970 in Powerbooks?

[MacWhispers]

Re: Two Words: TOO HOT!

Originally posted by AhmedFaisal
Thats vapor unfortunately. The current PPC970 is too hot to be deployed in a mobile system. Although I would love the idea.
Cheers,

Ahmed

Actually, Ahmed, a 970 at 1.2GHz dissipates 10 fewer watts than a G4 at 1.0GHz. The exact opposite of what you say is true.

The 970 is in many ways a much more appropriate PowerBook chip than is the G4.

And, understand, the PPC 970 has been sampling at well over 1GHz for over 6-months... plenty of time for a motherboard redesign on the PowerBook.

My source on this one's a very serious, very dry oriental engineering type, who's worked with me for over two months on a development project. The more I reflect on our conversation, the more I believe him.

 

[AllenPSU]

970 in a PB.

A 970 in a PowerBook would be great. I am waiting for either new iBook release or a slight drop in prices on the existing mid-grade PowerBooks. I've been wanting to buy a 12" laptop but wanted something in the sub $1900 range and didn't want to get a computer that was out of date before I used it. I almost did that with the PB170 but got luck and managed to get a PB180... would like to see the iBooks to get a sub $1900 G4 or 1G G3 with a superdrive. Maybe I'm dreaming.

 

[GrizzlyHippo]

IF this happens...

My take on a prospective launch IF this rumour were true is the following:

The PB 970 and PM 970's will be annonuced on the same day with the 15"PB running at 1Ghz-ish available immediately as well as a 1.4Ghz PowerMac (the low end) also being available immediately. They will then say that the middle and top end 970 PM's will be available in 4-6 weeks or so. I should think there will be enough 1Ghz and 1.4Ghz chips available for this with the faster chips coming later.

That way they please the desktop and portable market and don't piss anyone off.

This launch idea would also tie in with earlier rumours that 2 different motherboards were going into production a few weeks ago. Therefore, the new PM case and motherboard are ready and when yields of higher speed 970's are sufficient, the middle and top PM's will ship.

I am avoiding the subject of the 12" and 17" PB's as I'm stumped to think how they will handle them.

Just my thoughts. I want a new 15.X" PB no matter what, but a 970 inside would be a bonus!

Grizzly

 

[Frobozz]

Re: Two Words: TOO HOT!

Originally posted by AhmedFaisal
Thats vapor unfortunately. The current PPC970 is too hot to be deployed in a mobile system. Although I would love the idea.
Cheers,

Ahmed

No, it's not. ;-)

 

[mcs37]

Originally posted by GPTurismo
It doesn't make sense. The PPC970 is new, and it will probably take at least a year for them to iron out the system in the new PowerMacs before it is mobile ready. Look at ho wlong it took the G4 to get mobile

The G4 is so old though. I will probably go ahead and buy the 12.1" Powerbook to hold me off for a year (and to have a nice _real_ portable computer), but that chipset is several years old now and the 970 is the future for Apple. Why wait to bring in the future when Apple could set the bar so high for laptops that no one else (literally) could compete?

Imagine a 17" alubook with PPC970 released 6 months from now. It would blow away competition. Hell there wouldn't be any competition since Apple already has so many other great things going for it in the 17". It would be revolutionary. If Apple waits too long to put the PPC 970 into powerbooks, someone else will be putting an IA-64 chipset into a wintel box and Apple will lose its competitive advantage (at least in terms of 64-bit introduction). It makes sense for Apple to release the PPC 970 in powerbooks sometime this year.

Mike

 

[mcs37]

Re: Re: Re: New 15" PB with a PPC970?

Originally posted by Death2PCs
totally agree.

I agree too. They will have my $3,000+ in a heartbeat for a 17" alubook PPC 970.

 

[mcs37]

Originally posted by backspinner
I bet that IBM already has a lot of wafers with the 970 produced, only to find out that the yield is very good. Good on the slower parts at least.

Anyone know where IBM is producing the PPC 970? I work for IBM and would like to ask around on the inside.

 

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by GPTurismo
It doesn't make sense. The PPC970 is new, and it will probably take at least a year for them to iron out the system in the new PowerMacs before it is mobile ready. Look at ho wlong it took the G4 to get mobile

As a bit of comparison:

603e
PowerMac Release: August 1995
PowerBook Release: August 1995

(Note: 601, 603, and 604 were never released in PowerBooks)

G3
PowerMac Release: November 1997
PowerBook Release: November 1997

G4
PowerMac Release: September 1999
PowerBook Release: January 2001

Although the current track record with the G4 seems to indicate a delay between release in PowerMac and PowerBook forms, looking back further it seems clear that whenever Apple has had a chip that could be released as a portable at the same time as the desktop release, they have. Indeed, the G3 was released as a 250MHz PowerBook vs. a 233 or 266MHz PowerMac. Who knows, we may start to really see the PowerBooks rival the PowerMacs in speed and power again...

 

[dongmin]

Re: Re: Two Words: TOO HOT!

Originally posted by MacWhispers
Actually, Ahmed, a 970 at 1.2GHz dissipates 10 fewer watts than a G4 at 1.0GHz. The exact opposite of what you say is true.

Do you have links for this info?

I was curious myself so I did some digging around, and according to this article, the G4 7455 dissipates 20 w (typical) at 1.0 ghz. The 970 comes in at 19 w (typical) at 1.2 ghz, according to IBM. As far as I know the current PB uses the 7455, but maybe not.

So the 970 definitely consumes less power than the 7455 at the same frequency, but it's not as dramatic as you say. What is or, will be, dramatic is the boost in performace.

I'm curious about the power dissipation of the 970 at 1.0 ghz. If it drops to something like 15 W, maybe a dual config would even be possible. Can you imagine it, a dual 1.0 ghz 970 Powerbook with one of those variable timing technologies that have been rumored?

Powerpage reports of 15" Al books being released soon. But no mention anywhere of the 970 making the cut.

 

[dongmin]

Originally posted by NavyIntel007
You misread the article. It said that apple originally was putting the G4 in the 15" but cancelled production and decided to put the 970 in them.

No, I read the article just fine. The article is ambiguous, probably intentionally. It's not clear what processor was going into the original run. The idea that Apple could somehow 're-engineer' the PowerBook, put in a new motherboard and cpu, and have it tested and polished enough to go into production in two months is utterly preposterous. New motherboard + new cpu in 2 months--that's gotta be a record or something. I don't think introducing a brand spanking new line of CPUs is anything like tinkering with the cooling system, which is more likely what they did during the two month delay.

Information we received in January from two key Apple suppliers convinced us that the 15.4-inch PowerBook had gone into production at that time, but had then been held up due to similar manufacturing problems as beset the first run of 17-inch units. Since that time, we have been told that only "a very few" pre-production units of the 15-incher were actually produced, prior to the production being stopped entirely. We have heard that as few as "a few hundred" of these units were actually produced.

Next, in February, a new source told us that his company had been awarded the production contract for the new mid-size PowerBook, and that actual production would begin in "late March." This same source has more recently told us that the new 'Book had been "substantially re-engineered between January and March," and "will be based on the IBM 970 processor." --MacWhispers

 

[Rincewind42]

Re: Re: Re: Two Words: TOO HOT!

Originally posted by dongmin
Do you have links for this info?

I was curious myself so I did some digging around, and according to this article, the G4 7455 dissipates 20 w (typical) at 1.0 ghz. The 970 comes in at 19 w (typical) at 1.2 ghz, according to IBM. As far as I know the current PB uses the 7455, but maybe not.

So the 970 definitely consumes less power than the 7455 at the same frequency, but it's not as dramatic as you say. What is or, will be, dramatic is the boost in performace.

I'm curious about the power dissipation of the 970 at 1.0 ghz. If it drops to something like 15 W, maybe a dual config would even be possible.

Can't find a link, but the typical quote has been 30W@1Ghz for the 7455, but it's not that big a deal.

If you want to estimate wattage on a CPU, it's this simple: C x V^2 x M, where C is a constant that depends on the CPU, V is the core voltage, and M is the CPU speed. Since core voltage would be the same, we can just divide 19W/1.2=15.8W, so your pretty close . But there are other technical issues on developing a dual config powerbook, notably space on the motherboard for components. But assuming Apple has surmouted the technical issues, it probably wouldn't be too far fetched to see a dual 1Ghz 970 PowerBook - I know I'd be lusting for one until I could get my grubby little paws on one!

 

[Death2PCs]

Originally posted by Sun Baked
Forget it, I give up.

If you believe this fantasy, you'll believe my signature.

i agree.

 

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by dongmin
No, I read the article just fine. The article is ambiguous, probably intentionally. It's not clear what processor was going into the original run. The idea that Apple could somehow 're-engineer' the PowerBook, put in a new motherboard and cpu, and have it tested and polished enough to go into production in two months is utterly preposterous. New motherboard + new cpu in 2 months--that's gotta be a record or something. I don't think introducing a brand spanking new line of CPUs is anything like tinkering with the cooling system, which is more likely what they did during the two month delay.

There is another possibility, though. They could have already done most of the engineering on the new 970 based PB, expecting to get it into production later this year. But then, when yields from IBM came in better than expected, they suddenly had enough supply to go ahead with the 970 based PB earlier than expected. (And, just so people don't shout 'NO 970 PB BEFORE A 970 PM!', they'd probably release or announce the new 970 based PM at the same time. The article never said anything about the new PB being the only computer based on the 970...)

 

[ramiman]

No way

You guys are dreaming on for a PPC 970 in powerbooks until the beginning of 2004 at least.
I mean, the powerbooks 15 " are not alubooks yet and this upgrade has to be made before presenting the PPC 970 in the powerbooks. get real, of course i would really appreciate a PPC 970 1,2 Ghz (and even more a dual) but this isnt possible yet.

 

[mcs37]

Re: No way

Originally posted by ramiman
You guys are dreaming on for a PPC 970 in powerbooks until the beginning of 2004 at least.
I mean, the powerbooks 15 " are not alubooks yet and this upgrade has to be made before presenting the PPC 970 in the powerbooks. get real, of course i would really appreciate a PPC 970 1,2 Ghz (and even more a dual) but this isnt possible yet.

Ha, but wouldn't it be great if Apple did it anyway? Apple has a good history of doing stuff that's really cool that no one else really has done yet. I like companies that prefer to think they can do what's impossible.

 

[Macpoops]

Re: No way

Originally posted by ramiman
You guys are dreaming on for a PPC 970 in powerbooks until the beginning of 2004 at least.
I mean, the powerbooks 15 " are not alubooks yet and this upgrade has to be made before presenting the PPC 970 in the powerbooks. get real, of course i would really appreciate a PPC 970 1,2 Ghz (and even more a dual) but this isnt possible yet.

Where is it written that the new 15's have to be released in Alu and have a G4 in them. Couldn't apple just surprise the hell out of everyone and introdue the new 15inch Alu with a 970. The reason the G4 was introduced in the PB much later then the PB is it was a power hog. The thing still is in camparison to the g3 and the 970. The G4 is not the best fit for a mobile platform but there was a demand and apple answered it. The 970 is perfect for a mobile platform.

This is not the x86 world where the new Pentium comes out and then has to be modified to become a true mobile processor. Thats the benefit of a RISC architechture. The desktop model is the same as the mobile chip because the chip is already efficent enough and know modifications need to me made ala P4 and P4m. Yes i do know about the new centrino processor and i understand it is an improvement over the p4m. I am willing to bet it is a RISC based chip that emulates CISC technology.

 

[allpar]

It's a revised P3...

 

[p03]

I've got better news

I have very reliable information from sources with extremely respectable track records that suggests the following.

The 970, nay, the 980 will debut in the iBook. At 5 GHz.

Great news, huh?

But that's not all. You ask when... I can tell you: in five minutes. Please all hold your breath, and keep clicking at Apple.com. The announcement is imminent.

And that's still not all. The iBook containing that chip will be free. Yep, and immediately after the announcement, a delivery man will knock on your door, and hand you one.

(Pause...)

WHY THE HELL WOULD A NEXT-GENERATION CHIP DEBUT IN A MID-RANGE PORTABLE?!?!?! WHAT AN UNBELIEVABLE BUNCH OF MORONS IT TAKES TO BELIEVE ANY OF THIS!!!

 

[GeneR]

I wish...

I wish...


But now I'm beginning to doubt it.

 

[ramiman]

Cry baby cry....

I may be mistaken but powerbooks will not be introducing the brand new cpu PPC 970, because the 17 inch powerbook would be too ridiculised and second of all, WELCOME TO APPLE = a bit of rip off which means that apple will try to keep its G4 the longest as possible to be able to get rid of them and then finally in the beginning of 2004 u will see what uve always dreamt of, a nice PPC 970 in a wonderful powerbook 15 inch and maybe 17 inch. Iwould really be pleased to see PPC 970 in july in the apple store but it seems so impossible to me.....
I would really surprised and all our dreams would come true like in nice fairytails where everything finishes well : apple will marry IBM and will live peacefully ever after with plenty of kids blablablablabla......