AMA - AirPods Max, from a normal guy who really appreciates audio quality... *gasp*

[Enygmatic]

Read a few reviews, I’m done, waste of time honestly. Evaluate for oneself honestly.

Checkmate (no issues and all boxes checked). I have oodles of headphones, I don’t care if the APM aren’t the best of the ones I own. I am thoroughly enjoying listening to music with the APM. Nuff said. Back to current star of the show!!

100% agreed... but too many of the “reviews” available are clickbait BS. Threads around here aren’t much better. Plus many stores - even Apple - don’t have them to even try on, or aren’t fully open to customers yet.

I’m enjoying mine - glad you’re doing the same.

This - again - is for anyone who may have questions about them, don’t have access to try them out for themselves, and would like some info from someone in that audio world, who uses iOS heavily AND Android... and is potentially considering them.

 

[AppleRobert]

Maybe I should rent one of those kiosks at a mall that has an Apple store. I could charge for a listening session. Lol.

 

[Enygmatic]

Maybe I should rent one of those kiosks at a mall that has an Apple store. I could charge for a listening session. Lol.

Not sure how that’d play in our COVID reality, but you’d make bank out here in San Antonio - interest has been pretty strong. I wore them in one of my speaker shops around town and they almost shut down for a Q&A session. lol

 

[LongWayHome]

All of that’s great, as long as you understand the difference between objective and subjective, fact and opinion. The only fact is that the H95 weigh less. Pretty much everything else is subjective - although the case situation is pretty much there.

The H95 are not more comfortable for me - the larger cup diameter feels better on my head. We’re two different people, so that’s fine. Saying “you can’t be right because imo it’s THIS” sounds odd... it’s subjective.
Objectively, the frequency range is nearly-identical, and the driver size is identical. The processing used by both are different - I prefer the B&O there slightly, and it depends on what I’m using them for (probably more for music than, say, movies or podcasts).

Surprisingly, there’s as much (at least) sound bleeding from the APM as there is with the others, including the M4. Bose seems to continually win here - again, for my head.

I didn’t say the controls were too complex - I use headphones with amps, knobs don’t scare me. lol I prefer the crown and button on the APM. Precision tuning, and no accidental pushes I’ve experienced.

There is something to be said for the integration within Apple’s ecosystem, as I’m comparing these as my primary “on the go” headphones. I AM less than thrilled with some of the software hiccups I’ve encountered, which become more of an issue the “smarter” you make a device or accessory.

Cans vs. Cans, I’d say I prefer the H95 for music slightly. APM is probably the more versatile of the two, as far as usage and potential with updates. To me, there’s a bigger jump from the M4 to the APM than from the APM to the H95, easily.

We can agree to disagree and yeah some things are subjective, some aren't in my opinion. For me, the H95s are in a different class than the APM, and its not even close. But I also understand if others feel different. I am also very heavily invested in Apple products but honestly can't for the life of me think of a single reason why anyone would want the Airpods Max over the H95's other than price. If price is not an issue I don't think the Airpods Max are even in the discussion. But to each their own.

 

[AppleRobert]

It would have to be a $250 difference in sound quality alone since I don’t have any other things I would need the h95 to be better over the APM currently.

The price will drop on the h95 well before the APM, the latter is a hot product on the market currently. Some folks on headfi have returned the h95. I ain’t a bean counter and have no idea of units sold and return %. Nor do I think the decision was just based on the APM they preferred more for the cost versus something else they already own.

So there you have it, the h95 ain’t an end all product for some either. And I am sure at least some of them preferred the APM more and it wasn’t just based on the cost difference.

Furthermore, I am not sure I am overwhelmed with the APM sound quality versus some cheaper ones I own. The B&W px7 and Shure Aonic are just two I really like. The Marshall and Opus Razer I own are pretty darn good too.

 

[TrueBlou]

One thing I’m very curious about, and it’s not audio quality - that’s far too subjective and I don’t expect them to be anywhere near as good as my other cans anyway.

But, audio transparency is something I have become obsessed with at the moment. Now that I’ve finished the wife’s craft room next door to my office, and she’s working from home. I have been banished downstairs because my music is too loud, even at what I call a low volume, apparently.

So, yeah I don’t want something that sounds terrible but I do want something that can let in a LOT of outside sound at high volume.

If they could let me hear someone at the door, the dog whinging and so on, while my eardrums are taking a pounding, then I’m interested.

I have AirPods Pro, which I mainly use for watching films in bed. But when the volume is cranked up the transparency isn’t exactly brilliant, I still don’t hear everything, even after adjusting the amplification in accessibility.

 

[LongWayHome]

One thing I’m very curious about, and it’s not audio quality - that’s far too subjective and I don’t expect them to be anywhere near as good as my other cans anyway.

But, audio transparency is something I have become obsessed with at the moment. Now that I’ve finished the wife’s craft room next door to my office, and she’s working from home. I have been banished downstairs because my music is too loud, even at what I call a low volume, apparently.

So, yeah I don’t want something that sounds terrible but I do want something that can let in a LOT of outside sound at high volume.

If they could let me hear someone at the door, the dog whinging and so on, while my eardrums are taking a pounding, then I’m interested.

I have AirPods Pro, which I mainly use for watching films in bed. But when the volume is cranked up the transparency isn’t exactly brilliant, I still don’t hear everything, even after adjusting the amplification in accessibility.

I'm not sure what you are looking for exists. You're honestly looking for some type of magical product that can allow you to hear with the volume cranked up. I'm not sure how you expect to hear a LOT of outside sound at high volume. If the volume is loud transparency can only do so much.

 

[Enygmatic]

One thing I’m very curious about, and it’s not audio quality - that’s far too subjective and I don’t expect them to be anywhere near as good as my other cans anyway.

But, audio transparency is something I have become obsessed with at the moment. Now that I’ve finished the wife’s craft room next door to my office, and she’s working from home. I have been banished downstairs because my music is too loud, even at what I call a low volume, apparently.

So, yeah I don’t want something that sounds terrible but I do want something that can let in a LOT of outside sound at high volume.

If they could let me hear someone at the door, the dog whinging and so on, while my eardrums are taking a pounding, then I’m interested.

I have AirPods Pro, which I mainly use for watching films in bed. But when the volume is cranked up the transparency isn’t exactly brilliant, I still don’t hear everything, even after adjusting the amplification in accessibility.

The Transparency Mode on the APM is the best I’ve ever used - definitely the best out of the equipment I tested, including APP. There’s no real drop off in volume when Transparency Mode is selected. It would probably offer the best chance at at what you’re looking for, but you’d likely (it sounds like) have to temper your expectations. There’s only so much that can be done with sound. I don’t think Transparency Mode was created for what you’re trying to do... not sure what would be, actually.

 

[TrueBlou]

I'm not sure what you are looking for exists. You're honestly looking for some type of magical product that can allow you to hear with the volume cranked up. I'm not sure how you expect to hear a LOT of outside sound at high volume. If the volume is loud transparency can only do so much.

I’m looking for something that performs better than AirPods Pro, or, in an ideal world, Sony XM4.

While it may not be a simple task, with a plentiful supply of good microphones and some decent processing. Pumping external sound into headphones isn’t an impossible task. Indeed it’s the exact opposite of what they already achieve with ANC. If something can perform really high quality ANC, it should also be technically possible to not invert those sound waves, and instead pass them into the sound mix.

I’m not expecting the equivalent of listening to speakers on my HiFi. What I am looking for is the best transparency I can find.

 

[TrueBlou]

The Transparency Mode on the APM is the best I’ve ever used - definitely the best out of the equipment I tested, including APP. There’s no real drop off in volume when Transparency Mode is selected. It would probably offer the best chance at at what you’re looking for, but you’d likely (it sounds like) have to temper your expectations. There’s only so much that can be done with sound. I don’t think Transparency Mode was created for what you’re trying to do... not sure what would be, actually.

Cheers. If they’re better than AirPods Pro, then that’s definitely the sort of step-up I’m looking for. With APP transparency whacked up in accessibility, they’re almost good enough for what I’m trying to achieve.

For instance, things like the dog whinging to go out, I probably hear 7 out of 10 times with the APP. So any improvements the APM achieve over the APP is welcome.

Not to mention I’d hope the APM provide an overall improvement in sound quality compared to the APP. Then there’s battery life, comfort (I prefer over-ear cans). The Sony’s are great headphones, but if APM can provide better transparency than those, I’ll be happy.

 

[Enygmatic]

I’m looking for something that performs better than AirPods Pro, or, in an ideal world, Sony XM4.

While it may not be a simple task, with a plentiful supply of good microphones and some decent processing. Pumping external sound into headphones isn’t an impossible task. Indeed it’s the exact opposite of what they already achieve with ANC. If something can perform really high quality ANC, it should also be technically possible to not invert those sound waves, and instead pass them into the sound mix.

I’m not expecting the equivalent of listening to speakers on my HiFi. What I am looking for is the best transparency I can find.

Best transparency mode? AirPods Max, as far as clarity and non-digitized sound. I can hear behind the music, if that makes sense, but - to be fair - I rarely find the need (or desire) to have Transparency on while the volume is maxxed out. Just seems counterproductive. I can hear my doorbell at comfortable levels still. Cannot comment on dog whimpering - I can hear my dog bark with ANC on (big boy lol)

 

[TrueBlou]

Best transparency mode? AirPods Max, as far as clarity and non-digitized sound. I can hear behind the music, if that makes sense, but - to be fair - I rarely find the need (or desire) to have Transparency on while the volume is maxxed out. Just seems counterproductive. I can hear my doorbell at comfortable levels still. Cannot comment on dog whimpering - I can hear my dog bark with ANC on (big boy lol)

Well, to be fair she probably whinges for about 5 seconds before the barking begins. But with the wife working from home and talking to customers, I want to catch that sort of thing as quick as I can.

During working hours I wouldn’t have them close to full volume, but a nice level where you can at least appreciate the music would be good.

That you can hear your doorbell at comfortable levels is encouraging. I suppose, when push comes to shove, I’ll just have to order a pair and see if I like them.

If the sound quality isn’t up to scratch, it could have the best transparency in the world and I’d still ditch them, they’ll have to sound well, close to the Sony’s would do me. I’m not paying that price just so I can hear the door better

 

[BaddAdvice]

Well, to be fair she probably whinges for about 5 seconds before the barking begins. But with the wife working from home and talking to customers, I want to catch that sort of thing as quick as I can.

During working hours I wouldn’t have them close to full volume, but a nice level where you can at least appreciate the music would be good.

That you can hear your doorbell at comfortable levels is encouraging. I suppose, when push comes to shove, I’ll just have to order a pair and see if I like them.

If the sound quality isn’t up to scratch, it could have the best transparency in the world and I’d still ditch them, they’ll have to sound well, close to the Sony’s would do me. I’m not paying that price just so I can hear the door better

I've got a similar use case (just swap out whining dog with annoying cats that scratch at my office door!) so I've been playing around with Transparency mode today. I don't hear a huge knock to sound quality and I've been able to somewhat hear my surroundings while music is playing at about 60% volume. Typing this, I can certainly hear my keystrokes and the wife just popped her head in my office a few minutes back and I could hear her. And, the scratching at my door is audible too! FWIW, I think it's a pretty decent solution.

 

[TrueBlou]

I've got a similar use case (just swap out whining dog with annoying cats that scratch at my office door!) so I've been playing around with Transparency mode today. I don't hear a huge knock to sound quality and I've been able to somewhat hear my surroundings while music is playing at about 60% volume. Typing this, I can certainly hear my keystrokes and the wife just popped her head in my office a few minutes back and I could hear her. And, the scratching at my door is audible too! FWIW, I think it's a pretty decent solution.

Thanks very much, that sounds about as close to what I'm hoping to achieve as possible.
From what you've said, I feel more confident that they will let in ample outside sound at a volume I would likely to be using during much of the day.
I'll find out in a few months, I've just stuck an order in, blimey there's a heck of a wait.
Still, one can't really complain, with the way things are just now. Gives me something to look forward to after all of the birthday/Christmas excitement.

 

[Ryanoceros]

@Enygmatic Just want to say I appreciate your comments in this thread as well as your attitude and interactions with other people (even with those who aren't being all that friendly). It makes no sense to me that you'd get negative responses or pushback from merely opening up a thread like this. Anyway, keep it up. Thanks for the great info!

 

[Enygmatic]

@Enygmatic Just want to say I appreciate your comments in this thread as well as your attitude and interactions with other people (even with those who aren't being all that friendly). It makes no sense to me that you'd get negative responses or pushback from merely opening up a thread like this. Anyway, keep it up. Thanks for the great info!

I appreciate that

 

[JasonHB]

I appreciate that

Agreed, I think that this is a great thread, very informative and helpful. I have a bunch of headphones as well, nothing like your collection, but I have Sony 1000XM3’s and XM4’s, AirPods, AirPods Pro and Klipsch McLaren Sport and a bunch of wired in-ear buds as well. I took the plunge and picked up a pair of APM’s from an Apple store just before the lockdown here in the UK.

I have to say, I love them. They sound significantly better than anything else I own, add in the build quality over the competition and then the Spatial Audio and the Apple ecosystem, and then the excellent ANC and the amazing Transparency mode and they are well worth the money to me. They are much more than the sum of all of the parts. I think they are a fabulous product, and I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend them to anyone.

Jason

 

[Enygmatic]

Agreed, I think that this is a great thread, very informative and helpful. I have a bunch of headphones as well, nothing like your collection, but I have Sony 1000XM3’s and XM4’s, AirPods, AirPods Pro and Klipsch McLaren Sport and a bunch of wired in-ear buds as well. I took the plunge and picked up a pair of APM’s from an Apple store just before the lockdown here in the UK.

I have to say, I love them. They sound significantly better than anything else I own, add in the build quality over the competition and then the Spatial Audio and the Apple ecosystem, and then the excellent ANC and the amazing Transparency mode and they are well worth the money to me. They are much more than the sum of all of the parts. I think they are a fabulous product, and I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend them to anyone.

Jason

Appreciate the feedback... I’m really liking them, aside from a few software issues and a bit of a comfort preference. I know a lot of people who may be considering these may slso be comparing them to others, so I wanted to help there if I could. Or even offer a non-douchey way to compare them to what “audiophiles” may traditionally look for in a particular headphone.

 

[jab234]

Just bought the APMs and XM4s at around same time - plan to return one of them. Playing around with them hoping to get your take on the following.

Sound quality: My APMs sound better with the "Headphone accommodations" on compared to straight out of box. Only thing is it doesn't seem that the settings carry over wired to my PC - if they did this would be a major +. However, XM4s appear to (right?) and perhaps even sound better wired than on bluetooth. I don't have the 3.5 APM cable.. wondering is APM wired sound better compared to bluetooth?

I'm also more of a bass/EDM guy and they both sound pretty close to me but APMs get a slight edge WITH accommodations on. Without accommodations I think the XM4s sound slightly better for the type of music I listen to and I'll mostly be using them wired at computer. However, classic/orchestra sound amazing on the APM (not something I listen to often but just tested it out). The APMs don't get as loud and I have to listen at 75%+ volume whereas Sony's I'm at a little over 50%.. same for you? Does this mean the APMs are somehow causing for damage to me ears in this regard.. or is the volume bar meaningless/relative and I'm comparing apples to oranges?

Comfort wise.. APMs actually feel better on my ears. But I get neck pain/strain especially when bending my neck when looking down - you feeling this at all? Sonys have some clamping force (assuming it'll go away after break-in period).

Hard decision. I'll play with them a little more. I'm willing to pay $ for a premium product. I just wouldn't want to return the APMs and keep the older and "less premium" Sonys and regret it later. They are so close but losing the accommodations feature wired and neck comfort are big factors for me.

 

[oric1sg]

So far did you noticed any condensation?

 

[JasonHB]

Just bought the APMs and XM4s at around same time - plan to return one of them. Playing around with them hoping to get your take on the following.

Sound quality: My APMs sound better with the "Headphone accommodations" on compared to straight out of box. Only thing is it doesn't seem that the settings carry over wired to my PC - if they did this would be a major +. However, XM4s appear to (right?) and perhaps even sound better wired than on bluetooth. I don't have the 3.5 APM cable.. wondering is APM wired sound better compared to bluetooth?

I'm also more of a bass/EDM guy and they both sound pretty close to me but APMs get a slight edge WITH accommodations on. Without accommodations I think the XM4s sound slightly better for the type of music I listen to and I'll mostly be using them wired at computer. However, classic/orchestra sound amazing on the APM (not something I listen to often but just tested it out). The APMs don't get as loud and I have to listen at 75%+ volume whereas Sony's I'm at a little over 50%.. same for you? Does this mean the APMs are somehow causing for damage to me ears in this regard.. or is the volume bar meaningless/relative and I'm comparing apples to oranges?

Comfort wise.. APMs actually feel better on my ears. But I get neck pain/strain especially when bending my neck when looking down - you feeling this at all? Sonys have some clamping force (assuming it'll go away after break-in period).

Hard decision. I'll play with them a little more. I'm willing to pay $ for a premium product. I just wouldn't want to return the APMs and keep the older and "less premium" Sonys and regret it later. They are so close but losing the accommodations feature wired and neck comfort are big factors for me.

Very interesting observations.
The very first thing I did was listen to my XM4’s and then compare with the APM’s.

My thoughts were the opposite of yours. I think the APM’s are significantly more detailed, bigger sound stage and much more natural sounding than the XM4’s. It was a bigger improvement than I was expecting.

I’ve tried the accommodation settings and initially thought it better, but after some serious listening, I find it artificially bright and edgy and to me, sounds better without it.

Each to their own I guess, but neither headphone is bad and I’m sure you will be happy with whichever decision you make

Jason

 

[TrueBlou]

Appreciate the feedback... I’m really liking them, aside from a few software issues and a bit of a comfort preference. I know a lot of people who may be considering these may slso be comparing them to others, so I wanted to help there if I could. Or even offer a non-douchey way to compare them to what “audiophiles” may traditionally look for in a particular headphone.

A very good attitude to have, and it’s much appreciated. As far as what ‘audiophiles’ look for, well I’ve been told I’m a bit of an audiophile, though as far as I’m concerned, I just know what I like.

I’ve yet to discover wireless headphones that can match a good pair of wired cans for my ears. It’s not an impossible task to achieve I suppose, enough bandwidth, lossless codecs and a lossless source will probably do it.

But that’s not what I go into wireless headphones looking for. I want a decent sound obviously, what’s the point in getting them otherwise. But for me, wireless headphones fill in the gaps, where wired ones are just less convenient.

I wouldn’t ever try to say my AirPods Pro, for instance, offer the best sound I’ve ever heard - they don’t, not by a long shot. But for pottering around in the garden, doing DIY and many other use cases, they’re great. No cords to get in the way, decent sound for what they are, just good old fashioned convenience and acceptable sound quality, if you go into them knowing their limitations.

I’m not the sort of annoying audio snob, who would turn their nose up at, what can be an enjoyable pair of headphones, just because they’re wireless. Or any other reason for that matter. If we’re going into this looking for actual audiophile headphones, just stop looking at Airpods Max and quadruple your budget.

If you want a pleasing wireless set of affordable* cans, then there’s a plentiful supply of Sony, Bose, B&W, Beyerdynamic and so on to fill that need. From the sounds of it, a good amount of people would include the Airpods Max in that list too, which can only be a good sign.

As much as I’ll read reviews from many different places, it’s often the opinion of end-users such as yourself who will sway my decision. I trust people who aren’t incentivised by freebies, or who *may* feel the need to be more forgiving in order to continue receiving review samples of products. When you’re throwing your own hard earned cash at something, you tend to have a different opinion on a product, after all, if you didn’t like it, you’d return it.

*Affordable being subjective obviously.

 

[Enygmatic]

Just bought the APMs and XM4s at around same time - plan to return one of them. Playing around with them hoping to get your take on the following.

Sound quality: My APMs sound better with the "Headphone accommodations" on compared to straight out of box. Only thing is it doesn't seem that the settings carry over wired to my PC - if they did this would be a major +. However, XM4s appear to (right?) and perhaps even sound better wired than on bluetooth. I don't have the 3.5 APM cable.. wondering is APM wired sound better compared to bluetooth?

I'm also more of a bass/EDM guy and they both sound pretty close to me but APMs get a slight edge WITH accommodations on. Without accommodations I think the XM4s sound slightly better for the type of music I listen to and I'll mostly be using them wired at computer. However, classic/orchestra sound amazing on the APM (not something I listen to often but just tested it out). The APMs don't get as loud and I have to listen at 75%+ volume whereas Sony's I'm at a little over 50%.. same for you? Does this mean the APMs are somehow causing for damage to me ears in this regard.. or is the volume bar meaningless/relative and I'm comparing apples to oranges?

Comfort wise.. APMs actually feel better on my ears. But I get neck pain/strain especially when bending my neck when looking down - you feeling this at all? Sonys have some clamping force (assuming it'll go away after break-in period).

Hard decision. I'll play with them a little more. I'm willing to pay $ for a premium product. I just wouldn't want to return the APMs and keep the older and "less premium" Sonys and regret it later. They are so close but losing the accommodations feature wired and neck comfort are big factors for me.

As far as the Headphone accommodations” settings carrying over to PC (I use a Mac, in this instance), they appear not to carry over those settings (I also cannot find comparable headphones settings in the Mac Accessibility menu); of course you have various other EQ options - I actually use Boom, although the speakers on the 16” are outstanding.

For bass-heavy music (again, subjective) I can see the XM4 (or XM3 or Beats) being more appealing... I think I’m actually enjoying the tighter bass of the APM. I don’t listen to EDM, but I do like hip-hop, which is traditionally bass-rich. You could try the SkullCandy Krushers (ANC) for some ridiculous bass as well... although they’re nowhere near as good all-around headphones as the XM4, imo.

The volume is quantifiably less than many other headphones I’ve tried - output testing shows typically ~10-15% less; this was likely an attempt to minimize/eliminate distortion. They get plenty loud enough for me, but they are objectively lower than some others, including the Sonys. There isn’t really a noticeable drop in battery with ANC on or off, so the outstanding noise cancellation also aids in removing the need for excessive volume as well.

I don’t have any neck pain wearing the APM, but - again - they are concretely heavier than the Sony pair, so if that’s an issue, it’s not one that will go away. The earcups on the APM are better for me - the cup’s diameter is larger, while the adaptive EQ ensures that the sound remains constant regardless of movement or adjustment. I prefer the material of the cups on the Sony (or especially the Bose); whatever they’re using at Apple is a bit scratchy, but apparently aids in cooling.

Definitely play with them both and, above anything, keep YOUR needs and situation at the forefront. No bad choices here - as long as you’re enjoying your music! I will say that I think the APM sound far and away better, EQ/Accessibility settings or no. The XM4 may be the more “versatile” headphone, though - and while the ‘same customer’ may be looking at these, Sony and Apple aren’t really aiming at the same market. At least with these headphones.

Thanks!

 

[Enygmatic]

So far did you noticed any condensation?

I have not... that is a LOT of condensation. I’m in San Antonio, currently... tested these for at least 6hr/day for that initial week, with 70 degree temps. I haven’t experienced this, although I don’t doubt it’s real. I’ve seen this with other closed-back headphones - even worse, since most of those weren’t designed to have the cups removed, so owners didn’t realize it until there were adverse effects.

Definitely something I’ll keep an eye on, though.

 

[Enygmatic]

Very interesting observations.
The very first thing I did was listen to my XM4’s and then compare with the APM’s.

My thoughts were the opposite of yours. I think the APM’s are significantly more detailed, bigger sound stage and much more natural sounding than the XM4’s. It was a bigger improvement than I was expecting.

I’ve tried the accommodation settings and initially thought it better, but after some serious listening, I find it artificially bright and edgy and to me, sounds better without it.

Each to their own I guess, but neither headphone is bad and I’m sure you will be happy with whichever decision you make

Jason

I agree with your view on the accommodation settings... and I think it’s important to understand and remember why these particular settings are under the Accommodation menu and not, say, in the Music menu/EQ.

It’s all subjective, though... so whatever sounds best to the individual. I rather enjoyed turning the “brightness” up slightly, while having the EQ on Hip-Hop, which is traditionally bass-heavy and lower in the mids. At the end of the day, however, I prefer to turn all of that off and just hear the “stock” sound profile. Apple’s EQ annoys me anyway - nowhere near granular enough for my taste, but it’s there if I’m listening to something and the standard sound is just completely off (to my ear) - I’ll typically go to “Classical” or “Rock” as they tend to slightly boost just enough for my preference.