Other 15 Pro / Pro Max camera hardware changes are really disappointing

[gadgetfreaky]

Lots of great information in the thread and I was really surprised to see the same specs and also the same battery life for the 3nm chip. Maybe the reviews will show the new chip adds a bunch to the pictures?

But I also wanted to point out- have you ever looked at the photos you've taken say from an iPhone 12? Or even earlier? Is the image quality that much better? If you showed it to you mom- would she be able to tell the difference between a photo from a 14 Pro to an X.

 

[Menneisyys2]

If you showed it to you mom- would she be able to tell the difference between a photo from a 14 Pro to an X.

If she knows photograhy, then, most probably. Or, if the 14P photo was shot in very dark. Or, if it was shot in ProRaw and properly developed (meaning no oversharpening). Otherwise, the X produces pretty similar pics - assuming you also shoot 12Mpixel HEIFs on the 14P, and not ProRaw.

 

[sack_peak]

Here are the hard facts after doing some research:

• The main 1x camera on both new Pro models is exactly the same as on the 14 Pro / Pro Max. No new sensor, no new glass.
• The ultra wide 0,5x camera on both new Pro models is also exactly the same as on the 14 Pro / Pro Max. No new sensor, no new glass.
• The 3x tele camera on the 15 Pro is exactly the same as on the 14 Pro / Pro Max, which was already exactly the same as on the 13 Pro / Pro Max. Again, no new sensor, no new glass.
• The 5x tele camera on the 15 Pro Max is indeed brand new. Sadly, it replaces the 3x camera instead of being added. So on the Pro Max, you now have native optical focal lengths of 13 mm, 24 mm and 120 mm. For my personal use cases, this is actually worse than the native optical focal lengths trio of the regular Pro at 13 mm, 24 mm and 77 mm. The gap between 24 and 120 is huge and for me 77 is a more frequently usable focal length than 120.

All other photography-related improvements mentioned in the keynote are indeed software based. Will they come to the 14 Pro models as well? Probably not.

Long story short, from a hardware camera / photography point of view, the only real reason to get a 15 model is if you know you‘ll use the 120 mm tele lens from the Pro Max a lot.

Edit: If you want to call this a „hardware improvement“, there is apparently a new nanoscale coating on the wide-angle lens to reduce lens flare. Better than nothing, I guess.

I would not be surprised that almost everyone who replace their Apple devices to every next model will be unhappy.

For the vast majority of us who replace 2/3/4/5/6 years later it isn't something we'd be bothered with.

Anyone here can make a parody of your post that all previous iPhones used aluminum or still have a 2G cellular antenna.

Anyone wanting the last 1% of performance for a camera is better served buying a camera in a product class of a Fujifilm GFX 100 II then just USB 10Gbps transfer it to their iPhone 15 Pro Max to share on Facebook.

 

[batotman]

Yes, I'm totally going to hate being able to take 48 MP HEIF photos with the main camera. And that 5X optical zoom sure is gonna tick me off.

Seriously. Just don't buy it. I'm excited.

You can shoot 48 MP Heif Max already with the 14 Pro Max on iOS 17. Source - I’m on the beta. It works.

 

[Menneisyys2]

You can shoot 48 MP Heif Max already with the 14 Pro Max on iOS 17. Source - I’m on the beta. It works.

that's great! Hope this feaure won't be removed in the final to push people towards upgrading to the 15P.

 

[yurgrenn]

lest you think im promoting s****ng😬
but just to illustrate how impressive
iphone post processing and quality is

latest ultra with gcam vs 14 pro

 

[Dave245]

The 15 Pro range really needs to beat Samsungs S23 Ultra, I owned it and it's the one thing I miss from that phone. Ultimately I sold the S23 Ultra, mainly because I just prefer IOS. My overall point is that Samsung has Apple beat when it comes to the camera and especially the zoom, I'm hoping the 15 Pro and Pro Max can change that

 

[JustAnExpat]

Seems like innovation is exclusively for their competitors these days.

What innovations are the competition doing that Apple isn't?

- Samsung's "Moon Shoot Mode" (or whatever it's called) simply overlays a picture of the moon. Not innovative, and unethical since information is being added, not changed.

- Google Pixel 7 camera is high on the megapixel count. Plus, it looks like it's a digital zoom, not optical zoom.

 

[the future]

I would not be surprised that almost everyone who replace their Apple devices to every next model will be unhappy.

While it is generally true that you can't expect big leaps every year, hardware-wise, there are clearly years with much bigger steps than others. Last year for example the main sensor got a lot bigger and we got 48 MP (with the option of ProRaw). That was a pretty big year-on-year step. This year, for the non-Max Pro, there is no hardware change in the sensors and lenses at all.

What innovations are the competition doing that Apple isn't?

I don't even care for the "who's got the longest" zoom rat race (and am optimistic that the picture quality of the 120 mm camera on the 15 Pro Max will be better than e.g. the 230 mm camera on the latest Samsung flagship), but Samsung et al. did recognize that if you make your longest lens ever longer, you'll eventually have a pretty wide gap wrt focal lengths; hence they now have 4 cameras. And this is, ultimately, what Apple should have done as well. If the Pro Max had the 5x in addition to the 3x it had before, it would be the ultimate camera phone and I would be first in line for pre-orders today.

 

[sack_peak]

Yep. Very disappointing update. That's two years in a row Apple have dropped the ball.

Seems like innovation is exclusively for their competitors these days.

And let's not get started on how poor iOS is these days with a very slow drip-feed of mediocre improvements when it really needs a very major overhaul. Everyone knows it apart from Apple.

So long as they hit or exceed projections they've done their jobs.

I like the fact that Apple released their 1st AMOLED phone in 2017 when Android had it 1st in 2010.

Apple skipped the color inaccuracies and AMOLED burn-in. My 2015 Nexus 6P suffered from both.

Though the blacks made me buy a 2016 LG OLED 4K TV.

The most visible Android-only innovation lacking on the iPhone are folding phones.

Having used dumb flip phones in 90s and 00s I'd never buy em as the hinges break. I do not want to see any sort of creases on my future $1199 iPhone.

If the iPhone Fold had a screen size nearly that of an iPad mini 8.3" I wouldn't want it either as it would be nearing 300 grams.

With any Apple OS what I'd want to see is a year where in they focused on improved performance, greater efficiency and the reduction of its overall memory footprint, unlike previous versions any Apple OS which focused more on new features.

Apple did this with macOS

- 2008 Snow Leopard
- 2012 Mountain Lion

 

[drugdoubles]

The rumors are pointing to big camera upgrades next year with the 16 Pro/Pro Max. Looks like any camera “improvements” with the 15 Pro will be mainly software related. I guess we’ll have to wait for the reviews, especially those that focus primarily on the camera, before we can verify that the 15 Pro camera hardware is basically the same from the 14 Pro.

The hardware specs of pro matches with Samsung already, look like both would not upgrade camera specs for years. Samsung ultra camera hardware specs have been basically the same for 3 years.

 

[Steve121178]

Absolutely agree but I hope you agree as well that these yearly or even bi-yearly upgrades are mostly status related and an absolute waste of money.
There aren’t these substantial upgrades anymore, not on Apple device and neither on Android phones.
There is a lot or marketing buzz around it and some software related exclusives features… that’s all.

Totally agree with all of that.

Annual upgrades really need to be a thing of the past, especially with software. As soon as iOS or macOS starts to get mature and stable it's then replaced by another new major version that no one asked for or needed with its own set of problems.

 

[Mark.g4]

Here are the hard facts after doing some research:

• The main 1x camera on both new Pro models is exactly the same as on the 14 Pro / Pro Max. No new sensor, no new glass.
• The ultra wide 0,5x camera on both new Pro models is also exactly the same as on the 14 Pro / Pro Max. No new sensor, no new glass.
• The 3x tele camera on the 15 Pro is exactly the same as on the 14 Pro / Pro Max, which was already exactly the same as on the 13 Pro / Pro Max. Again, no new sensor, no new glass.
• The 5x tele camera on the 15 Pro Max is indeed brand new. Sadly, it replaces the 3x camera instead of being added. So on the Pro Max, you now have native optical focal lengths of 13 mm, 24 mm and 120 mm. For my personal use cases, this is actually worse than the native optical focal lengths trio of the regular Pro at 13 mm, 24 mm and 77 mm. The gap between 24 and 120 is huge and for me 77 is a more frequently usable focal length than 120.

All other photography-related improvements mentioned in the keynote are indeed software based. Will they come to the 14 Pro models as well? Probably not.

Long story short, from a hardware camera / photography point of view, the only real reason to get a 15 model is if you know you‘ll use the 120 mm tele lens from the Pro Max a lot.

Edit: If you want to call this a „hardware improvement“, there is apparently a new nanoscale coating on the wide-angle lens to reduce lens flare. Better than nothing, I guess.

Before saying that there have been no changes compared to 14 I would wait for at least a teardown and also a field test.

For the moment I won't comment on cameras, but I have to disagree on the 77mm:

The 77mm is the classic useless focal length that many photographers have experimented with on APS-C cameras by mounting the classic 50mm wide aperture... which generally turns into a 70-80mm depending on the size of the sensor.

It's a no-nonsense lens:
Too short for portraits, too long for classic photography.

At least 120mm are excellent for portraits and the 3-axis stabilized sensor (the first on a smartphone with this focal length) will help a lot in portraits.

 

[Steve121178]

Lol. View attachment 2262090 View attachment 2262089 View attachment 2262088

"Hey Siri, what is the weather in *place where I live*?

Still responds with the wrong place name after 10 years.

Brilliant.

Not sure why you think innovation is all about hardware. It's all about software. Always has been. Maybe one day Apple will realise this too as they struggle to hang on to the coattails of their competitors.

 

[badlydrawnboy]

Before saying that there have been no changes compared to 14 I would wait for at least a teardown and also a field test.

For the moment I won't comment on cameras, but I have to disagree on the 77mm:

The 77mm is the classic useless focal length that many photographers have experimented with on APS-C cameras by mounting the classic 50mm wide aperture... which generally turns into a 70-80mm depending on the size of the sensor.

It's a no-nonsense lens:
Too short for portraits, too long for classic photography.

At least 120mm are excellent for portraits and the 3-axis stabilized sensor (the first on a smartphone with this focal length) will help a lot in portraits.

This is subjective, of course. But I just spent some time reviewing my 14 Pro photos for the past year. My most used focal lengths are environmental shots at 1x and Portraits at 2x. The only times I used 3x was when I was outside and trying to get more length—and often 3x wasn't enough.

This has me leaning toward getting the 15 Pro Max this year. 2x for indoor Portrait mode and 5x for outdoor Portrait mode and situations where I truly need more reach.

I do prefer the size/form factor of the Pro to the Pro Max, but I've had a Max in the past and learned to live with it. I generally choose whatever iPhone has the camera features I'm most interested in. Doesn't hurt to have the extra battery life, either.

 

[Mark.g4]

This is subjective, of course. But I just spent some time reviewing my 14 Pro photos for the past year. My most used focal lengths are environmental shots at 1x and Portraits at 2x. The only times I used 3x was when I was outside and trying to get more length—and often 3x wasn't enough.

This has me leaning toward getting the 15 Pro Max this year. 2x for indoor Portrait mode and 5x for outdoor Portrait mode and situations where I truly need more reach.

I do prefer the size/form factor of the Pro to the Pro Max, but I've had a Max in the past and learned to live with it. I generally choose whatever iPhone has the camera features I'm most interested in. Doesn't hurt to have the extra battery life, either.

of course everything is subjective, but there is no question that a 24mm equivalent is not a portrait lens, because it changes the perspective.
The point is precisely this, it's not just the magnification that changes, but the perspective, which is the most important aspect.

So yes you can use it for portraits, but it's not the best choice.
120mm is great for portraits! 77mm isn't. 77 is a no-sense focal lens. 77 is a compromise choice.
IMHO

 

[the future]

120mm is great for portraits! 77mm isn't. 77 is a no-sense focal lens. 77 is a compromise choice.
IMHO

Well, 77 mm is way closer to the “classic“ portrait focal (85 mm) than 120 mm is. The former may be more suitable for „full body“ portrait shots. But yeah, if 120 suits you, be glad that you got it.

 

[Mark.g4]

Well, 77 mm is way closer to the “classic“ portrait focal (85 mm) than 120 mm is. The latter may be more suitable for „full body“ portrait shots. But yeah, if 120 suits you, be glad that you got it.

85mm is a classic portrait focal, no doubt, but as 135mm no doubt yet.

135mm (here 120mm) however is more versatile, you can use it more with the faces of older people, but above all for street photography, to take photos of products.

77mm is short for portraits and much less versatile than a 120mm.

Why hasn't Apple used this lens so far?
For thickness problems in inserting a periscope camera and then we remember that here for the first time we have a sensor stabilized on 3 axes, which will make the photos of these telephoto lenses very valid and high quality, even in low light.

Personally I am very satisfied with this choice of 120mm.

What would I have liked?
I would also have liked to have a 50mm, therefore a fourth lens.
ok the 24mm, but a 50mm would have been perfect.

Maybe they'll put 4 lenses in the next model.
For the moment I am satisfied with the apple choices.

 

[badlydrawnboy]

85mm is a classic portrait focal, no doubt, but as 135mm no doubt yet.

135mm (here 120mm) however is more versatile, you can use it more with the faces of older people, but above all for street photography, to take photos of products.

77mm is short for portraits and much less versatile than a 120mm.

Why hasn't Apple used this lens so far?
For thickness problems in inserting a periscope camera and then we remember that here for the first time we have a sensor stabilized on 3 axes, which will make the photos of these telephoto lenses very valid and high quality, even in low light.

Personally I am very satisfied with this choice of 120mm.

What would I have liked?
I would also have liked to have a 50mm, therefore a fourth lens.
ok the 24mm, but a 50mm would have been perfect.

Maybe they'll put 4 lenses in the next model.
For the moment I am satisfied with the apple choices.

I've been a serious hobbyist photographer for many years. I know that 85mm is a very popular focal length for portraits, but I never used it much. I preferred indoor/environmental portraits with 24/35mm, "as the eye sees" portraits at 50mm, and then headshots or outdoor portraits at 135mm.

Again, this is a subjective choice. Many photographers love 85mm. Pentax used to have a 77mm lens that some people loved.

I ordered a 15 Pro Max. I'm curious to see what I think.

 

[TG1]

The 3x is definitely my favorite lens for portraits of my kids. I would hate to lose it. Funny, this may actually push me to the regular 15 Pro.

 

[drugdoubles]

The 3x is definitely my favorite lens for portraits of my kids. I would hate to lose it. Funny, this may actually push me to the regular 15 Pro.

Yes 3x is much for useful. There is no way 5x from kid if you need to take care the kid too.

 

[drugdoubles]

Yep. Very disappointing update. That's two years in a row Apple have dropped the ball.

Seems like innovation is exclusively for their competitors these days.

And let's not get started on how poor iOS is these days with a very slow drip-feed of mediocre improvements when it really needs a very major overhaul. Everyone knows it apart from Apple.

Well Apple marketing BS is very innovation. You can see many people over here still believe 15 pro series get new sensors, very likely they watched the event and didn’t carefully understand the Apple marketing BS trick.

 

[JH101]

very good video on this subject.

 

[Snuupy]

Guys, the truth to have a best picture quality is as follows:

- To have big sensor (bigger is always better).
- To have high class lens
- To have a powerful chip (for continuous shooting, fast image processing)

What we have in iPhone 15 Pro/Max is an old sensor - Sony IMX-803, and I know that the excuse is to have cheaper production cost, but in the end, this is PRO model, make it like a PRO. If Xiaomi 12s Ultra (750$ phone) can have the latest sensor, why Apple cannot? They're making their own chips (they're saving cost), only the displays are shipped by Samsung (I believe, it was like this in the past).

 

[JustAnExpat]

Annual upgrades really need to be a thing of the past, especially with software. As soon as iOS or macOS starts to get mature and stable it's then replaced by another new major version that no one asked for or needed with its own set of problems.

I agree, for now, with how Apple is upgrading the software annually for MacOS. They are basically slowly removing the old Intel code, and it'll take a long time for them to remove all of it.