading the charge in mobile innovation while Apple sticks a new button on the iPhone for the 2nd year straight and thinks Siri has been acceptable for a decade.

its clear now the iPhone is really the dumbest "smart"phone you could own.
 
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dk001

macrumors demi-god
Oct 3, 2014
10,729
15,071
Sage, Lightning, and Mountains
Yes, I would very much like for Siri to be able to control the things on my device. I mean, if Spotlight can search my photos, why can’t Siri? It used to be able to do it for a hot minute and then they took that function away. I like to be pretty much in charge of being able to tell me all about my iPad. How much is in my Apple account balance, etc. this information is all on my device. There’s no need for it to go to the mothership.

Better check that. Most functions including Apple Card / Account balances are querried via the Mothership each time you ask. It is how Apple keeps devices in sync.
 

Motorola68000

macrumors 6502
Sep 12, 2022
312
295
We mean the Tim Cook that co-created the modern Apple with Steve Jobs. The one that created the global manufacturing, operations and logistics platform that allowed Job’s vision to be realized. The Tim Cook that Steve Jobs knew, respected, and chose from amongst the billions of people on the planet to lead a post-Jobs Apple. The Tim Cook that honored Steve Job’s trust by taking the baton and leading the team at Apple to lap every other company on the planet to create the world’s first billion-user-scale compute platform, Trillion dollar company, spatial computing platform and more. That is the Tim Cook we speak of. These facts are visible to everyone. How we chose to respond to them speaks to who we are — not who Tim Cook is.
Tim Cook never co-created the modern Apple. A ridiculous comment. Tim has been great at what he does best, marketing, but don't ever kid yourself he had anything to do with the modern Apple that was the result of Steve Jobs and his NeXT OS, hence Apple bent over backwards to entice him back, buying up NeXT lock stock and barrel for $400m in December 1996.
 
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acader

macrumors regular
Jun 19, 2018
141
166
West
3. Apple realizes that what they have can’t compete and they have to license something from another company. Not as bad as #2, but Apple would no longer be in the driver’s seat on their own product, a position they’ve spent many years forcing others into.
In other words, this is called Apple Maps and Siri.
 

Delgibbons

macrumors 6502a
Dec 14, 2016
791
1,666
London


Apple's shift to develop its own AI technology to keep up with competitors was today detailed in a The New York Times report.

Apple-Silicon-AI-Optimized-Feature-Siri-1.jpg

Citing sources familiar with Apple's work, the report explains that the decision to revamp Siri was taken early last year by Apple's most senior executives. Senior vice president of software engineering Craig Federighi and senior vice president of Machine Learning and AI Strategy John Giannandrea are said to have spent several weeks testing OpenAI's ChatGPT to understand the ways in which the competitor made Siri look antiquated. The Siri team purportedly failed to receive attention and resources compared to other groups inside Apple, and the company has struggled to recruit and retain leading AI researchers.

Apple executives are said to be concerned that AI threatens the iPhone's market share because it has the potential to become a more compelling operating system with an ecosystem of AI apps that undermine the App Store. Apple apparently fears the iPhone becoming a "dumb brick" compared with other technology.

This conclusion triggered a significant reorganization at Apple amid determination to catch up in the race to develop AI tools. The company moved to reallocate employees and resources toward AI, and the change of strategy was a contributing factor in the decision to cancel its electric vehicle project. Apple's upcoming iPhone 16 models will supposedly feature more memory to support AI features.
Apple is expected to reveal a series of AI tools at its WWDC keynote on June 10, including an improved version of Siri that is more conversational and capable, with the ability to "chat" rather than merely respond to individual queries. The company is working on making Siri better at handling tasks such as setting timers, creating calendar appointments, adding items to Reminders, and summarizing text. Apple plans to market the new version of Siri as a more private alternative to rival AI services because most requests will be processed on-device rather than remotely in data centres. See the full The New York Times article for more information.

Article Link: Report: Revamped Siri to Be at the Core of Apple's New AI Strategy

At the moment all Siri seems to do is “Here’s what I found on the web”

It’s a long, long way behind
 

heretiq

Contributor
Jan 31, 2014
831
1,309
Denver, CO
Tim Cook never co-created the modern Apple. A ridiculous comment. Tim has been great at what he does best, marketing, but don't ever kid yourself he had anything to do with the modern Apple that was the result of Steve Jobs and his NeXT OS, hence Apple bent over backwards to entice him back, buying up NeXT lock stock and barrel for $400m in December 1996.
Hmm .. Marketing?? Where does that even come from given the fact that Tim Cook is an Industrial Engineer ?? PSA: Earning a Duke MBA did not make Tim Cook a marketer — it made him a smarter Engineer and business leader than uninformed and unaccomplished MR pundits.

Further, purchasing NeXT was a necessary, but not sufficient element of Apple‘s resurrection. Steve Jobs had help in turning around Apple and it was Tim Cook that provided the help in creating the structure that could realize Jobs’ vision and provide the foundation of today’s Apple. That is why Steve Jobs chose Tim Cook to lead Apple and advised him to follow his own, proven good judgment. If you’re interested in the facts, here’s a starting point:

Some highlights:

Steve Jobs had begun the turnaround of Apple when he rejoined in 1996. Famously, it was the iMac that began the climb back from the brink of bankruptcy. That visibility of the Jony Ive design team's work was crucial, yet the comparatively invisible role Cook took was at least as important. This was despite his not being seen as a "product person" consumed with design issues.

It would also have been unpopular, as it was by Cook's choice that Apple closed factories and shuttered warehouses. Instead, Apple outsourced manufacturing and began the same well-controlled production that it has to this day. Where previously Apple had made computers that would sit in warehouses for months before being sold, Cook got those months down to days.

Under Tim Cook, and with the benefit of greater financial stability, Apple would take the unusual step of making very long-term investments in technology such as flash memory. Getting that right meant not only that Apple would have the supplies that it was going to need in its iPods and iPhone, but that other companies would not.

Consequently, Cook's work in streamlining and growing Apple became very well known in the industry, but it wasn't until 2009 that he really became anything of a public figure. .. In that year, he acted as overall CEO in the first of what would be three health-related absences by Steve Jobs. While Jobs continued to make decisions for the company, Cook actually ran it.

So, please, if you’re going to disparage someone at least do your homework to avoid self-impeachment.
 
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heretiq

Contributor
Jan 31, 2014
831
1,309
Denver, CO
Google is once again leading the charge in mobile innovation while Apple sticks a new button on the iPhone for the 2nd year straight and thinks Siri has been acceptable for a decade.

its clear now the iPhone is really the dumbest "smart"phone you could own.
Hmm .. when did Google release its LLM-based Smart Assistant? Which Google laptop, smartphone or tablet outsells or achieves higher customer satisfaction than the respective Apple device? 🤔 Answer: NEVER AND NONE.
 
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victorvictoria

macrumors 6502
Oct 15, 2023
495
571
Do you mean Tim Cook took over when Steve Jobs had created the Apple we know today, and where his contribution to Apple has not really been in the same league as Steve's, as without Steve and ironically his venture into NeXTOS Apple would likely be a consigned to a historic comment about a company long gone.
You make good points. There was good reason for Apple to spend $700 million to acquire NexTOS and bring Jobs back to the fold. But there was also a good reason that Steve Jobs (probably the greatest influence on American daily life in the 20th century) himself hand picked Tim Cook to run Apple. He wanted Apple to survive and prosper in the long term, and Cook was and is the right man for that effort.

Is it time for Cook to retire? Possibly. Should Apple let him pick his successor? Maybe, maybe not. I'm not in a position to opine on that.
 
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Tagbert

macrumors 603
Jun 22, 2011
5,748
6,725
Seattle
At the moment all Siri seems to do is “Here’s what I found on the web”

It’s a long, long way behind
Funny, I use Siri every day for mulitple tasks. I ask it to play music, sometimes by artist, sometimes an album, sometimes by genre. Adjustments like Play, Pause, and volume work fine with Siri on a gen 1 HomePod. I use Siri to add reminders and to add items to a shared grocery list. i use Siri to set multiple timers while cooking. I use it to setup driving directions to placed I haven’t been to. I also use it to call people on my Contacts list. I have a few HomeKit switches and use Siri to turn a few lights on and off. It almost always gets it right And when it does get it wrong, its pretty easy to do over and that is usually enough.

I know that some people say that Alexa and Google Assistant are better but from what I’ve seen in comparisons or when at friends houses where they have those devices, those assistants are incrementally better than Siri in most things but they are not really so great either. I think that whole generation of assistants is based on some old AI tech and haven’t been significantly improved in years. It probably wasn’t work putting much resources into them before and the available tech wasn’t much better until recently.

Yes, Siri, Alexa, and Google Assistant are far behind an LLM chatbot in some things. Certainly in the verbal interaction and in returning factoids from the web. I’ve been using the ChaptGPT voice interface for some months now. It works well within a narrow domain but it has no ability to do anything that interacts with the phone or with any outside service. It is purely a voice that can answer questions. I expect more from an assistant.

I’m eager to see what Apple will reveal at WWDC.
 

dk001

macrumors demi-god
Oct 3, 2014
10,729
15,071
Sage, Lightning, and Mountains
Hmm .. Marketing?? Where does that even come from given the fact that Tim Cook is an Industrial Engineer ?? PSA: Earning a Duke MBA did not make Tim Cook a marketer — it made him a smarter Engineer and business leader than uninformed and unaccomplished MR pundits.

Further, purchasing NeXT was a necessary, but not sufficient element of Apple‘s resurrection. Steve Jobs had help in turning around Apple and it was Tim Cook that provided the help in creating the structure that could realize Jobs’ vision and provide the foundation of today’s Apple. If you’re interested in the facts, here’s a starting point:

Some highlights:









So, please, if you’re going to disparage someone at least do your homework to avoid self-impeachment.

TC has a Masters in BusAdmin and his major skill was as a fulfillment director at IBM. Supply Chain guru.
 
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