4k TVs are so advanced, whats the point of Apple TV 4k?

[400]

Problem with a lot of TV's is the physical tech that goes into them at manufacture limiting how far software can go. Dead end sooner rather tan later.

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

I agree that Apple should get into the TV market. But not for all the reasons you suggest. At the end of the day, I have no cord clutter with my TV. My ATV attaches to the rear of the TV with Velcro, and attaches via a short HDMI cable. I don’t even know it’s there. It’s totally integrated with the set via CEC, which is not perfect but works well on my TV. I stream my audio via an aptx LL dongle to a subwoofer. Apple could improve peripheral integration, and design in this regard. But aside from that, unless they offer the ATV integration as a dongle like the Firestick, I would hate to invest Apple premiums into a TV panel which while surely an improvement over the horrors of Android TV, will just as surely be obsolete well before the EOL of the TV.



Washing machine makers keep producing new appliances every year with slight improvements and people keep buying them. But not the same people. Just like a washing machine, a TV is a major appliance commodity. Everyone needs one. Expecting people to upgrade their 65-75 TV display every 2-3 years to get smart function improvements when a $100-200 discreet add on box will accomplish the same thing is unreasonable.

Truly incorrect in this decade with regards to TV. I'd say the majority of my friends do not own a TV! They own MacBook Pro's, iPhones and stream film and watch videos VOD from YouTube.
In my house, we have one TV and that's wired for Apple TV for WSL, RedBull Sport, Amazon and iTunes for our weekly film night.
It's never been connected to any terrestrial TV, satellite etc. Times change. I appreciate the USA loves their TVs but there's a real shift outside of the US.
If it was not for our weekly film watching, I'd very happily not have a TV in my home - it's something that is of zero interest to myself and the majority of my friends.

 

[400]

BARB still has 27 million TV households. TV sales are still going up and now they have to shift 8K sets (samsung just started to flog them). I would suggest that TV in the UK is alive and well as in a panel in a living room. Ofcom has streaming overtaking pay TV but that still needs a screen.

 

[Topfry]

Problem with a lot of TV's is the physical tech that goes into them at manufacture limiting how far software can go. Dead end sooner rather tan later.

I think a lot of the marketing over the last decade has been about dead end ideas like 3D, curved screens, etc but if you can get a solid picture and sound within the Apple ecosystem, then software could offer enough to keep it alive for several years at least. Apple have always tended to do mainstream tech pretty well, and would probably put enough in it to give it shelf life. The year old Apple TV 4K is a reasonable starting point for functionality, and who knows what else could be done with sound and video resolution tech that’s optimised for the ecosystem.
Something that would be useful for ATV in general is a programme guide.

 

[dumoore]

What do people do for TV Shows and Movies?
Maybe I'm lazy for not chasing down using Plex and CBS app and FOX app and every tv provider app. I don't have cable. Instead I use AppleTV 4k to rent my movies and watch them, buy (most) tv shows, and watch Netflix. It's awesome that everything is all in one. So for those of you that get rid of AppleTV where do you go to rent movies? Watch tv shows? Do you chase down every provider app to watch them with commercials? Use old fashioned DVD's from Redbox?

 

[400]

I think a lot of the marketing over the last decade has been about dead end ideas like 3D, curved screens, etc but if you can get a solid picture and sound within the Apple ecosystem, then software could offer enough to keep it alive for several years at least. Apple have always tended to do mainstream tech pretty well, and would probably put enough in it to give it shelf life. The year old Apple TV 4K is a reasonable starting point for functionality, and who knows what else could be done with sound and video resolution tech that’s optimised for the ecosystem.
Something that would be useful for ATV in general is a programme guide.

I was thinking the chips for OS etc.
HDMI hardware for 1.4 or 2.0a is fixed, specifications for dealing with this are laid down. New advances such as hardware 2.1 or new formats, unless they can be software upgraded, are limiting.

Edit. iPad threw a wobbly and messed this up.
I expect this panel I have to last at least 5 years and hopefully longer. I don't expect the apps to last. The hardware will run at the correct specification as it is set down now. Add an OS beyond input control and handling and there is a weak link. The hardware might well be capable of going on but adding in an OS past picture control and channel select and there in lies an issue as soon as the owners want to pull the plug.

 

[Topfry]

I was thinking the chips for OS etc.
HDMI hardware for 1.4 or 2.0a is fixed, specifications for dealing with this are laid down. New advances such as hardware 2.1 or new formats, unless they can be software upgraded, are limiting.

Edit. iPad threw a wobbly and messed this up.
I expect this panel I have to last at least 5 years and hopefully longer. I don't expect the apps to last. The hardware will run at the correct specification as it is set down now. Add an OS beyond input control and handling and there is a weak link. The hardware might well be capable of going on but adding in an OS past picture control and channel select and there in lies an issue as soon as the owners want to pull the plug.

Tell me about it - we have a Panasonic from 2011, where most of the apps you could initially use at purchase have gone the way of the mammoth; the Apple TV 4 we own keeps us going fine even after 3 years and shows no sign of letting us down, even with Bluetooth 4, hdmi 2.0 and other specs that may have been superseded. That’s because the software is capable of being upgraded on the Apple TV as the specs have a certain degree of redundancy, and the Panasonic’s are too proprietory.
The point is there is more mileage in a device such as the Apple TV because of the specs; applied to a TV set with all the potential that optimisation allows, will allow a tv device to last considerably longer than an equivalent branded tv, and they already make money, albeit with ultra narrow margins. The value however is in the services and the infrastructure. The apps change, yes, but a lot of apps you can download today would still work on an iPhone 5. If you are worried about graphics, for games, then I can see you have a point, but for me the ATV is a general Audio visual device not a PS4.

 

[priitv8]

And yet Sony and other tv companies keep producing new tvs year after year with slight improvements, but people still buy them? I dont think your point works as an argument against an apple tv set. I think an apple tv set could fit very well into the apple ecosystem, what they would charge for it would be a different issue.

I find it even funnier, that to get a dumb display from them, you need to look at their pro and signage department, where you will pay double the consumer's smart-screen amount. Go figure.

PS Sony STR-DN1080 Atmos-receiver got just today firmware updat and now supports eARC!

 

[400]

Tell me about it - we have a Panasonic from 2011, where most of the apps you could initially use at purchase have gone the way of the mammoth; the Apple TV 4 we own keeps us going fine even after 3 years and shows no sign of letting us down, even with Bluetooth 4, hdmi 2.0 and other specs that may have been superseded. That’s because the software is capable of being upgraded on the Apple TV as the specs have a certain degree of redundancy, and the Panasonic’s are too proprietory.
The point is there is more mileage in a device such as the Apple TV because of the specs; applied to a TV set with all the potential that optimisation allows, will allow a tv device to last considerably longer than an equivalent branded tv, and they already make money, albeit with ultra narrow margins. The value however is in the services and the infrastructure. The apps change, yes, but a lot of apps you can download today would still work on an iPhone 5. If you are worried about graphics, for games, then I can see you have a point, but for me the ATV is a general Audio visual device not a PS4.

Apols, I think I mis read the intent as apple TV as in a apple panel (past what Sony etc. are doing with LG OLED panels).

But, yep.

Games wise, one look at the apple app store tells you out is not far from a ghost town and gaming was never really going to do anything past a casual waste 5 mins.

4K it does really well (better than Netflix), streaming it does well and a good catalogue. I hope there is capacity to open up the pipes within the ATV hardware. Notch it up and perhaps it will rival disk, maybe next version.

 

[LCC0256]

I truly enjoy and get a great deal of use out of my Apple TV's. I have a "smart" TV (Vizio P Series 2018 model) but use the "smart" features sparingly. I cut the cable 10 years ago over total disgust at programming.

I have Netflix and Hulu along with 100 Mbps (down) internet service. All 3 cost me 65 dollars a month.
During football (US) season I upgrade to Hulu live. (costs another $30 per month - Sept thru Jan)

I find the user interface with my Apple TV 4 and 4K very easy. (The snags and confusing interface comes inside of Hulu) I invested in a good antenna for OTA broadcasts (which for some reason I find are superior in picture quality overall) So basically when a football game is on my local channel I use OTA. My only complaint is that my Apple TV 3's are not able to be used with the Hulu upgrade (Hulu Live) during the 5 months a year I subscribe to that upgrade. I will eventually add more Apple TV 4K's when I add more 4K TV's in the house. I will keep my ATV 3's for use with my ethernet connected Air Play system in my home. (They are great for that coupled with my AirPort Extreme and gigabit switches/ cabling throughout) Like all my other Apple devices the Apple TV's have lasted a very long time and "just work"

 

[Nelson!]

Its kind of fun to see the industry leaders reinvent the wheel, get you all excited about a product you were already excited about or thought couldn't get better. The picture just keeps getting better and better. If you ask I personally don't have the Apple TV 4k but it seems the Apple product delivers on bringing high quality and more application content then the regular smart Tv, not to mention it's easy upgradeable I'm sure, so sure to have a longer production run before being viewed as outdated.

Nelson

 

[400]

Its kind of fun to see the industry leaders reinvent the wheel, get you all excited about a product you were already excited about or thought couldn't get better. The picture just keeps getting better and better. If you ask I personally don't have the Apple TV 4k but it seems the Apple product delivers on bringing high quality and more application content then the regular smart Tv, not to mention it's easy upgradeable I'm sure, so sure to have a longer production run before being viewed as outdated.

Nelson

There is some of that, you could argue that why did we bother with shifting from a 30" CRT but 4k is a game changer. Technological and content and user and delivery, all a step up from HD. When I first saw native (non compressed) 4k and transmitted 4k, it really is a step up past HD, enough for me to go get a new TV.

Samsung are now selling 8K TV's. That might be a game changer purely down to people wanting the next gen but the jury will be out for a while I think. I understand that the upscaler is superb.

 

[Mac 128]

There is some of that, you could argue that why did we bother with shifting from a 30" CRT but 4k is a game changer. Technological and content and user and delivery, all a step up from HD. When I first saw native (non compressed) 4k and transmitted 4k, it really is a step up past HD, enough for me to go get a new TV.

Samsung are now selling 8K TV's. That might be a game changer purely down to people wanting the next gen but the jury will be out for a while I think. I understand that the upscaler is superb.

I don't know that 4K is a game changer for the average TV. I think the main difference between 4K and current OTA transmitted TV is the fact that its not really 1080p, it's 720p and 1080i. Both look amazing on my 65" TV, but nowhere near as good as my 1080p bluray content, and even streamed 1080p content. I find it very hard to distinguish high quality 1080p from 4K. HDR is the game changer for me.

The reality is, with a similar signal, a 55" or less TV from an average viewing position is going to look about the same with a 1080p source as it does with a 4K source. HDR will make a significant difference either way. For OLED, 65" and larger TVs, 4K might make a noticeable difference depending on the viewing distance. Obviously the larger the screen and the closer to the screen, 4K starts to become indispensable.

 

[400]

I don't know that 4K is a game changer for the average TV. I think the main difference between 4K and current OTA transmitted TV is the fact that its not really 1080p, it's 720p and 1080i. Both look amazing on my 65" TV, but nowhere near as good as my 1080p bluray content, and even streamed 1080p content. I find it very hard to distinguish high quality 1080p from 4K. HDR is the game changer for me.

The reality is, with a similar signal, a 55" or less TV from an average viewing position is going to look about the same with a 1080p source as it does with a 4K source. HDR will make a significant difference either way. For OLED, 65" and larger TVs, 4K might make a noticeable difference depending on the viewing distance. Obviously the larger the screen and the closer to the screen, 4K starts to become indispensable.

Of course it needs to be fed to a larger 4K screen however I can see the difference on smaller screen. Industry reports are interesting. One I read the other day using world wide sales data showing the growth was quite healthy if you are a 4K TV sales person however if a manufacture only sells 4k then a slam dunk.

Distance wise, I think too many people got hung up on graphs from the internet. Only sure way is to know what you are looking for and go look for yourself. I have good eyesight, not everyone has or not everyone really cares on the definition. It is a broad spectrum of people watching. A stadium full of rugby fans and the difference is obvious. I switch to the HD feed and it is glaringly obvious. I was surprised when I saw 4K on a 37". It was also obvious at many feet past where the graph said I could see it. Trust your eyes if you know what you are looking for.

US? UK the basic live stuff is all 1080i (very few use SD). OTA is a mish mash mix of day time rubbish and the main UK channels in SD and fewer HD. Too much SD if you ask me but I can do nothing about that. Some content comes in on the aerial at 1080p but not a lot.

Sources are interesting at 4K. 2k masters, 4k masters etc. I can agree that a 2k master is not far above 1080p but it will have HDR. But go watch Planet Earth II on disk, 5k master (at least) and it is sublime. My ISP does 4k live sport glass to glass and it is superb. It can be a minefield what you are watching etc. When I buy a disk I do a bit of research first on the masters. Then perhaps I might buy the Apple 4K version. I can see the difference better so at a disk and live sport but try not to notice and just enjoy the film.


My comment for 4k as a game changer. It is not just the resolution. In the background many standards have been set to allow this to happen, the HDMI port for example needs to be the right type. The transport method, compression software and hardware. Backhaul for many a telco and the tech in a blu ray to allow all this to come together. Live TV is superb but that needed kit upgrades, new methods etc. Filming needed new camera's and storage and handling and editing and all the rest that goes into a production. HDR rides on the back of all this but is a big part of the package.

PAL for the UK was around for a long time (NTSC for the US), HD came in in 2006 in the UK at 1080i for live. 4k 2015 or so and now 8k sets are on sale (yeah I know, what you going to watch). The step up was shifting the larger bulk of 1's and 0's around required for 4K and the benefit you get from it. All the background stuff.

 

[Nelson!]

There is some of that, you could argue that why did we bother with shifting from a 30" CRT but 4k is a game changer. Technological and content and user and delivery, all a step up from HD. When I first saw native (non compressed) 4k and transmitted 4k, it really is a step up past HD, enough for me to go get a new TV.

Samsung are now selling 8K TV's. That might be a game changer purely down to people wanting the next gen but the jury will be out for a while I think. I understand that the upscaler is superb.

Hey 400,

Thanks for enlightening me I didn't know that Samsung already has 8k TV's, it sounds like the next level game changer. However, That trend may take some time as I read. There is not a lot of 8k content out for the viewer's enjoyment, so it would 4k content at best until 8k content come about. Here's an informative article by digital trends detailing specific, and realistic consumer expectation on the 8k and 4k Tv experience... Everything one needs to know....

Nelson

 

[400]

Pre order at the moment. 4999 in UK loot for 55". Free delivery as well! Bargain.

October release I think? All in the up scaling ability says the reviews.

Edit. Also stuck on HDMI 2.0 I think? Frame rate low, with 2.0 as well that will be an early adopter blues.

 

[Mellofello808]

I sold my 2014 4k Samsung tv to a buddy. I went over to his house, and went to watch Netflix, and the apps are now broken. This was a $2000 tv at the time, and 4 short years later it is no longer supported.

 

[solarmon]

While a lot of these smart TVs are good now. Down the road they rarely get updates and brand new apps usually come to streaming boxes first.

But are they spying on you? We have a Samsung 55” that came out just before the wave of “smart” TVs. No thank you. I want a “dumb” TV with a great picture. Nothing more. Apple TV/watch/phones/macs keep your data private.

That’s why you buy Apple over Android/Windows/MS...every time, every device. It is Apple’s business model to NOT sell your meta data.

 

[satcomer]

TVs are daily UPGRADED software EVER from most manufactures unless it is the first year of RELEASE! A box or better multiple boxes can be updated quarterly or bettter you can always update that -$200 box anytime!

 

[Michael Scrip]

I got a TCL Series 6 with built in Roku and barely use my ATV3 any more. The Roku App Store is huge and I have found every app I need. I can use one input (and one remote) for Netflix, Amazon, Playstation Vue, ESPN, and Movies Anyware is huge (I just wish more film studios would participate). The interface is not as nice but I don't really care as the extreme convenience far outweighs a pretty UI for me.

The only reason I see for getting a 4K ATV would be if I invested heavily in HomeKit devices.

I got my mom TCL Roku set. It handles everything built-in: Netflix, Amazon Prime, CBS All Access and my Plex server.

It's great! And the one remote is simple... though she still needs her cable-box remote. But it's a lot easier than having a 3rd remote for the AppleTV and remembering to switch TV inputs.

Highly recommend!

 

[Mac 128]

I got my mom TCL Roku set. It handles everything built-in: Netflix, Amazon Prime, CBS All Access and my Plex server.

It's great! And the one remote is simple... though she still needs her cable-box remote. But it's a lot easier than having a 3rd remote for the AppleTV and remembering to switch TV inputs.

Highly recommend!

My Sony 900E remote controls my Apple TV. One remote. It even controls the cable box. Seems like an even better solution than your TCL set. That’s the beauty of CEC, which many new TVs support, perhaps even your TCL.

That said, using Roku as a platform for built-in smart features is likely a smaller risk than other smart TVs, assuming it is not tied to the basic TV controls as my Android TV OS is, in which case Roku could end up being dependent on the TV manufacturer updates to support them. Plus Roku has a good track record updating their devices. It would be similar to Apple introducing a panel with a built in ATV. But even Apple leaves behind their products at some point. The $1,000 TV I bought with my ATV still works great, but the ATV 2 is crippled in many respects. Good thing I can just replace it for another $150 and I’m good to go for another 5+ years.

 

[Ryand123]

I truly enjoy and get a great deal of use out of my Apple TV's. I have a "smart" TV (Vizio P Series 2018 model) but use the "smart" features sparingly. I cut the cable 10 years ago over total disgust at programming.

I have Netflix and Hulu along with 100 Mbps (down) internet service. All 3 cost me 65 dollars a month.
During football (US) season I upgrade to Hulu live. (costs another $30 per month - Sept thru Jan)

I find the user interface with my Apple TV 4 and 4K very easy. (The snags and confusing interface comes inside of Hulu) I invested in a good antenna for OTA broadcasts (which for some reason I find are superior in picture quality overall) So basically when a football game is on my local channel I use OTA. My only complaint is that my Apple TV 3's are not able to be used with the Hulu upgrade (Hulu Live) during the 5 months a year I subscribe to that upgrade. I will eventually add more Apple TV 4K's when I add more 4K TV's in the house. I will keep my ATV 3's for use with my ethernet connected Air Play system in my home. (They are great for that coupled with my AirPort Extreme and gigabit switches/ cabling throughout) Like all my other Apple devices the Apple TV's have lasted a very long time and "just work"

OTA picture quality is better because the signal is less compressed / higher bitrate than either cable or streaming. My problem is I live in apartment so I'm stuck with an indoor antenna and the reception is very weather dependent.

 

[LCC0256]

OTA picture quality is better because the signal is less compressed / higher bitrate than either cable or streaming. My problem is I live in apartment so I'm stuck with an indoor antenna and the reception is very weather dependent.

Thank you so much for explaining that to me. I may have read it before but your explanation is concise and easy to understand.

 

[kaken55]

I've been using an apple tv for the last few years very happily with my (now) dinosaur-ed old TV. Having bought a lovely new LG 2017 4k tv, the OS on it seems pretty damned good: Netflix, Amazon, Youtube, NAS streaming with Plex, BBC iplayer, etc all in fabulous resolution and the TV seamlessly picks the correct resolution without me having to guess or change settings.

So I'm just wondering since everyone talking on here about the Apple TV 4k must equally have a new TV with an equally good inbuilt OS, what are you all doing by adding an extra box? What is the value that you see, other than adding itunes as a subscription source which is no big deal given all the others out there, and adding some games which equally seems no big deal if you have a proper gaming machine under the telly.

Am I missing something? Genuinely, I expected to hop out and buy a new apple 4k box to fit underneath the new tv and am struggling to see a reason why. Plus I see all these complaints about it not really handling the resolution or the colour stream or the sound particularly well...

Yeah WebOS is now fluid and no lag with the new version of LG webos , i am attaching a pic of the webos https://www.techwibe.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/IMG_20190114_120307-1.jpg?w=2000&ssl=1

 

[JeffPerrin]

The Apple TV will get regular updates. The OS on the smart TVs become abandonware almost as soon as a new model comes out... (Not to mention the constant security and privacy issues you have to watch out for with smart TVs)

Just a few recent links that took no effort to find...

How to scan your Samsung TV for viruses

Malware beware

www.techradar.com

Samsung's Warning To Owners Of QLED Smart TVs Is Quickly Deleted

Samsung warned owners of its Smart TVs to manually check for malicious viruses and attached a helpful video. Unfortunately, the video demonstrated a laborious process and raised the question as to why such updates are not automatic. The tweet was quickly deleted. The issue remains.

www.forbes.com

How to Turn Off Smart TV Snooping Features - Consumer Reports

Smart TVs collect viewing data. Here's what you need to know to reduce the data collection for all the major brands of smart TVs. These TV privacy settings limit what manufacturers learn about you.

www.consumerreports.org