970 in Powerbooks?

[HasanDaddy]

I'm planning on getting a 17" and I'm wondering now if I should wait and see what happens at WWDC?

With that said --- how much better is a 970 compared to a 1 ghz G4??

THANKS!

 

[vniow]

Originally posted by HasanDaddy

With that said --- how much better is a 970 compared to a 1 ghz G4??

From what I can gather from reading some of the posts here, it's like going from a Celeron to a 3.06Ghz PIV with Hyperthreading, but that may be a slight exaggeration.

 

[Snowy_River]

I think that the one compelling argument for this being the case is that of production yields. If we are to believe what rumors there have been about how the production yields have been from the initial runs of the 970s, then there must already be a decent supply of lower clocked chips. Perhaps there isn't yet enough of a supply of the speedier chips to release the new PowerMacs, but with the early production runs producing usable lower clocked chips, I could see Apple deciding to aim for a PowerBook release for the 970.

Of course they're going to need to get the PowerMac line updated. Even if the 15" PowerBook is released next month with the 970, I'm sure that the new PowerMacs with the 970 would be released within a month or two. And, also, of course they have to immediately upgrade the 12" and 17" models.

As an interesting note, with the 12" PowerBook in existence, stepping the iBook up to the G4 will be a trivial step. (i.e. repackaging 12" PB as an iBook once the new 970 model is released...)

 

[2COOL4SCHOOL]

Top of the line

I think whatever PB is the top of the line will get the 970 first. Right now thats the 17".

There are still 15' Ti Books in supply, but we should see somthing pretty soon. Maybe a price drop.

Another site (Macosrumors, at the bottom of their page) thinks the new books are ready now.

 

[idkew]

Re: New 15" PB with a PPC970?

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Just a note:

MacWhispers is reporting a rumor that the new 15" PowerBooks will sport the IBM 970 PPC processor:



I'd love it if it came to pass

http://www.envestco2.com/macwhispers/archives/000055.php

while that would be amazing and unprecedented, i doubt it will happen.

i am definitly upgrading from my Ti667 to a Al17" PPC970 when it comes out. Apple will have my $3,000+ when that happens in a second.

i am thinking about 6 or so months after the 970 is in desktops that this will happen. maybe 1 more update to the current G4 powerbooks, then come the 970's.

 

[idkew]

Originally posted by HasanDaddy
I'm planning on getting a 17" and I'm wondering now if I should wait and see what happens at WWDC?

With that said --- how much better is a 970 compared to a 1 ghz G4??

THANKS!

it amtters what you are using right now, and if you neede a new cpu right now.

my laptop can wait a year and still do its job. can yours? do you need a new computer now?

just remember, whenever you buy a new computer, it will very quickly lose it's "top of the line."

a new computer now is worth more than a new one in 6 to 12 months. i would DEFINITLY wait, but that is me.

 

[pyrotoaster]

Originally posted by neutrino23
It is too fast to jump to a 970. Apple is in a way rather conservative. It would make a lot of sense to bring out the 15 inch Al book and figure out the manufacturing problems with that (mechanical strength, heat, Airport antenna, FCC issues, parts suppliers, ...) then switch up to the 970 when they have a solid platform to put it in. It would be a real drap to come out with the 970 PowerBook and then have to have a recall two months later because of some weird little problem unrelated to the processor. Recall the problems Apple has had with loose batteries, CD's scraping inside the drive, chipping paint, etc.

Not to mention that these chips are just barely coming into production. How can you launch a product without a known supply of parts?

My speculation is that we'll see the 970 in the PowerMacs later this summer and, if all goes well, the powerbooks will get the 970 around November.

No, no, no! (Sorry.) First off, Apple isn't conservative. Think of things like the Newton, eWorld, and the Cube. Not conservative ventures (in all fairness, Apple does keep a, as CNBC describes it, "massive cash hoard").

About AirPort technology testing, Apple has adopted 802.11g before it has even received official wireless status. And on Powerbook defects, think about those pesky exploding AC chargers back from the G3 PBs. And problems like paint chipping have been or are being resolved now.

IBM isn't at all clear about PowerPC 970 production. They could be producing large numbers of chips as we speak, and we honestly wouldn't know. Besides, Apple has faced supply issues before. It did take three months to start shipping the 17" PB.

Don't forget that Apple can announce something new before they actually release it (although that isn't really a good idea in this situation). I think we'll see Powermac 970s announced at the same time as Powerbook 970s. The faster towers will just take longer to ship. I just hope they update the iBook before then (not that I think they will, I'm just waiting for the next revision)!

 

[-hh]

Originally posted by Sun Baked
This is an uterly silly rumor, which would make the PowerBook 17 the modern equivalent of the Mac IIvi (lasted 5 months).

Considering that MacRumor's buying guide says that Apple has been upgrading the Powerbook line every 146 days (4.8 months), it doesn't sound silly at all.

Why would Apple do this to, only kill the all new design within a matter of months, they wouldn't.

Because it won't be a complete obsolecence. Apple now knows better than to invent & destroy a complete product on a ~6 month cycle.

But their track record is to try to update all of their products every ~6 months. As such, the Powerbook 17" will be due for its first refresh at around this point in time. That refresh is more likely to be non-radical, such as a speedbump. It won't be a new display or new case, but a new drop-in motherboard could be a fairly low impact transformation.

Even so, a strategy that I think might make sense would be for the 970 to come out at this time, with both the PowerMac's and the 15" Powerbook using the .13 die set form factor.

They'll freshen the 12" and 17" with a cache and a speedbump, but they'll otherwise leave them alone for 3-4 months. This should extend them far enough out the timeline so that their transition to the 970 can be straight to the .09 die set.

That's the conceptual strategic roadmap that I suspect, as it pertains at least to Powerbooks & Powermac's. I have no idea how to incorporate the iBook and iMac pieces into this jigsaw puzzle. Maybe I'll get lucky and Steve will send me a private note


-hh

 

[Sun Baked]

Forget it, I give up.

If you believe this fantasy, you'll believe my signature.

 

[mcs37]

Originally posted by HasanDaddy
I'm planning on getting a 17" and I'm wondering now if I should wait and see what happens at WWDC?

With that said --- how much better is a 970 compared to a 1 ghz G4??

I am thinking about waiting as well. What I am trying to do is negotiate a sweet deal with Apple through my college, and get a 12.1" PB with airport extreme and 3 years of warranty. Probably up the RAM to 640, all for around $1800. Then I wait until the next year and my dad buys me a 17" alubook w/ PPC 970, Panther, airport extreme, USB 2.0, and an HDTV tuner built-in. Hell of a graduation gift!

But the deal is, I'd save $1,000 and I'd have a tiny laptop I could haul around next year until I get a new alubook for graduation. The size of the 12.1" is very tempting for the college student. I love the 17" but I don't think I want to haul it around to each class.

Honestly I think this is a good plan because I need to get some graduation gift, and I'm a CS major. We need big toys.


As for the 1 GHz G4 vs. a 1 GHz 970, they both process 1 billion instructions per second, but the 970 uses less power and produces less heat, and most importantly, it processes data in 64-bit chunks rather than 32-bit, which also means maximum amount of RAM is in the terabytes. Basically, with a 1 GHz 970 powerbook you'll be processing a LOT more data much faster and using less power. In short, perfection, for now.

Mike

 

[Cabrewolf]

I have a few overall thoughts on the implementation of the 970 that i would like to hear someone address.

I imagine the implementation of the 970 being similar to that of the PowerPC in that it will still be compatible with current software, but would be optimized with new software. I would think that when the 970 is introduced in any machine, it will hurt the sales of all other mac's. This is due to the feeling that a larger change is coming (64bit). Because of this it would be important for apple to introduce it in as many platforms as possible, as soon as possible. This would include the imac and ibook going to a scaled down 970 to maintain maximum effectiveness with the new 64 bit software.

As far as the 970 being introduced in the 15" first, seams to make a great deal of sense at this time. The 970 is not being produced in quantities to supply all the PowerBooks or PowerMacs, so introduce it in the 15" to achieve what apple loves to do (be the first) and then as production of the chip ramps up begin introducing them in other systems as well. The reason for the 15" and not a high end powermac would be that the 15 would see the most benefit form a faster chip requiring less power.

Curious to know what others think.

 

[GPTurismo]

It doesn't make sense. The PPC970 is new, and it will probably take at least a year for them to iron out the system in the new PowerMacs before it is mobile ready. Look at ho wlong it took the G4 to get mobile

 

[e-coli]

The reasons for possible putting the 970 in the 15" seem fairly simple. All the chips that Apple has shipped faster than 1 GHz have required the ENORMOUS heat sink. This tells me that they run extremely hot. since the Powerbook 15" alread had a 1 GHz processor in it, they are now moving into the "hot" chips.

Apple always cuts big corners with new products to pay for the R&D. The screen is the sell in the 17", so people will still purchase it, even if it has a G4, and the 15" has the 970.

I wouldn't be suprised to see a 970 in the 15".

 

[Death2PCs]

Re: Re: New 15" PB with a PPC970?

Originally posted by idkew
while that would be amazing and unprecedented, i doubt it will happen.

i am definitly upgrading from my Ti667 to a Al17" PPC970 when it comes out. Apple will have my $3,000+ when that happens in a second.

i am thinking about 6 or so months after the 970 is in desktops that this will happen. maybe 1 more update to the current G4 powerbooks, then come the 970's.

totally agree.

 

[nagromme]

Originally posted by Postal
17" PowerBook

- 1.2 GHz PPC 970
- 512 MB of DDR333 memory
- 128 MB GeForce FX 5600 Go graphics
- 80 GB hard disk
- Superdrive
- Bluetooth
- Airport Extreme card

Maybe that IS a dream for now... but it's also what I'm waiting on until I buy. A 970 and truly TOP GPU.

Unrelated note--the reason Apple would put the 970 in PowerMacs first is that PowerMac sales are the market Apple (and customers) are hurting in, and that's where the perceived need is greatest. 970 PowerBooks would only make the desktop lineup look even worse.

Now, 970s better follow in laptops pretty quick anyway, if this is the year of the laptop!

 

[backspinner]

I bet that IBM already has a lot of wafers with the 970 produced, only to find out that the yield is very good. Good on the slower parts at least.

Remember that they want to introduce them in THEIR servers at 1.8GHz after the summer. IBM is not the company to use cutting edge parts, you know parts that still feel hot from the oven they come from. What to do with all these testwafers? Well, sell them to Apple. Apple will happily use them in their computers. But they can not build PowerMacs with slower than 1.4GHz processors, but for the PowerBooks they are fine...

The selling point for the 17"PB is not the speeed, but the size.

 

[Macpoops]

If i remember correctly the 970 draws 10 or so watts at 1ghz so this could be a possibility for the Powerbooks. After all that is about half of what the current 1ghz G4 does. Call me crazy but wasn't the reason for the g4 taking so long to get to the powerbooks was the fact it sucked so much juice compared to the g3. Now we have a next generation chip that also is more efficent. Makes a logical case for a quick integration into the current designs. The 17" was probably designed with this as a forethought as well as the new 15.4" when ever it sees the light.

 

[Frobozz]

I dunno...

Originally posted by Snowy_River
I think that the one compelling argument for this being the case is that of production yields. If we are to believe what rumors there have been about how the production yields have been from the initial runs of the 970s, then there must already be a decent supply of lower clocked chips. Perhaps there isn't yet enough of a supply of the speedier chips to release the new PowerMacs, but with the early production runs producing usable lower clocked chips, I could see Apple deciding to aim for a PowerBook release for the 970.

I don't know... if the portables are running faster than anything but a dual 1.42 desktop, that's going to essential stop all sales of the desktop line. Granted, it's low now, but it doesn't make sense to put the 970 in anything but the PowerMac line first.

 

[Frobozz]

I can't help but think...

I can't help but think that NO ONE figured the PowerBooks would be updated at MWSF. Only a couple weeks ago we started getting what they announced then-- at least the 17" PB. I does give me the feeling that perhaps the PB will be updated at the same time as the PowerMac... but it will NEVER be updated before. That's just insane, IMHO.

Apple has been pretty good at keeping the most radical of changes from the public's eye... with only brief whispers of what's to come.

I expect the WWDC to unveil the 970's in at least the PM's, and maybe the PB's... and I would think the top of the line PM would hit dual 2 GHz 970s.

 

[MacFan25]

If they put the 970 in the 15inchers, then I think that they would also put it in the 17incher. because if they just put it in the 15in, then then I don't think as many people would buy the 17in.

 

[cb911]

yes, the stagnant elephant that is Apple has to put the 970 in the PowerMacs before the PowerBooks get them.

oh well, one thing is for sure... my 667 TiBook is starting to get old & i've gotta sell it!!

 

[dabirdwell]

I think that a PowerBook debut of the 1-1.4 Ghz 970 would make PowerMac users look forward even more eagerly to the release of the really badass desktop systems. More hype, more development time for Apple.

 

[Snowy_River]

Okay, here's a thought, the 970 is debuted in the 15" PB, but, at the same time, the new 970 based PM systems are announced with the shipping dates for these systems put out by a four to six weeks (or something like that). This would give Apple time to get the lower yield, higher speed chips for the PM systems, while still allowing them to release the first 970s in the PBs.

And, I know that this is all pie in the sky right now. I don't necessarily believe that it'll happen. However, I also refuse to see it as an impossibility.

For those who were cited the G4 as an example of how chips always take time to go from the desktop version to the portable version, I'd like to respond by citing the G3. The first G3 desktop systems were introduced in November of 1997. The first G3 PowerBook (aka kanga) was introduced, yup, you guessed it, November of 1997. They rolled them out side-by-side.

Now we have a new chip that should be portable from the get-go, just like the G3 was, and I don't see any real reason why Apple wouldn't release them side by side, or even release the PB version a little ahead of the desktop version (of course, as I said earlier, giving full acknowledgement to the fact that the new PowerMacs were on their way).

 

[HasanDaddy]

After reading all of this, I'm heavily considering waiting now (which I hate doing)

if we were just talking about a regular speedbump, then I'd go ahead and splurge on the curretn 17"

but the fact that we're talkin' 32 bit versus 64 bit processing is a VERY big deal, right???

 

[AhmedFaisal]

Two Words: TOO HOT!

Thats vapor unfortunately. The current PPC970 is too hot to be deployed in a mobile system. Although I would love the idea.
Cheers,

Ahmed