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joeblow7777

macrumors 604
Sep 7, 2010
7,086
8,859
Most students and grandma are using $200-500 PCs and Laptops. In fact the vast majority of them are. $1200 isn’t entry level pricing for 95% of humanity
Actually, in my experience as a high school teacher, I've observed that Macbooks are very popular among students, and I know that they often continue to use them through university. Depending on what they're studying, 8GB is enough for those who are primarily using it for research and writing papers.

As I mentioned above, I'm not trying to defend Apple here, but as someone who's worked exclusively off a an 8GB Windows (Surface) Laptop for several years, including the height if the pandemic when I was running my classes completely via synchronous remote instruction, I think that a lot of people underestimate what can be done with 8GB of RAM.

That being said, would I recommend buying a laptop with just 8GB today? Barring a few specific circumstances, I would not.
 
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Tyler O'Bannon

macrumors 6502a
Nov 23, 2019
760
1,273
And it’s going to stay that way until it’s insufficient for those who use email, safari, messages, and notes.
 

ignatius345

macrumors 604
Aug 20, 2015
7,026
11,564
Anyone who needs that can already tell you WHY they need that. And realistically, most people know that they don't need that. The use cases for a car are predictable: They are exactly the same as they were 40 years ago.

Knowing what computer you need is far harder than knowing what car you need, so computer design should reflect that. It would cost Apple pennies to put in a NVMe slot to accept more fast storage. Or a ram slot so that swapping could go to that and not an SSD that wears out. But they don't want to do that because they want shorter lifespans for their macs.

You can say that the Mac is Apple's product, and they can do what they want with it. True. But contract law, patents, copyright, and currency are the products that we taxpayers produce, so we have just as much right to manipulate them in our favor. Apple is far more dependant on us than we are on them. So if they want to selfishly manipulate, so should we.
Give it a ****ing rest, dude. I don’t give a crap how much it costs Apple to put whatever component inside. I’m sure every single part of the Mac costs Apple far less than its share of the final purchase price. What’s next, you’re gonna tell me the plastic they make the key caps out of only costs 40 cents and therefore the whole thing should be cheaper?

My concern as a consumer is to buy a machine that suits my needs at a price that I get value out of — regardless of what self-appointed experts believe everything “should” cost according to their armchair supply chain management expertise. I know exactly what computer I need: the one that does the work I put through it smoothly. It’s really not that complicated.

As for this whole weird rant about “manipulation”, honestly it sounds a little unhinged. I’m not sure what it is about Apple that makes people so hyper focused on their profits, but news flash, there’s a whole huge economy out there full of compaies doing exactly the same thing if not worse.
 
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MichaelAdam

macrumors regular
Jul 15, 2005
145
139
MacBook Air 8gig is not crazy as it’s good enough for most task users would do … Now calling a MacBook Pro at 8gig Ram is indeed crazy …
 
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saber32au

macrumors 6502
Apr 5, 2019
267
196
This to say, this stuff exists and is very much a thing on Macs as well.
Completely agree with you. Both macs and windows laptops suffer the same issues and get locked right down when corporate IT get their grubby hands on them...

No doubt (in my mind, others may disagree) that Windows out of the box is more bloated (ie lots of useless apps) than MacOS.

But spend a bit of time optimising windows and you can get it running very smoothly...
 
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Anaxarxes

macrumors 6502
Feb 27, 2008
425
617
Amsterdam, Netherlands
The 2024 MacBook Air was just announced but Apple still offer

8GB Unified Memory​

256GB SSD Storage​

This is crazy just crazy Apple you just crazy​

Apple offers this so that they can market that it starts at 1099. Simple marketing strategy.

We should focus on why a properly configured MBA (24GB RAM and 1TB SSD) is costing DOUBLE.
 
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za9ra22

macrumors 65816
Sep 25, 2003
1,441
1,902
It’s like how the EU government answers to its constituents, and not the concerns of a US based multinational corporation
It isn't actually relevant to the point, but certainly true. Governments create a regulatory environment for everyone within their boundaries, whether equitable or not.

Personally, I hope the EU's interventions cause wider disruption to Apple's closed ecosystem because the company really needs to be shaken out of complacency, but it doesn't change the point that the duty of a publicly traded corporate body is to its shareholders, not to the public. What Apple will do is merely trim policies to fit the rules and maintain their best-case revenues - which is exactly what they should do.

In any event, it won't alter the fact that the M3 MBA still has a base model with 8Gb RAM, and the EU can't really impact that - which if I'm not mistaken is what we were talking about.
 

za9ra22

macrumors 65816
Sep 25, 2003
1,441
1,902
In the exact same respect, can someone use an Apple Silicon Mac with only 8GB of RAM and never notice the degree to which 8GB of RAM is subpar under the hood?
The simple fact is that yes, many, many people use 8Gb AS Macs and never notice any subpar consequence of the RAM.

I don't question those who WOULD notice, because their use cases clearly give them reason to, but I also don't question those who don't, because there's no basis to genuinely know. In my own case, I CAN know, and other than that I get occasional audio dropouts while AirPlaying video to an Apple TV in the background while the system is busy with a number of other tasks, I see zero consequence. Even that can be duplicated on a 16Gb system too.

In the wider sense, lacking any knowledge of Apple's future plans, and observing only what common uses people put their computers to, I suspect Apple have a far better idea of what they're doing than the vast majority of people who post in macrumors threads. I don't necessarily LIKE what they do, and I don't necessarily AGREE with what they do, but there's no one better placed to understand their objectives and decisions than they are.
Cool. You can't feel it today, and therefore it's not a problem TODAY. Who is to say it won't be down the road?
Speaking just for me, I don't have the resources to replace my 8Gb M1 systems, so personally, it's a moot point. Assuming I keep on using these computers for the work I need them to do, they will keep on working exactly as they do now - which is exactly what I want and need. It hardly matters if the entire computing world outside bloats to a 128Gb minima, these machines don't need to change.

In the wider context, 'down the road' most other users will do what most other users have always done since the Commodore PETs, Apple IIs and TRS-80s... they'll replace their existing systems with the next big thing. Their existing systems are more recyclable than ever, there are trade-in options via Apple or some retailers (Best Buy in the US for example) or sell-on options via the likes of eBay, so there's better options now than every before. The market will just roll along, complete with consumers, as it has always done.
 

javisan

macrumors 6502a
Dec 4, 2006
529
726
The usual unboxing and initial impression videos are out on YouTube. Fun fact: All review units given by Apple to these select YouTubers include 16GB of RAM.

I wish Apple were proud of their base configuration choices and give all these YouTubers the same 8GB RAM/256GB SSD they intend people to buy at the base price, given a significant percentage of people will actually buy that version.
 

raythompsontn

macrumors 6502a
Feb 8, 2023
593
793
Most students and grandma are using $200-500 PCs and Laptops.
Fun fact. When I was working at the university probably 50% the students had MacBooks, 25% had Dell laptops, 10% had Lenovo, the remaining 15% had laptops I did not recognize except for a few Alienware machines. Few, if any, of those machines were less than $800.00.

I speak from experience, you speak from guessing. A marked difference.
 

za9ra22

macrumors 65816
Sep 25, 2003
1,441
1,902
The usual unboxing and initial impression videos are out on YouTube. Fun fact: All review units given by Apple to these select YouTubers include 16GB of RAM.

I wish Apple were proud of their base configuration choices and give all these YouTubers the same 8GB RAM/256GB SSD they intend people to buy at the base price, given a significant percentage of people will actually buy that version.
You would expect that because it's just common sense, and hardly a new thing. Given the favored influencers are expected to thoroughly test the things they are sent to review and comment upon, and some of them use the system to make and edit the videos they post, they're not exactly the target market for the entry-level model.
 

Lift Bar

macrumors regular
Nov 1, 2023
177
371
Apple offers this so that they can market that it starts at 1099. Simple marketing strategy.

We should focus on why a properly configured MBA (24GB RAM and 1TB SSD) is costing DOUBLE.
Because people will pay it. Why not charge triple or quadruple the cost? Seems like a missed opportunity by AAPL.
 

aria26

macrumors newbie
Sep 7, 2023
25
31
These products are still very expensive for many people, especially in third world countries. Apple is still keeping the 8gb/256 version for a reason. Macbook Air is great for watching some content, listening music, using MS Office programs etc. and 8 GB of ram is still more than enough for these daily tasks, and helps Apple to sell more devices, and reach more people with limited financial capabilities.
 
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Lift Bar

macrumors regular
Nov 1, 2023
177
371
this thread is going nowhere now.
i'm bow wowing out. woof
Let's regroup and address the concerns about pricing for incremental upgrades. There's a growing sentiment that the upgrade cost is excessive, but we must approach this with a bold, innovative mindset.

The expectation that an additional $200 should guarantee 8GB of RAM or an extra 256GB of storage reflects a sense of entitlement.

We need to challenge this perspective and redefine value in this context.
 

Lift Bar

macrumors regular
Nov 1, 2023
177
371
These products are still very expensive for many people, especially in third world countries. Apple is still keeping the 8gb/256 version for a reason. Macbook Air is great for watching some content, listening music, using MS Office programs etc. and 8 GB of ram is still more than enough for these daily tasks, and helps Apple to sell more devices, and reach more people with limited financial capabilities.
Literally all MacBooks made in the past 10-15 years can do this with no issue. Any computer with an SSD is capable of this.
 
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kp98077

macrumors 601
Oct 26, 2010
4,159
2,662
One thing that drives me nuts is at Best Buy you can only get 16gb in midnight ?
 

kp98077

macrumors 601
Oct 26, 2010
4,159
2,662
If you need more RAM, pay to upgrade or buy a MacBook Pro with 16GB of RAM. If the Pro is too heavy for you, work out. Problem solved.
Agree that’s wheee it’s tough. If need 16 or more ram that’s pro territory.
 

JoeDezibel

macrumors member
Jan 16, 2021
69
238
Next year Apple maybe going up to 12 or 16GB Ram minimum configuration.

AND THEN!!! There comes this one guy who complains why he should pay for so much Ram, he needs only 8GB 😱😂😂

(Ironic mode off)
 

erikkfi

macrumors 68000
May 19, 2017
1,726
8,087
The MacBook Pro I bought in 2009 had 4GB of RAM standard, and could only be updated to 8GB.

So, welcome to the forum, but please don't just make **** up.
Agreed, it looks like the 8GB minimum has been standard on Mac laptops since about 2012.
 

Lift Bar

macrumors regular
Nov 1, 2023
177
371
Next year Apple maybe going up to 12 or 16GB Ram minimum configuration.

AND THEN!!! There comes this one guy who complains why he should pay for so much Ram, he needs only 8GB 😱😂😂

(Ironic mode off)
The extra production cost for Apple in this scenario is very low. The pricing of the MacBook is determined by market demand, not by Apple's manufacturing expenses.
 

turbineseaplane

macrumors P6
Mar 19, 2008
15,252
32,867
The pricing of the MacBook is determined by market demand, not by Apple's manufacturing expenses.

Well actually it works backwards from “obscene margins required always”, then thinks about other things.

Last on the list is always “is this the best product for consumers that we could make at this price point?”
 
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