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cgolca

macrumors member
Original poster
Apr 25, 2011
47
50
I’m highly sensitive to PWM (pulse width modulation). Though PWM is mainly used in OLED screens it’s also used in LCD screens such as the recent MacBooks and iPads. The only iPhone I’ve been able to use without issue is the iPhone SE 2020. But ever since I installed iOS 16 I’ve been getting eye pain and headaches. Has anyone else also experienced this?
 

theapplehead

macrumors 6502a
Dec 17, 2018
785
929
North Carolina
I don't think it was added on any devices that didn't already have it (those with OLED displays). That said, I've noticed considerably worse PWM on my iPhone 13 after updating to iOS 16. I don't know if it's a placebo or not but I've never had any issues on iOS 15 but on iOS 16 it does seem worse. I'd be very curious to hear anyone else's thoughts.
 

cgolca

macrumors member
Original poster
Apr 25, 2011
47
50
I don't think it was added on any devices that didn't already have it (those with OLED displays). That said, I've noticed considerably worse PWM on my iPhone 13 after updating to iOS 16. I don't know if it's a placebo or not but I've never had any issues on iOS 15 but on iOS 16 it does seem worse. I'd be very curious to hear anyone else's thoughts.
Thank you for replying! It’s very strange. All I know is before iOS 16 I never had issues with eye strain or headaches when using my SE 2.
 

jntdroid

macrumors 6502a
Oct 12, 2011
937
1,286
Thank you for replying! It’s very strange. All I know is before iOS 16 I never had issues with eye strain or headaches when using my SE 2.

The SE 2 doesn't use an OLED screen, so I don't know if PWM is even possible on that phone? Maybe it's something else? I don't want to say that with too much certainty, but I thought PWM was only on OLED screens. Forgive me if I'm pulling that completely out of my you-know-what.
 
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jimmy_uk

macrumors 68020
Oct 19, 2015
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UK
Could be there was a change to the dithering algorithm?

Apple do like to fiddle to make colours and experience similar on each device.

Another example is the ANC was reported as top shelf when the Airpods Pro came out, a software update later and it was ruined.
 

cgolca

macrumors member
Original poster
Apr 25, 2011
47
50
The SE 2 doesn't use an OLED screen, so I don't know if PWM is even possible on that phone? Maybe it's something else? I don't want to say that with too much certainty, but I thought PWM was only on OLED screens. Forgive me if I'm pulling that completely out of my you-know-what.
No I understand I thought the same thing until about a year ago. According to notebookcheck.net a handful of MacBooks and iPads with LCD displays from the last few years use PWM. For example the iPad 9th gen and the newest M2 MacBook Pro 13-inch.
 
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cgolca

macrumors member
Original poster
Apr 25, 2011
47
50
Could be there was a change to the dithering algorithm?

Apple do like to fiddle to make colours and experience similar on each device.

Another example is the ANC was reported as top shelf when the Airpods Pro came out, a software update later and it was ruined.
Very true. When I got the original AirPods Pro on launch day the ANC was phenomenal and then was absolutely tuned down after a software update. It makes you wonder since the new AirPods Pro 2 are advertised as having 2x more ANC.
 
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asus389

macrumors 6502
Sep 11, 2019
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USA
Does it get better or worse if you change your iOS background? I sort of wonder if the issue is the newer OS versions are using more “wide color” visual assets and thus causing more temporal dithering. I’ve a similar effect this on recent MacOS versions. But honestly it’s so hard to know.

My experience has been that different iOS versions do have different effects on eye strain even on the same device. On my 6S which basically doesn’t bother me at all, iOS 13 was really good for me, 14 a bit irritating, 15 somewhere in between. Thankfully I adapted to all of them more or less ok within a few days of upgrading. The symptoms were very minor compared to OLED symptoms or even some of the newer laptops.
 
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jm31828

macrumors 65816
Sep 28, 2015
1,394
895
Bothell, Washington
I’m highly sensitive to PWM (pulse width modulation). Though PWM is mainly used in OLED screens it’s also used in LCD screens such as the recent MacBooks and iPads. The only iPhone I’ve been able to use without issue is the iPhone SE 2020. But ever since I installed iOS 16 I’ve been getting eye pain and headaches. Has anyone else also experienced this?

I thought I was going crazy!
I just bought an SE 2022, because I love the small size but wanted the LCD display to avoid PWM as I had some mild sensitivity to it on the 13 Pro I had for the last year.
Well for the two weeks I've had it so far, I don't get headaches or eye strain per se, but I get really dry eyes and a mild burning sensation in the eyes.... in some ways I would almost say it's worse than my experience on the 13 Pro with the OLED screen, though I at least am not getting headaches from this display.

It does not have PWM, that is a hardware thing- but I wonder if it's temporal dithering? I have heard of a few people mentioning having sensitivity to that on some of Apple's LCD devices, like the iPhone 11 and SE 2020/2022.

I have some days where I have almost no issues, and then others where it can get bad enough that my eyes water just a bit.

I am almost tempted to buy an iPhone 14 (non pro) as I have read that even some of the most PWM sensitive users are having no issues with it, that the PWM modulation is really light. It's not the small phone I'd want, but if I could avoid discomfort it would be great.
 
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esaelias187

macrumors regular
Jul 25, 2017
219
117
I thought I was going crazy!
I just bought an SE 2022, because I love the small size but wanted the LCD display to avoid PWM as I had some mild sensitivity to it on the 13 Pro I had for the last year.
Well for the two weeks I've had it so far, I don't get headaches or eye strain per se, but I get really dry eyes and a mild burning sensation in the eyes.... in some ways I would almost say it's worse than my experience on the 13 Pro with the OLED screen, though I at least am not getting headaches from this display.

It does not have PWM, that is a hardware thing- but I wonder if it's temporal dithering? I have heard of a few people mentioning having sensitivity to that on some of Apple's LCD devices, like the iPhone 11 and SE 2020/2022.

I have some days where I have almost no issues, and then others where it can get bad enough that my eyes water just a bit.

I am almost tempted to buy an iPhone 14 (non pro) as I have read that even some of the most PWM sensitive users are having no issues with it, that the PWM modulation is really light. It's not the small phone I'd want, but if I could avoid discomfort it would be great.
Did u get iphone 14

Even the iphone 11 is messing with me now lol
 
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jimmy_uk

macrumors 68020
Oct 19, 2015
2,378
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UK
I thought I was going crazy!
I just bought an SE 2022, because I love the small size but wanted the LCD display to avoid PWM as I had some mild sensitivity to it on the 13 Pro I had for the last year.
Well for the two weeks I've had it so far, I don't get headaches or eye strain per se, but I get really dry eyes and a mild burning sensation in the eyes.... in some ways I would almost say it's worse than my experience on the 13 Pro with the OLED screen, though I at least am not getting headaches from this display.

It does not have PWM, that is a hardware thing- but I wonder if it's temporal dithering? I have heard of a few people mentioning having sensitivity to that on some of Apple's LCD devices, like the iPhone 11 and SE 2020/2022.

I have some days where I have almost no issues, and then others where it can get bad enough that my eyes water just a bit.

I am almost tempted to buy an iPhone 14 (non pro) as I have read that even some of the most PWM sensitive users are having no issues with it, that the PWM modulation is really light. It's not the small phone I'd want, but if I could avoid discomfort it would be great.
By all means try a 14 while you can but the "really light" modulation is only being mentioned because notebookcheck recorded 60hz, but I'm not certain this is right. The 14 flickers alot, maybe slower than the Pro models. Can't say for sure how many sensitive users have kept any of the 14 series iPhones but I think it's single digits.
 

jm31828

macrumors 65816
Sep 28, 2015
1,394
895
Bothell, Washington
Did u get iphone 14

Even the iphone 11 is messing with me now lol
I went to the Apple store and ended up spending quite a bit of time looking at several different phones, especially the 14 and the 13 Mini.

All of the phones there made my eyes feel that dry/stinging sensation, so I figured that what I was feeling must have been unrelated to the SE- potentially due to the dry, cold weather that moved in right around the time I started using the SE.

Anyway, I took a chance and bought the 13 Mini since I really like that form factor and that size... and for 5 days I used it without any issues at all, no eye strain or headaches.

I am a light user, maybe a couple of quick lookups throughout the day, then an hour or so session in the evening going through a few websites, reading news, online banking, and social media- maybe 90 minutes of screen on time each day.

Yesterday I spent much more time- almost 3 hours- using the 13 Mini and my SE, comparing side by side to make my ultimate decision on whether I should return the SE since yesterday was the last day of my return window through my carrier for my SE.

I went ahead and returned the SE, but shortly after I ended up getting one of my headaches behind my left eye and back to the back of my head- one that doesn't really go away when taking pain reliever.
Now I will say I get headaches frequently and have been getting them since before using smart phones, but they've been more frequent in the last couple of years- but I haven't been able to tell for sure if they are ever triggered by OLED displays (I had a 12 mini for a year, then a 13 pro for a year).
It may have been a coincidence, but the last month when I was trying the SE phones (I made an exchange to upgrade storage a couple of weeks ago) has been better, without any "bad" headaches- so was this a coincidence? Or was it because I was on the phone for so long yesterday? And if so, was it because of the PWM on the 13 Mini, maybe I was just fine for the previous 5 days because my use was not for such an extended period of time?
I have no idea.

But I am starting to realize that I shouldn't have returned the SE... even if I can't say for sure if the PWM on the 13 Mini is a problem for me, it's probably good to not be using a phone that has PWM- and so if I use the 13 Mini for a couple more days and I have at least the same dry eye feeling that I had with the SE, I'll know 100% that it was not anything specific to the SE- and I think I will buy another SE from Apple (during the holiday period this weekend where they are offering a $50 gift card with the purchase) and return the mini.

It's so annoying how much time and effort has to be spent on this stuff, it shouldn't be that way. :(

You said your 11 is messing with you now? And it's the same 11 you were using with no issues before, correct?

I wonder if it's a temporary thing and things will equalize and you'll be OK after a while.
Back in 2018 I bought an XS at launch and it definitely was mildly irritating, it made me have this pain in my left eye. I returned it after two weeks and went to an 8 Plus- and I had that same pain in the eye for a full month, even though of course the 8 Plus has no PWM. After that month, the pain went away and I was back to normal. I suspect that type of reset will happen for you, too, going back to your 11?

Though it's weird about the SE.... not sure why that would be problematic for you or any of us. I thought it was the SE causing me the dry/stinging eyes, but as noted, it seems to happen now when staring at any phone screens- and I had an SE that I tried initially in early October that caused me zero problems- that was when our weather was still warm..... I foolishly returned it as I was still trying different models, and when I went back to another SE about two weeks later, that's when I started feeling this dry/stinging feeling- and that was exactly the time when our weather shifted in a pretty major way.... I can't figure out- if it's not just the weather and my eyes adjusting- why that first SE would have been absolutely fine and the next two I had were a problem. I suspect it was not an issue with the phones, at least in my case.

We know the SE does not have PWM, and I can't find almost anything about temporal dithering online- but that would be the only other thing I could think of that might cause a few isolated people to have problems. But, is dithering really something that is even used on the SE? And if so, does it only come into play when watching HDR video, or is it in effect any time no matter what someone is looking at?
And if it does have dithering, is that really a problem for anyone on such a small screen- or is that only a problem when looking up close at a bigger display like a computer monitor for extended periods?
So many questions. :(
 

cgolca

macrumors member
Original poster
Apr 25, 2011
47
50
Does anyone else got eye irritation, headache etc. after the update to iOS/iPadOS 16. Getting concerned about updating my devices...
Same here. I’ve been using the iPhone SE 2020 for over a year with no issues and after updating to iOS 16 I started getting eye pain, headaches, and slight dizziness when using the phone. So I downgraded back to iOS 15 and everything is back to normal. The only thing I can think of is Apple must’ve changed something with PWM or temporal dithering. It’s incredibly frustrating!
 
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YarosRed

macrumors newbie
Feb 5, 2023
19
6
I use iphone 14 pro max, when I updated ios 16.3 I got a feeling of eye pain and discomfort, when ios 16.1.1 was installed everything was fine. Tell me, who has a similar situation?
 
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johnscully

macrumors regular
Sep 11, 2010
173
66
Any more feedback how the PWM (or other eye strain cause) situation is in iOS 16.3? Since I got eye strain on with iPadOS 16 (on an 6th Gen iPad) and went back to iPadOS 15, I didn't update my iPhone to iOS 16 – though the lack of security updates for my phone keeps me concerned.
 

jm31828

macrumors 65816
Sep 28, 2015
1,394
895
Bothell, Washington
Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I have heard some ramblings elsewhere that iOS 16.1 may have been the culprit for eye discomfort for some of us on the LCD devices like the SE. All subsequent 16.x releases have been problematic for some- and that seems to align with my experience when starting this thread!

I bought my first SE 2022 when the iOS version was still 16.0- and had zero issues. I had returned it for other reasons, and tried another SE in early November, after 16.1 had come out- and that's when I had trouble. Same with LCD iPads, since they were on iPadOS16.1.

I am hearing rumors that iOS17 may resolve or lessen these issues- not sure if anyone out there was having issues with the LCD displays, and has upgraded to IOS (or iPadOS) 17 and noticed any improvement?
 
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esaelias187

macrumors regular
Jul 25, 2017
219
117
Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I have heard some ramblings elsewhere that iOS 16.1 may have been the culprit for eye discomfort for some of us on the LCD devices like the SE. All subsequent 16.x releases have been problematic for some- and that seems to align with my experience when starting this thread!

I bought my first SE 2022 when the iOS version was still 16.0- and had zero issues. I had returned it for other reasons, and tried another SE in early November, after 16.1 had come out- and that's when I had trouble. Same with LCD iPads, since they were on iPadOS16.1.

I am hearing rumors that iOS17 may resolve or lessen these issues- not sure if anyone out there was having issues with the LCD displays, and has upgraded to IOS (or iPadOS) 17 and noticed any improvement?
My iPhone 11 was on iOS 17

Then my replacement iPhone 11 came I put it on iOS 17 and eyes are killing lol
 
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