4k TVs are so advanced, whats the point of Apple TV 4k?

[Mac 128]

Long term speaking this is going to be an issue for Apple TV. Having an add on unit simply isn't going to be a long term play because TVs like Samsungs and LGs will continue to improve with software and apps leaving a standalone unit like Apple TV obsolete in some ways. This isn't just singling out Apple TV but ALL units like Roku. TVs are just too advanced at this point and will continue to gain ground. It will be like streaming vs discs in some ways. It will be one less remote and one less device and once less cable that people need.


I am assuming Apple will actually release a TV that has all of this built in to create a more unified TV/Internet experience and shake up the TV market.

I agree. I think Apple was just waiting for OLED to be perfected before they launch their own TV set. That's why we've been waiting so long for a new Thunderbolt display. But we're likely at least 2 years out before Apple decides to jump into the the TV display business. However, it's still pretty clear that Apple will need to offer a TV box for all the millions of sets customers already own, whether they chose to upgrade to a new Apple TV panel or not, for some time to come. There's just too many uses for an ATV for anyone who is invested in Apple's integrated ecosystem.

 

[Juicy Box]

I think Apple was just waiting for OLED to be perfected before they launch their own TV set.

But we're likely at least 2 years out before Apple decides to jump into the the TV display business.

I wouldn't hold your breath on this one....

There has been rumors of an Apple Television for the last 13 years. Every couple years, another rumor pops up, but I am not sure if Apple wants to get into this market.

Televisions have thin profit margins, and it might be hard for Apple to enter that arena while obtaining the profit margins that they are used to.

Maybe they can do it, and I would like to see what they would come up with.

 

[davidoloan]

I think if you have an LG TV then you may have a point because that interface is really good. Sony’s Android tv is trash as an interface and I just want to avoid using it.

I know its one of the best, but I have it on a projector and I simply don't like it and don't want to use it.

The Apple TV interface is elegant and mostly enjoyable to use though there are frustrations (such as siri)
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I wouldn't hold your breath on this one....

There has been rumors of an Apple Television for the last 13 years. Every couple years, another rumor pops up, but I am not sure if Apple wants to get into this market.

Televisions have thin profit margins, and it might be hard for Apple to enter that arena while obtaining the profit margins that they are used to.

Maybe they can do it, and I would like to see what they would come up with.

Even if they are not going to redefine the TV, it is now a much simpler option for them to market an OLED. Bang & Olufsen are about to market an OLED which will be a standard LG in terms of processing unlike the Sony, Panasonic, Phillips and I presume Loewe models.

My newish iMac, quite an old design now still looks in a different league to even the Loewe's, which are the best TV visual designs, so I would be really interested in an Apple designed TV.

I would prefer the Apple TV boxes to plugin as my Plasma's are now five or six years old and I am only now thinking of moving to OLED. Worried about software updates.

I sense that Tim has moved a bit from his primarily actuarial approach to updates and products as it has done a bit of damage to the reputation (Mac Pro), but who knows if we will see a TV.

At least the OLED's available do have some quite a bit of visual design merit e.g the new LG wallpaper models.

The new Loewe .........
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I agree. I think Apple was just waiting for OLED to be perfected before they launch their own TV set. That's why we've been waiting so long for a new Thunderbolt display. But we're likely at least 2 years out before Apple decides to jump into the the TV display business.

I hope so but I think that was simply Tim being way to numbers focused and getting it wrong; decision reversal and just how bad the LG monitor situation was.

 

[mmm1345]

WebOS on LG is actually really good. And for 2017 models they are releasing an updated to support Dolby TrueHD/atmos on the TV and ARC. Not the current DD+/Lossy atmos but true lossless atmos. That's huge.

I was surprised I got the update yesterday since LG isn't that good about auto updates.

 

[davidoloan]

I don't know, but maybe there is a place for stereo homepods, and surround sound homepods, combined with an Apple OLED.

 

[archer75]

I was surprised I got the update yesterday since LG isn't that good about auto updates.

You do have to have the auto box checked for it to auto update. I don't check mine just because i'd rather read about an update before I do it.

 

[mmm1345]

You do have to have the auto box checked for it to auto update. I don't check mine just because i'd rather read about an update before I do it.

I know. Yesterday was the first over the air update I received all year. Other updates have to be manually installed. But I don't really want my TV to be updating firmware.Especially considering what Samsung did to their customers recently. If it ain't broke don't "fix" it is my motto.

 

[archer75]

I know. Yesterday was the first over the air update I received all year. Other updates have to be manually installed. But I don't really want my TV to be updating firmware.Especially considering what Samsung did to their customers recently. If it ain't broke don't "fix" it is my motto.

I've had 2 or 3 OTA updates on my LG this year. One adding support for HLG.

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

I don't know, but maybe there is a place for stereo homepods, and surround sound homepods, combined with an Apple OLED.

This is EXACTLY what I was thinking! Apple OLED 2018/19 for the Mac Pro. Hopefully they'll offer 40" upwards and simply add an Apple TV 4K It would look amazing in a contemporary lounge. I've seen houses were the 27" iMac is the TV and thy look amazing on low level units!

 

[Sakurambo-kun]

Audio. Connecting a box to your receiver instead of your TV is going to give you better audio. The ATV also has way more apps than a smart tv. And streaming boxes tend to get updated more often than smart tv's.
For my local rips I use the nvidia shield as it bitstreams just about everything. For internet streaming apps I use the apple tv as it has more apps.

That depends where you are. In the UK the Apple TV has very few apps, in fact it's missing most of the main UK streaming apps. By contrast my LG OLED has pretty much the entire suite of UK apps.

I use my Apple TV for one single purpose - accessing my iTunes library. Other than that, my TV's apps are much better. They also know how and when to switch between SDR and HDR, which is something the Apple TV desperately needs.
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This is EXACTLY what I was thinking! Apple OLED 2018/19 for the Mac Pro. Hopefully they'll offer 40" upwards and simply add an Apple TV 4K It would look amazing in a contemporary lounge. I've seen houses were the 27" iMac is the TV and thy look amazing on low level units!

I have an OLED TV and I love it, but OLEDs are not the best choice for PC displays as they suffer from burn in. It wouldn't be long before menu bars and the like would be permanently burned in.

 

[priitv8]

I have an OLED TV and I love it, but OLEDs are not the best choice for PC displays as they suffer from burn in. It wouldn't be long before menu bars and the like would be permanently burned in.

That's why modern OLEDs employ various tricks to counteract the image retention.

 

[Strelok]

I still think an external player is useful, if not an AppleTV then something else like a Roku, Amazon Fire, etc. The main reason is because the internal apps can be buggy, at least for Samsung. I've had my KS8000 crash a few times with Netflix and Amazon, requiring an annoying reset and redoing my settings. Plex also doesn't work properly with the Smart TV app, but it works perfectly fine with my PS4.

 

[bluraycinema]

I sometimes have lip sync issues with Amazon on my 4K tv and have to go back to my ATV.

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

That depends where you are. In the UK the Apple TV has very few apps, in fact it's missing most of the main UK streaming apps. By contrast my LG OLED has pretty much the entire suite of UK apps.

I use my Apple TV for one single purpose - accessing my iTunes library. Other than that, my TV's apps are much better. They also know how and when to switch between SDR and HDR, which is something the Apple TV desperately needs.
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I have an OLED TV and I love it, but OLEDs are not the best choice for PC displays as they suffer from burn in. It wouldn't be long before menu bars and the like would be permanently burned in.

WOW, you are totally correct. Now this is going to be interesting! There's rumours that the iPa Pro will have OLED next year. I wonder how this issue will be solved? Menu bars will probably only be visible when you point near them etc and screensaver may be activated after a few minutes. Very interesting!

 

[priitv8]

I wonder how this issue will be solved? Menu bars will probably only be visible when you point near them etc and screensaver may be activated after a few minutes. Very interesting!

I think pixel shifting is the answer to this.

 

[fathergll]

I agree. I think Apple was just waiting for OLED to be perfected before they launch their own TV set. That's why we've been waiting so long for a new Thunderbolt display. But we're likely at least 2 years out before Apple decides to jump into the the TV display business. However, it's still pretty clear that Apple will need to offer a TV box for all the millions of sets customers already own, whether they chose to upgrade to a new Apple TV panel or not, for some time to come. There's just too many uses for an ATV for anyone who is invested in Apple's integrated ecosystem.

Definitely agree. Apple TV won't be going away but it's clear a separate unit that people need to purchase isn't the future.

Yes, I could see Apple really waiting for OLED to be something that they could mass produce from a supplier but also there is probably a lot of new features with the TV itself that they are waiting on. I think ultimately they would like this to be the ultimate cord cutters solution that blurs the line between TV and a Computer but there is probably a lot of road blocks for making his work out in reality.

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

Definitely agree. Apple TV won't be going away but it's clear a separate unit that people need to purchase isn't the future.

Yes, I could see Apple really waiting for OLED to be something that they could mass produce from a supplier but also there is probably a lot of new features with the TV itself that they are waiting on. I think ultimately they would like this to be the ultimate cord cutters solution that blurs the line between TV and a Computer but there is probably a lot of road blocks for making his work out in reality.

Don't forget Apple invested 2billion dollars in LG OLED production over the summer. Could be a start of something great!

 

[Mac 128]

Definitely agree. Apple TV won't be going away but it's clear a separate unit that people need to purchase isn't the future.

Yes, I could see Apple really waiting for OLED to be something that they could mass produce from a supplier but also there is probably a lot of new features with the TV itself that they are waiting on. I think ultimately they would like this to be the ultimate cord cutters solution that blurs the line between TV and a Computer but there is probably a lot of road blocks for making his work out in reality.

Well there is that mysterious quite from Steve Jobs about how he "cracked" the TV interface before he died. Perhaps it's truly revolutionary and Apple is sitting on it until they get their TV content deals in place, or otherwise waiting for technology to catch up.

I've only just started using Siri to navigate the ATV 4K and I'm using it a lot more than I thought I ever would. If Apple could enable that integration throughout all third party apps, I'd use it far more. I'm surprised Apple doesn't require third parties to update Apple with their content changes. It's interesting that I'm actively switching between the built-in Android TV platform and ATV depending on what I want to do, something I don't see changing anytime soon. And I believe that Apple is training developers to create intuitive apps for the ATV 4 series before they launch anything. One app I rely on Android for is a web browser, of which the choice is limited to Opera and Puffin. WebOS has an amazing browser built-in. Apple has nothing. And it's probably because web browsers on a TV with a remote are clumsy. Your comment about computer integration is interesting because, like the browser, the interface will be an important component in that merger, which is where the developer training comes into play.

Apple doesn't like to introduce things until they can do it their way, so no clumsy browsers allowed on ATV, including Safari. And most apps are still inconsistent in their usability. The last thing I think Apple wants to do is bring a keyboard and mouse into the living room. I'd be happy to use an iPad, or even my iPhone, but the remote app is kind of a mess there too. In the end, it's unlikely Apple will get much attention just sticking their existing TV box into an OLED screen. How they are going to improve on that experience to make an Apple panel a must have upgrade though is anybody's guess ...

 

[ErikGrim]

I like my panels dumb, and my devices smart.

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

Well there is that mysterious quite from Steve Jobs about how he "cracked" the TV interface before he died. Perhaps it's truly revolutionary and Apple is sitting on it until they get their TV content deals in place, or otherwise waiting for technology to catch up.

I've only just started using Siri to navigate the ATV 4K and I'm using it a lot more than I thought I ever would. If Apple could enable that integration throughout all third party apps, I'd use it far more. I'm surprised Apple doesn't require third parties to update Apple with their content changes. It's interesting that I'm actively switching between the built-in Android TV platform and ATV depending on what I want to do, something I don't see changing anytime soon. And I believe that Apple is training developers to create intuitive apps for the ATV 4 series before they launch anything. One app I rely on Android for is a web browser, of which the choice is limited to Opera and Puffin. WebOS has an amazing browser built-in. Apple has nothing. And it's probably because web browsers on a TV with a remote are clumsy. Your comment about computer integration is interesting because, like the browser, the interface will be an important component in that merger, which is where the developer training comes into play.

Apple doesn't like to introduce things until they can do it their way, so no clumsy browsers allowed on ATV, including Safari. And most apps are still inconsistent in their usability. The last thing I think Apple wants to do is bring a keyboard and mouse into the living room. I'd be happy to use an iPad, or even my iPhone, but the remote app is kind of a mess there too. In the end, it's unlikely Apple will get much attention just sticking their existing TV box into an OLED screen. How they are going to improve on that experience to make an Apple panel a must have upgrade though is anybody's guess ...

If Apple does launch one, we'll see ProMotion in it, like a huge iPad Pro Now ProMotion will be a completely new super smooth experience!

 

[George Dawes]

imo loewe are a bno wanabee

at best

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

imo loewe are a bno wanabee

at best

OK thanks.

 

[Tech198]

I don't know, but maybe there is a place for stereo homepods, and surround sound homepods, combined with an Apple OLED.

Another market shift

 

[Ghost31]

For me it’s really just for iTunes since I buy so much of my stuff on there. If it wasn’t for that, I probably wouldn’t care too much about Apple TV. Someone please tell me I can get iTunes stuff on smart TVs now. PLEASE

 

[Macalicious2011]

I like my panels dumb, and my devices smart.

Same here. I focused on buying a very good panel with a stable OS that doesn't freeze, need occasional resetting. I can add the smart features in the way I please.

Another reason why Apple TV, ChromeCast and Fire Stick will remain relevant is that TV manufacturers are lazy when it comes to updating the OS of their TVs. I bought a bedroom Sony Smart TV in 2012 and BBC iPlayer no longer works and is unlikely to ever be updated for that TV and similar ones.