I appreciate your time to respond. This BenQ, I don't believe, has either Freesynch or GSynch. PD2700u.
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A warning: Do not buy a Mac Mini unless you have a high resolution (4K+) display.
- Thread starter staypuftforums
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Yup. I have a 4k 27" (160 ppi), and I've kept with High Sierra because it's the last OS to natively implement subpixel text rendering. But I'll need to upgrade my OS soon, which means I'll need to switch to a 27" (or larger) Retina (220 ppi) external monitor.
As you said, what the OP is experiencing is not directly due to the hardware (the M1 Mini). Rather, it's likely because he was using High Sierra or earlier with his previous computer, and switching to the Mini forced him to use a newer OS, thus causing him to lose the subpixel rendering.
In addition to the Wikipedia article you posted, here's another good source. It shows that subpixel text rendering nearly triples the horizontal pixel density of a display. So, with subpixel rendering, my 160 ppi monitor stays 160 ppi vertically, but effectively becomes ~480 ppi horizontally. Now that's sharp! Indeed, the difference it makes is so substantial that, from what I've seen, the newer OS's on a 220 ppi Retina screen don't look quite as crisp as High Sierra does on my 160 ppi monitor.
I'll be heading into the Apple store soon to pick up a repair, and when I do I'll check out the 254 ppi displays on the new MBPs to see if those seem significantly sharper to me than the 220 ppi on the external displays. What I'd really like is to be able to run the 32" Dell 8k (290 ppi) at 3 X scaling. Now that would be beautifully sharp, with a nice UI size. Alas, the Mac doesn't support the Dell (or any 8k for that matter).
GRC | How Sub-Pixel Font Rendering Works
A complete and clear explanation of Microsoft's 'ClearType' Technology -- including a freeware demo application.
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Thanks for the dive into the mechanics of this. It's a really cool trick they managed to pull off.Yup. I have a 4k 27" (160 ppi), and I've kept with High Sierra because it's the last OS to natively implement subpixel text rendering. But I'll need to upgrade my OS soon, which means I'll need to switch to a 27" (or larger) Retina (220 ppi) external monitor.
As you said, what the OP is experiencing is not directly due to the hardware (the M1 Mini). Rather, it's likely because he was using High Sierra or earlier with his previous computer, and switching to the Mini forced him to use a newer OS, thus causing him to lose the subpixel rendering.
In addition to the Wikipedia article you posted, here's another good source. It shows that subpixel text rendering nearly triples the horizontal pixel density of a display. So, with subpixel rendering, my 160 ppi monitor stays 160 ppi vertically, but effectively becomes ~480 ppi horizontally. Now that's sharp! Indeed, the difference it makes is so substantial that, from what I've seen, the newer OS's on a 220 ppi Retina screen don't look quite as crisp as High Sierra does on my 160 ppi monitor.
I'll be heading into the Apple store soon to pick up a repair, and when I do I'll check out the 254 ppi displays on the new MBPs to see if those seem significantly sharper to me than the 220 ppi on the external displays. What I'd really like is to be able to run the 32" Dell 8k (290 ppi) at 3 X scaling. Now that would be beautifully sharp, with a nice UI size. Alas, the Mac doesn't support the Dell (or any 8k for that matter).
View attachment 2004038GRC | How Sub-Pixel Font Rendering Works
A complete and clear explanation of Microsoft's 'ClearType' Technology -- including a freeware demo application.www.grc.com
That said, current-gen retina displays are just incredible to look at. I worked for years designing for print on low-resolution screens, running off quick 300 dpi laser prints to see what things actually looked like. Now you can essentially proof on screen because the resolution of Retina screens matches or even exceeds what those old laser printers could do.
I have the same experience. When the first MacBook Pro Retina was launched a few years ago, I was shocked how close to the Laserjet output it could go.
Thank you for throwing me back!
been using an m1 Mac mini with an lg 1080 display since it came out.
I have 2 displays with my M1 Mac mini. A 4K 27 inch LG which looks great and a Huion 22 inch pen display at 1080p this also looks great. Of course not quite as sharp as the 4K but perfectly usable for drawing, reading text and using it as a second display for app tools, windows and other pallets.
On both I did change the monitors sharpness using their built in OSD going from 0 to 100 make a massive difference for text legibility with 0 being almost unreadable on 4k in 1080 and less so in 1440p native mode and at 70 it looks like my old 2011 iMac. The Huion was pretty good anyhow but I did turn up the sharpening up just a little whilst I was colour correcting it. It also now looks similar to my 1440p iMac.
The monitors sharpening level could make a difference to some others out there who are having issues.
On both I did change the monitors sharpness using their built in OSD going from 0 to 100 make a massive difference for text legibility with 0 being almost unreadable on 4k in 1080 and less so in 1440p native mode and at 70 it looks like my old 2011 iMac. The Huion was pretty good anyhow but I did turn up the sharpening up just a little whilst I was colour correcting it. It also now looks similar to my 1440p iMac.
The monitors sharpening level could make a difference to some others out there who are having issues.
So this thread has been stuck in my head...
I did something ridiculous to prove it to myself. Bought a 2015 21.5" Retina 4K iMac. Gutted it and converted it into a DisplayPort monitor with this handy eBay converter board. Using it now... I see it. I get it. Y'all win. It's night and day, and I can't unsee it now. Dragging a window from my 1080p 24", across my 14" MBP display, and onto this 21.5" Retina 4K... eek. How was I using dual 1080p before?! It looks laughably bad in comparison.
Time to make a second one and completely spoil myself with Retina.
Shame nobody makes a product like this.
I did something ridiculous to prove it to myself. Bought a 2015 21.5" Retina 4K iMac. Gutted it and converted it into a DisplayPort monitor with this handy eBay converter board. Using it now... I see it. I get it. Y'all win. It's night and day, and I can't unsee it now. Dragging a window from my 1080p 24", across my 14" MBP display, and onto this 21.5" Retina 4K... eek. How was I using dual 1080p before?! It looks laughably bad in comparison.
Time to make a second one and completely spoil myself with Retina.
Shame nobody makes a product like this.
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Lol, I just did something similar. I finally passed on my Dell U3011 which was only QHD and got a new 32 inch Dell UP3216Q 4K display. Yea its not "retina" PPI but it looks crisper than before. Guess I never noticed it.So this thread has been stuck in my head...
I did something ridiculous to prove it to myself. Bought a 2015 21.5" Retina 4K iMac. Gutted it and converted it into a DisplayPort monitor with this handy eBay converter board. Using it now... I see it. I get it. Y'all win. It's night and day, and I can't unsee it now. Dragging a window from my 1080p 24", across my 14" MBP display, and onto this 21.5" Retina 4K... eek. How was I using dual 1080p before?! It looks laughably bad in comparison.
Time to make a second one and completely spoil myself with Retina.
Now I don't get the whole UI scaling thing but I'll slowly figure it out.
Surely if you run it at 'looks like 2560x1440' it would be in hidpi (i.e. Retina).
Is the "looks like" just UI scaling or is it actual resolution change? I'm a bit confused by it, I just want bigger UI at 4k but dont want to downsample or whatever MacOS does.
I don't have a 4k monitor, but I thought there where settings for hidpi in the monitor settings.
If you're using an external display to extend your desktop, you can choose a preferred resolution for each display. To see additional resolutions for the external display, press and hold the Option key while selecting the Scaled button.
A display with the higher PPI is important for Chinese characters. 1080p on normal external displays makes them extremely blurry.
For Japanese/Korean too.
Once you experienced Chinese/Japanese/Korean characters on Hi-DPI monitors, you can never go back.
24 inch 1920x1080 92 ppi (non-retina)
27 inch 4K 3840x2160 163 ppi (same font size)
Truly a massive difference. I can see how Chinese, Korean and Japanese alphabets are harsh on low-res screens.
The examples are with less strokes. Try to read 憂鬱臺灣龜 (depressed Taiwanese turtle) and you will find how important a high-res display is for those languages.
Even with huge fonts, to my foreigner eye, it is mind boggling how you can remember correctly all the right drawings for each word. ?
Don't know your problem. but just because YOU say it looks terrible and nobody else seems too, indicates to me the problem is YOUR hardware specifically, not non4K hardware in general.
I have a macStudio, with ONE 4K 32" monitor, and TWO 22" non4K monitors. Does stuff on the 4k look better? sure. Does the stuff on the 22" look crappy? Not by a LONG shot.... it is crisp and very nice to read.
So, your "Absoultely Not" comment is what I find comical.
Do people not remember the battles that were fought over this for years to re-enable font smoothing by terminal? There were RCB vs CMYK issues. There were subpixel issues. It seemed to me to be a lot less effective a couple of operating systems ago and I finally just upgraded all the monitors I use for macs to 4k. Some may not see it (I don't see how) but it is a dealbreaker to me. Heck Windows 11 looks way better on 4k...I have a second gaming monitor at 1440p and it looks better on Win11 than Mac, but man even Win 11 is starting to get in the same boat.
I found that old link: https://web.archive.org/web/2013121...ix-the-picture-quality-of-an-external-monitor
This doesn't really work well anymore: https://www.howtogeek.com/358596/how-to-fix-blurry-fonts-on-macos-mojave-with-subpixel-antialiasing/
Basically, I see what the other side is saying, but y'all need your eyes checked. OP is right with this.
I found that old link: https://web.archive.org/web/2013121...ix-the-picture-quality-of-an-external-monitor
This doesn't really work well anymore: https://www.howtogeek.com/358596/how-to-fix-blurry-fonts-on-macos-mojave-with-subpixel-antialiasing/
Basically, I see what the other side is saying, but y'all need your eyes checked. OP is right with this.
This is funny. I have been using an Apple Thunderbolt Display with an "Apple Thunderbolt 3/4 to Thunderbolt 1/2 adapter" on my Mac Mioni M1 for over a year and everything including text is clear & crisp. The Thunderbolt Display is 2560x1440.
This is the monitor I am thinking about getting, whenever a M2/M2 Pro Mac mini finally drops...
27" 4K IPS with Ergo Mount...
![24-026-197-S13.jpg]()
Anyone have any experience with this and an Apple silicon Mac...?
27" 4K IPS with Ergo Mount...
Anyone have any experience with this and an Apple silicon Mac...?
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I've addressed this many, many times in the thread, but the text is not clear and crisp. You have just become used to the blurriness. That PPI is simply not adequate to display clear text, even on Windows using cleartype. Forget about MacOS.
I use a 4k monitor and have with the M1 Mini and now, a Mac Studio. Best I recall reading is that the goodness of high resolution is best achieved with 5k or a number that goes into 5k.
What I can say is that I originally had serious issues with my monitor. Sections of the screen didnt behave well and other stuff people reported on. However, things have improved for the most part other than sluggish to wake up. I am using a USBC to miniDP and a BenQ PD2700U.
What I can say is that I originally had serious issues with my monitor. Sections of the screen didnt behave well and other stuff people reported on. However, things have improved for the most part other than sluggish to wake up. I am using a USBC to miniDP and a BenQ PD2700U.
Tosh!
Considered buying a 27" Dell 4K display when I bought my M1 Mac Mini, but the 24" HP 1080P display that I already had is fine for my needs at present. Sure, pixels are obvious up close, but at my usual viewing distance, not a problem.
If I was doing more photography (as I did where I lived until 2019, some of which was used in the sports pages of the local press) I would be inclined to make the move to 27" 4K.