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16" MacBook Pro ghosting / smearing...
- Thread starter StONE_ROdGEr
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This problem is very individual, some have more sensitive eys for response and some one not. Im a very sensitive for this and i see big differents and i go from macbook when have one of the best response in history of macbooks (20ms). Face to face my old (20ms) and new 16" (50ms) i see big ghosting ond 16". My friend buy 16" and dont see ghosting but his old macbook is 2018 15" with 40ms, i see it on both of him macbooks :-/...
I hope eyes is adapt one day to new response time but, i cant accept this on a machine with this cost. Sorry i cant.
and Sorry for my EN...
I hope eyes is adapt one day to new response time but, i cant accept this on a machine with this cost. Sorry i cant.
and Sorry for my EN...
Probably a fairly useless contribution to this discussion but:
I just spent about 7 minutes in my Wimbledon branch comparing the 16inch with the one right next to it, which was a 13inch Touch Bar.
I put both of them on dark mode and scrolled the macrumors homepage. Really couldn't see any difference. I was looking pretty intensely too, the guy came over a couple of times to see if I needed help (translation: "what's this suspicious f*** up to??")
I just spent about 7 minutes in my Wimbledon branch comparing the 16inch with the one right next to it, which was a 13inch Touch Bar.
I put both of them on dark mode and scrolled the macrumors homepage. Really couldn't see any difference. I was looking pretty intensely too, the guy came over a couple of times to see if I needed help (translation: "what's this suspicious f*** up to??")
This is pretty pointless if your camera shutter isn't linked to the graphics card. Because, while you might see more 'ghosting' in the second picture, the final picture (the UFO allthe way to the right) isn't as bright. So the picture was taken in between movements of the sprite.
I've been lurking here for the past few weeks keeping an eye on this issue, as it's the one thing standing between me and pulling the trigger on a new 16". I'm starting to think it's a combination of OCD and confirmation bias making a mountain out of a molehill- perhaps a molehill that truly exists, but still, a molehill nonetheless.
Correct me if there's evidence to the contrary, but how do we know that "A#" represent different panel revisions? You guys do realize that orders for major products like this are placed with vendors and suppliers months in advance and for huge amounts of panels, right? There's no "under the hood" revisions being made every couple of days in an effort to keep ahead of the issue. That's just ridiculous. The fact that people here are reporting noticing distinct differences between different "revisions" without even knowing for certain that these *are* revisions is just weird to me.
Combine that with a lot of general confusion among laymen about what ghosting even is, etc. and I think a lot of people here have convinced themselves that they're noticing something to a more extreme degree than it actually occurs.
The reality is that *all* 60Hz panels exhibit "smeary" behavior if you try to read text while scrolling. My monitors at work, my work-issued Dell laptop, my work-issued ThinkPad, my personal Yoga 730, my Samsung 4K monitors, my iPhone X. *All 60hz panels.*
I'm not saying that there definitively isn't a notably worse ghosting effect on the new 16", but the fact that people here are going through 6+ returns and using *30fps smartphone video* to "demonstrate the effect" is definitely not helping our case here if there actually is a problem. It's making it much easier to just dismiss as us being OCD loonies.
I'll continue to keep tabs on this thread for a few weeks before making a purchase decision, but I think we could get to the heart of the issue much faster if we started separating the scientific from the anecdotal.
Not meaning to come at anyone specifically, just my 2c.
Correct me if there's evidence to the contrary, but how do we know that "A#" represent different panel revisions? You guys do realize that orders for major products like this are placed with vendors and suppliers months in advance and for huge amounts of panels, right? There's no "under the hood" revisions being made every couple of days in an effort to keep ahead of the issue. That's just ridiculous. The fact that people here are reporting noticing distinct differences between different "revisions" without even knowing for certain that these *are* revisions is just weird to me.
Combine that with a lot of general confusion among laymen about what ghosting even is, etc. and I think a lot of people here have convinced themselves that they're noticing something to a more extreme degree than it actually occurs.
The reality is that *all* 60Hz panels exhibit "smeary" behavior if you try to read text while scrolling. My monitors at work, my work-issued Dell laptop, my work-issued ThinkPad, my personal Yoga 730, my Samsung 4K monitors, my iPhone X. *All 60hz panels.*
I'm not saying that there definitively isn't a notably worse ghosting effect on the new 16", but the fact that people here are going through 6+ returns and using *30fps smartphone video* to "demonstrate the effect" is definitely not helping our case here if there actually is a problem. It's making it much easier to just dismiss as us being OCD loonies.
I'll continue to keep tabs on this thread for a few weeks before making a purchase decision, but I think we could get to the heart of the issue much faster if we started separating the scientific from the anecdotal.
Not meaning to come at anyone specifically, just my 2c.
I think the whole thread is overreaction The displays are probably a tad slower than the 2012-2015 retinas and many people are upgrading from them hence they may notice a difference but in day to day usage it’s unnoticeable unless you’re looking for it and are OCD which describes many people on this forum
My previous 2017 15” has even worse ghosting than my 16” and I didn’t notice any ghosting in that during my day to day use until I read this thread and looked for it on my 16”
Yeah, I mean, I'm not even using OCD in the way that a lot of people do. I personally have struggled with near-debilitating obsessive-compulsive disorder for most of my life, and I see a lot of myself in the posts here. I could easily see myself getting sucked in and tricking myself into thinking I'm seeing something worse than I am.
It doesn't represent any type of panel revision. Its fantasy land nonsense that has perpetuated into a thing in here because of what a few people perceive as an issue. I've gone into an Apple store where both the A4 displays and A1 displays have both been on the floors. There is absolutely no difference and both screens looked fine and weren't smearing or ghosting. Some people in here feel like this will fill a need for them to get this A4 panel to correct this internal issue they are having with this screen, and that is fine, but its not real and it has no bearing on screen quality.
I also have an A1 panel and my screen is fantastic and does not ghost or smear, but that doesn't fit into the narrative that the A1-A3 screens have ghosting and Apple secretly fixed the issue with new panels.
Why? You ignore when people post that an A1 panel doesn't have ghosting because it doesn't fit your narrative of "revised panels." What's the point of posting in there if you only update it with the data that you feel justifies your hypothesis?
Also, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about when you say "Panel rev." You have no clue what it is so you should probably stop calling it that.
Like I said, confirmation bias at work. People describing whether or not they notice the issue in that thread is only further proving that at the *very most* it's an individual perception thing.
Got my replacement unit today, so far I have been using it for only about three hours but see no ghosting at all (nothing out of the ordinary, I am used to 2014 MacBook Pro 15").
LP160WT1-SJA4
LP160WT1-SJA4
Professional Video Editor here. I see more Motion Blur in some scenes of my movies than on other Displays (ACD 30" and rMPB 15" early 2013). At first I didn't noticed any problems, but then something was "weird" in my footage. So I googled and came across this thread. Yes, this "Problem" is highly subjective and differs from person to person. My friend is a professional Photographer and he can't see anything bad. We have the EXACT same Machine, ordered the SAME day. Both on LP160WT1-SJA2. He sees nothing, I see something. So. I will return mine for now I think – and order one again in the middle of January and hopefully get the 4th Edition of the panel, but yes, I see that this maybe doesn't resolve anything. Any Ideas if the "ghosting" could be fixed by Apple with a software fix?
I was hoping someone like yourself would chip into this thread. When I was getting annoyed by it, I could only imagine how content producers would be taking it (I only do photography, but I noticed the screen regardless). I’m also finding it tiresome that people keep coming back to tell us it’s not an issue and it’s down to personal perception.... precisely! I am perceiving it, you’re not ?.
Amazon UK are all out of stock, so now is the time to try for a newer panel batch. Will update whenever I receive one.
For whatever it's worth, I'm a senior editor for network TV. I see no difference between my 2015 15" and my 2019 16" (other than native color temperature, which is easily adjusted). Again, FWIW.
Thank you. What bothers me most about it, that seemingly a lot of people (including my Photographer friend) think this is just "ridiculous". Fine then … But I cannot verify if the footage is fine on set if I look into this monitor. It seems, I am used to my early 2013 rMBP screen, compared both, there IS a difference to *my* eyes. So when it is me that recognizes a difference, then there is one. It doesn't matter if other won't see it. I mean, we are not talking about paranormal activity here, just some (seemingly) "ghosting" … wait …
Will keep you guys posted in January if something is different.[automerge]1576531913[/automerge]
Yes, because you're a "senior". You're yes going bad!
Just kidding! Thats interesting though – I only see the problem in movement from Hands, Legs and sharp objects in my footage – so everything that has a clear outline.
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Indeed. I’ve only had an iMac 5k before but as I mentioned I have access to a 2012 MBP and there’s a significant difference. I’m sorry, but I can’t take complacency with the 2016 onwards as a reason to justify and even slower screen than the previous models.
As you say, *you* noticed the difference, enough to find this thread... hopefully there is better batches, otherwise we might have to sit this one out ?
As you say, *you* noticed the difference, enough to find this thread... hopefully there is better batches, otherwise we might have to sit this one out ?
And THIS is what bothers me the most. I am in NEED of a new Mac. My 2013 rMBP is on his last breath so to say. There is no good alternative right now. Mac Mini? Nah, weak graphics and no mobility. Other MacBooks? Nah. Butterfly Keyboard and thermal problems. MacPro? Well … no.
So what's left? Right.
Waisting time while waiting for rendering to complete …
Wow... this is literally me the last few weeks haha! I too was considering the Mac mini for now but no portability. 13s have butterfly keys and a 14 is likely on the horizon etc. Going to try agin with the 16” but feel like it’s a lost fight.
Yeah the keyboard is screwed, but haven't the thermal issues been firmware-fixed?
(I don't check these sites as often as I should so forgive me if the answer is a clear 'NO.'
Make that three - I almost came close to ordering a BTO Mac Mini.
Looks like there are a bunch of folks who are getting riled up about this ghosting thing
. Folks - you either see it or you dont. If you dont, thank you stars and move on (really) - there's no reason to tell us that we are lying. One of them even called me "dishonest" - lol, it looks like some people take this way too personally! ?It is interesting to compare what happened when the 2016 was introduced and now the 2019, I bought both MBP at the launch.
For 2016 there was a lot of initial noise and then things mostly died down with some complaints remaining, like the keyboard.
2016 I can remember no one complaining about the display and now a lot people are complaining about ghosting, whitepoints, brightness ...
As far as I can see the display are essentially identical 2016 to now, so why suddenly soo many complains when nothing has changed.
I must agree with some other posters that it seems like some people just want to find faults.
I guess, like for the 2016 launch, after a while this will die out and we can focus on any real remaining issues.
For 2016 there was a lot of initial noise and then things mostly died down with some complaints remaining, like the keyboard.
2016 I can remember no one complaining about the display and now a lot people are complaining about ghosting, whitepoints, brightness ...
As far as I can see the display are essentially identical 2016 to now, so why suddenly soo many complains when nothing has changed.
I must agree with some other posters that it seems like some people just want to find faults.
I guess, like for the 2016 launch, after a while this will die out and we can focus on any real remaining issues.
Most of the complaints are coming from people who have been using models earlier than the 2016, so those screens might have had better response times. Like PWM, it's a real issue for those sensitive to it, while others may not notice.
As for lack of complaints about this in 2016, that's how I remember it too, but there were issues affecting far more people to focus on then.
I use a 240hz monitor daily and went to the apple store and tried 3 of the mbp 16” models for ghosting. I tried moving a window around the desktop at different speeds, moving around the launchpad, and scrolling through text from the web. Honestly the issue was noticeable, but I felt like it had almost no affect on my user experience. It looked more or less the same as my iphone, the 15” next to me, and the 13” mbp down at the end of the table.
The display is not "essentially identical to 2016" - its the biggest difference (size-wise, but I am sure spec-wise too) in this new redesign. The display is measurably (see the notebookcheck.com) different (and slow).
And who is to say what is a "real" issue that will remain standing vs. those that are temporary? The biggest noise (pun intended) was made wrt the popping issue so much so that it made it on news headlines and was promptly fixed (in software!) - while there were many that said that might be a hardware issue (T2 chip, etc.).
So... perhaps the display will be the achilles heel of this redesign. It's possible Apple is focusing all their attention on the upcoming miniLED and has decided the 16" LCD is what it is.
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