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FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,469
1,933
iPad specs sound about right but the iPhone XR and XS only got around 5 hours screen on time when they were brand new running their release OSes which is roughly what I get now. 16 hours is a fantasy on this device and always was.

But I go to bed with 20-40% charge.

Do you really get 12 hours on an updated Air 2? Do you have a screenshot? Sounds a little (way) too good to be true, honestly.
5 hours on an iPhone Xʀ on iOS 12? I’m getting more than twice that on iOS 12 with moderate use on LTE, and more than three times that with light use on Wi-Fi. You must be a very heavy user, and if you are, iOS 17 isn’t matching that.
 

CraigJDuffy

macrumors 6502
Jul 7, 2020
420
644
Do you really get 12 hours on an updated Air 2? Do you have a screenshot? Sounds a little (way) too good to be true, honestly.
5 hours on an iPhone Xʀ on iOS 12? I’m getting more than twice that on iOS 12 with moderate use on LTE, and more than three times that with light use on Wi-Fi. You must be a very heavy user, and if you are, iOS 17 isn’t matching that.
With the iPads battery is something I just don’t think about - I charge them once a week and use them during the week and never run out but I’d have to check. iPad Air 2 is at work though so don’t have it to hand to give a screenshot - sorry.

There is no way you get 10 hours plus of screen on time. General use? Sure. I take the phone off charge at 7am and put it on charge at 11pm ish with around 20% left so that’s about 15 hours. Do you have a screenshot of this?

I’m not sure what you mean by “iOS 17 isn’t matching that” I just provided evidence the XR gets 5 hours on iOS 12.
 

FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,469
1,933
With the iPads battery is something I just don’t think about - I charge them once a week and use them during the week and never run out but I’d have to check. iPad Air 2 is at work though so don’t have it to hand to give a screenshot - sorry.
I am absolutely sure it doesn’t get to 12 hours on iPadOS 15. 100%. Just check some results of 1st and 2nd-gen iPad Pros that have been updated and even with new batteries they struggle to get more than 6 hours with moderate use (mostly web browsing at moderate brightness). My 9.7-inch iPad Pro gets 10-11 with light use and low brightness, 0% chance a fully updated Air 2 is beating that. It’s not “maybe it may get there”, it’s “there’s absolutely nothing you can do to get 12 hours, other than reading iBooks at 0% brightness... maybe”. (For the record, I tested my 9.7-inch iPad Pro on iOS 9 just reading iBooks and I got 23 hours of screen-on time. Insanely efficient. Just to add info, with light use I got 14 hours of screen-on time, if not using that app I’d never get to 23 hours).
There is no way you get 10 hours plus of screen on time. General use? Sure. I take the phone off charge at 7am and put it on charge at 11pm ish with around 20% left so that’s about 15 hours. Do you have a screenshot of this?

I’m not sure what you mean by “iOS 17 isn’t matching that” I just provided evidence the XR gets 5 hours on iOS 12.
I do have a screenshot and I’ll share it.

The website you provided indicated that the test was done at 100% brightness. No iOS device ever in existence has been able to get good numbers at 100% brightness, even on original iOS versions. I mentioned the 9.7-inch iPad Pro? Users of 1st-gen iPad Pros on iOS 9 complained that they got 4 hours whilst drawing with the Apple Pencil on iOS 9 with 100% brightness. Full brightness has killed battery life since the beginning.

I have the iPad Air 5. I get north of 20 hours of screen-on time at low brightness, yet you can pull websites with tests showing that with gaming at high brightness you can kill it in 3 hours. It has never been a mystery that it’s very easy to drain any device with 100% brightness, but I don’t think that should be the benchmark. Sure, I can play a heavy game at 100% brightness and probably drain my Xʀ on iOS 12 in... three hours? Maybe? Yet that proves nothing.

I have seen a test somewhere that showed that, but I can’t find it now. Here’s a test showing somebody killing the Air 5 in 6 hours with the same video looping test at 100% brightness: https://mynexttablet.com/apple-ipad-air-5-review/

That’s always been the case.

1D6BAA19-DE9E-47DF-8056-E3893EF24178.png

This is a screenshot that shows 5 hours of screen-on time starting at 100% and ending with 75%.
9CD54AEA-F545-4AC5-A649-EA004908EB71.png



And this is a screenshot that shows 8 hours of screen-on time starting at 75% and ending at 25%. Total screen-on time is 13 hours starting at 100% and ending at 25%. Extrapolate that correctly, and you get a total screen-on time of almost 17 hours.
 
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Oversleep1147

macrumors newbie
Dec 4, 2023
4
2
I'm still heavily using my iPhone Xs with iOS 13.6.1, and I also have a spare iPhone 13. A few years ago, I faced a similar dilemma and opted for a 'proper' upgrade. My initial approach is to avoid massive OS upgrades and keep the operating system light. However, certain apps, especially those related to banking and cybersecurity, may require the latest OS, while for work-related apps, I prefer sticking with versions that work. It's a balancing act between the pros and cons – upgrading to the latest OS means no going back (and it might not allow an upgrade to the latest iOS for your iPhone Xs anyway), but keeping the OS light may lead to potential issues with specific apps that demand the latest iOS. The choice is yours, weighing the need for app compatibility and potential performance concerns after upgrading the OS.
 

CraigJDuffy

macrumors 6502
Jul 7, 2020
420
644
I am absolutely sure it doesn’t get to 12 hours on iPadOS 15. 100%. Just check some results of 1st and 2nd-gen iPad Pros that have been updated and even with new batteries they struggle to get more than 6 hours with moderate use (mostly web browsing at moderate brightness). My 9.7-inch iPad Pro gets 10-11 with light use and low brightness, 0% chance a fully updated Air 2 is beating that. It’s not “maybe it may get there”, it’s “there’s absolutely nothing you can do to get 12 hours, other than reading iBooks at 0% brightness... maybe”. (For the record, I tested my 9.7-inch iPad Pro on iOS 9 just reading iBooks and I got 23 hours of screen-on time. Insanely efficient. Just to add info, with light use I got 14 hours of screen-on time, if not using that app I’d never get to 23 hours).

I do have a screenshot and I’ll share it.

The website you provided indicated that the test was done at 100% brightness. No iOS device ever in existence has been able to get good numbers at 100% brightness, even on original iOS versions. I mentioned the 9.7-inch iPad Pro? Users of 1st-gen iPad Pros on iOS 9 complained that they got 4 hours whilst drawing with the Apple Pencil on iOS 9 with 100% brightness. Full brightness has killed battery life since the beginning.

I have the iPad Air 5. I get north of 20 hours of screen-on time at low brightness, yet you can pull websites with tests showing that with gaming at high brightness you can kill it in 3 hours. It has never been a mystery that it’s very easy to drain any device with 100% brightness, but I don’t think that should be the benchmark. Sure, I can play a heavy game at 100% brightness and probably drain my Xʀ on iOS 12 in... three hours? Maybe? Yet that proves nothing.

I have seen a test somewhere that showed that, but I can’t find it now. Here’s a test showing somebody killing the Air 5 in 6 hours with the same video looping test at 100% brightness: https://mynexttablet.com/apple-ipad-air-5-review/

That’s always been the case.

View attachment 2320781
This is a screenshot that shows 5 hours of screen-on time starting at 100% and ending with 75%.
View attachment 2320782


And this is a screenshot that shows 8 hours of screen-on time starting at 75% and ending at 25%. Total screen-on time is 13 hours starting at 100% and ending at 25%. Extrapolate that correctly, and you get a total screen-on time of almost 17 hours.
This just upholds what I am saying - sure 8 hours SOT is excellent but also that was entirely in low power mode and based on usage of very particular apps. You need to compare it in a controlled environment for it to be reasonable to compare at all

1 Hour SOT on Reddit is very different to 1 Hour SOT on Pokémon Go.

Any controlled test shows no real difference between software versions.
 

LeoI07

macrumors member
Jul 8, 2021
54
43
Everyone here can make laugh if you want, but I'm still on 12.4 on my Iphone XS. It runs awesome and I've been afraid to update it. (WHen I ask people at apple or At&T I will hear complete opposite answers like "Don't update it now, it's going to run super super slow on the new software!", or I hear "Yes, update it, it will run quicker!"

I never liked updating because there is always a new issue. I'm a power user and am on this phone 8 hours a day for work stuff. The issue now is, some apps won't run anymore. I hate how apple basically forces you to upgrade. I wanted some opinions from the power users here. Maybe I should make a new post, but wanted to post here first.
Before you update, I'd recommend dumping SHSH blobs from the device so that you may be able to go back to iOS 12 in the future without needing to perform tethered boots using a computer (though this won't be possible for a long time). See this guide for two possible methods (unfortunately, they both require jailbreaking the device).

If you want to update, but not to iOS 17, it's possible to update to iOS 16 instead of 17, at least for now. Follow these instructions to update to 16.6.1 (this can only be done before December 16th at 7:00 PM ET). You can then update to iOS 16.7.2 the normal way.
 

FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,469
1,933
This just upholds what I am saying - sure 8 hours SOT is excellent but also that was entirely in low power mode and based on usage of very particular apps. You need to compare it in a controlled environment for it to be reasonable to compare at all

1 Hour SOT on Reddit is very different to 1 Hour SOT on Pokémon Go.
Different usage patterns have different battery life, absolutely, that’s obvious, but updates decrease battery life with the exact same usage and settings.
Any controlled test shows no real difference between software versions.
This is not true. Real-world usage is affected. Like I said, I can’t get to 14 hours on my 9.7-inch iPad Pro on iOS 12, and I’ve been trying for over 4 years. It just can’t match the battery I got on iOS 9. This is the case for every iOS device when updated far enough. We can discuss the merits of updating vs staying behind, but updates irreversibly decrease battery life and worsen performance. That’s a fact.
 

CraigJDuffy

macrumors 6502
Jul 7, 2020
420
644
Different usage patterns have different battery life, absolutely, that’s obvious, but updates decrease battery life with the exact same usage and settings.

This is not true. Real-world usage is affected. Like I said, I can’t get to 14 hours on my 9.7-inch iPad Pro on iOS 12, and I’ve been trying for over 4 years. It just can’t match the battery I got on iOS 9. This is the case for every iOS device when updated far enough. We can discuss the merits of updating vs staying behind, but updates irreversibly decrease battery life and worsen performance. That’s a fact.
This due to battery degradation over time not due to iOS 12.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,288
24,025
Gotta be in it to win it
Different usage patterns have different battery life, absolutely, that’s obvious, but updates decrease battery life with the exact same usage and settings.
You are cherrypicking applications to show maximum battery life, when in fact if you used the phone in the sun on a bad lte signal battery life will tank.
This is not true. Real-world usage is affected. Like I said, I can’t get to 14 hours on my 9.7-inch iPad Pro on iOS 12, and I’ve been trying for over 4 years. It just can’t match the battery I got on iOS 9. This is the case for every iOS device when updated far enough. We can discuss the merits of updating vs staying behind, but updates irreversibly decrease battery life and worsen performance.

That’s a fact.
No, it's a factoid masquerading as a fact. IE, battery life decreases with usage and later ios versions allow more concurrency. Better functionality is traded for battery life. That's not decreasing battery life "for nothing". Battery life just does not decrease and I posted a video showing that.
 

FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,469
1,933
This due to battery degradation over time not due to iOS 12.
Completely false. Another very repeated myth. Battery life will not decrease regardless of battery health if the device is on its original iOS version, and if the device is updated, replacing the battery will not match the original iOS version. This is another paltry myth that people who haven’t tried staying behind keep repeating.
 

1BadManVan

macrumors 68040
Dec 20, 2009
3,153
3,288
Bc Canada
Completely false. Another very repeated myth. Battery life will not decrease regardless of battery health if the device is on its original iOS version, and if the device is updated, replacing the battery will not match the original iOS version. This is another paltry myth that people who haven’t tried staying behind keep repeating.
Battery life won't be affected by battery health as long as you never update it? what kind if load of crap is that? That makes absolutely no sense
 
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1BadManVan

macrumors 68040
Dec 20, 2009
3,153
3,288
Bc Canada
Everyone here can make laugh if you want, but I'm still on 12.4 on my Iphone XS. It runs awesome and I've been afraid to update it. (WHen I ask people at apple or At&T I will hear complete opposite answers like "Don't update it now, it's going to run super super slow on the new software!", or I hear "Yes, update it, it will run quicker!"

I never liked updating because there is always a new issue. I'm a power user and am on this phone 8 hours a day for work stuff. The issue now is, some apps won't run anymore. I hate how apple basically forces you to upgrade. I wanted some opinions from the power users here. Maybe I should make a new post, but wanted to post here first.
If you're a power user as heavy as you claim and need more up to date apps, what exactly is stopping you from upgrading to something a bit newer? Not like you have to go brand new.

As far as performance goes though, iOS 17 still runs great on the A12 chip. My kids use their iPad Air 3's daily on the latest iOS and they only have 3 gb of ram and still run fantastic.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,288
24,025
Gotta be in it to win it
Completely false. Another very repeated myth. Battery life will not decrease regardless of battery health if the device is on its original iOS version, and if the device is updated, replacing the battery will not match the original iOS version. This is another paltry myth that people who haven’t tried staying behind keep repeating.
I fully agree with 32 but chips. With the a12 and later not so much.
 

FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,469
1,933
I fully agree with 32 but chips. With the a12 and later not so much.
Efficient A12 users acknowledge that there has been a significant loss when compared with iOS 12. It's significantly better than it used to be and totally usable (unlike, say, the iPhone 6s on iOS 15), but it can’t match iOS 12’s numbers. Users can totally think that the features and compatibility they get are worth the battery life loss, especially considering that the device will probably still manage a full day (unlike older iPhones), but it’s just not as good.

Users also report a perceivable performance decrease, with keyboard lag and occasional frame-rate drops. Unusable? No, absolutely not, it’s not a 32-bit iPhone, but it’s there.

I can confirm that after more than 4 years of using it, iOS 12 coupled with the A12 Bionic is probably the smoothest iOS version ever, so even if it’s not unusable, there’s a perceivable difference, difference which somebody updating straight from iOS 12 will notice.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,288
24,025
Gotta be in it to win it
Efficient A12 users acknowledge that there has been a significant loss when compared with iOS 12. It's significantly better than it used to be and totally usable (unlike, say, the iPhone 6s on iOS 15), but it can’t match iOS 12’s numbers. Users can totally think that the features and compatibility they get are worth the battery life loss, especially considering that the device will probably still manage a full day (unlike older iPhones), but it’s just not as good.
So there is only anecdotal accounts of “unaccounted battery loss”? My anecdotal observations say otherwise that there are no losses that aren’t attributable to a aging battery.
Users also report a perceivable performance decrease, with keyboard lag and occasional frame-rate drops. Unusable? No, absolutely not, it’s not a 32-bit iPhone, but it’s there.
Users also reported no perceivable decrease. I can’t absolutely say for certainty my Xs max never had a frame drop or keyboard lag in the original version of iOS. There is only anecdotal evidence no concrete proof.
I can confirm that after more than 4 years of using it, iOS 12 coupled with the A12 Bionic is probably the smoothest iOS version ever, so even if it’s not unusable, there’s a perceivable difference, difference which somebody updating straight from iOS 12 will notice.
In your anecdotal opinion of course.
 
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FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
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So there is only anecdotal accounts of “unaccounted battery loss”? My anecdotal observations say otherwise that there are no losses that aren’t attributable to a aging battery.

Users also reported no perceivable decrease. I can’t absolutely say for certainty my Xs max never had a frame drop or keyboard lag in the original version of iOS. There is only anecdotal evidence no concrete proof.

In your anecdotal opinion of course.
Post a screenshot. Mine is right there.
 

Jason B

macrumors 6502
Original poster
May 21, 2010
362
32
The funny thing is that some are saying their new iPhone 14 Pros are stuttering as well. It's a lack of optimization from Apple altogether.

Running iOS 12.3.1 on my iPhone Xʀ. iOS updates are malware, just keep it there.

By the way, I’m a little surprised about the fact that you kept it on a beta, how has it been running there? Also, you’re the third user I’ve heard of that runs iOS 12 on an A12 Bionic iPhone. You, myself, and one more user. (Recently, of course).

iOS 12 with the A12 Bionic is the smoothest SoC/iOS combo I’ve ever used, even surpassing my M1 iPad Air 5 on its original iOS version, iPadOS 15.

Didn’t you run iOS 12 on the iPhone 6 Plus? That one is not great, so I can see why you’d say that.

To repeat the saying, “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” If it still does what you need it to do, keep on trucking since it’ll probably be impossible to downgrade if you end up not liking it.

I think this depends exclusively on usage patterns. I use iPads for content consumption. My 9.7-inch iPad Pro is on iOS 12. There is absolutely nothing I can’t do because it’s outdated. Updating, for me, would only expose it to the drawbacks and none of the benefits. I do the same things on this iPad and on my iPad Air 5, which is the latest model. Yes, maybe 1 in 200 websites don’t run. Whatever, I’ll use something else, it’s not critical enough for me to irreversibly halve my battery life (4-5 hours as reported by users instead of 10-11), and severely affect performance (as reported by those who updated 1st-gen iPad Pros to iPadOS 16).

So the question is: can you circumvent compatibility issues by using something else if they are critical? If they aren’t, do you really care so as to severely and irreversibly impact the device? If the answer to the first question is no, I guess you have to go for it, but oftentimes it isn’t.

Funnily enough, I’m on OP’s situation with my iPhone Xʀ on iOS 12. There’s nothing for which I’d need iOS 17 other than the occasional website which either doesn’t load or displays a message about browser incompatibility. What do I have to gain by updating? Halving my battery life, getting some frame-rate drops and keyboard lag? iOS 17 won’t change how I use my iPhone, and I don’t care if I can’t access one website every once in a while. It’s not worth it.

Other people may install new apps all the time, so using iOS 12 on an A12 Bionic iPhone today would be untenable. But it always depends, and I do think that people in general way overestimate the impact of slightly outdated iOS versions.

Before you update, I'd recommend dumping SHSH blobs from the device so that you may be able to go back to iOS 12 in the future without needing to perform tethered boots using a computer (though this won't be possible for a long time). See this guide for two possible methods (unfortunately, they both require jailbreaking the device).

If you want to update, but not to iOS 17, it's possible to update to iOS 16 instead of 17, at least for now. Follow these instructions to update to 16.6.1 (this can only be done before December 16th at 7:00 PM ET). You can then update to iOS 16.7.2 the normal way.

If you're a power user as heavy as you claim and need more up to date apps, what exactly is stopping you from upgrading to something a bit newer? Not like you have to go brand new.

As far as performance goes though, iOS 17 still runs great on the A12 chip. My kids use their iPad Air 3's daily on the latest iOS and they only have 3 gb of ram and still run fantastic.

Efficient A12 users acknowledge that there has been a significant loss when compared with iOS 12. It's significantly better than it used to be and totally usable (unlike, say, the iPhone 6s on iOS 15), but it can’t match iOS 12’s numbers. Users can totally think that the features and compatibility they get are worth the battery life loss, especially considering that the device will probably still manage a full day (unlike older iPhones), but it’s just not as good.

Users also report a perceivable performance decrease, with keyboard lag and occasional frame-rate drops. Unusable? No, absolutely not, it’s not a 32-bit iPhone, but it’s there.

I can confirm that after more than 4 years of using it, iOS 12 coupled with the A12 Bionic is probably the smoothest iOS version ever, so even if it’s not unusable, there’s a perceivable difference, difference which somebody updating straight from iOS 12 will notice.

I appreciate all the replies!!! Yes, I'm a power user, this is my daily driver. I'm on this phone 8 hours a day easily. The phone runs great, the issue is (as many of you know) some webpages WON'T load on this phone. It blows my mind how some companies that design these webpages built them so a 3 year old firmware can't even load them.

The phone has a extended battery and has a ton of life, way more than the oem one ever had. THe reason I was on a beta to begin with was (I have tons and tons of conversations in text for work) I frequently have to go into these conversations and scroll through the meida (photos, attachments, etc) in the conversation for that particular text. At the time when ios 12 and the regular retail versions of IOS were out, this feature would hang and never load all the media correctly. I need to do this many times a day. This particular beta fixed that issue. Again, it's something I do many times a day.

I also have quite a few apps that a no longer in the app store at all. How would I know if these would work on a new phone with the latest IOS? THose are some of my concerns.
 
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FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,469
1,933
I appreciate all the replies!!! Yes, I'm a power user, this is my daily driver. I'm on this phone 8 hours a day easily. The phone runs great, the issue is (as many of you know) some webpages load on this phone. It blows my mind how some companies that design these webpages built them so a 3 year old firmware can't even load them.

The phone has a extended battery and has a ton of life, way more than the oem one ever had. THe reason I was on a beta to begin with was (I have tons and tons of conversations in text for work) I frequently have to go into these conversations and scroll through the meida (photos, attachments, etc) in the conversation for that particular text. At the time when ios 12 and the regular retail versions of IOS were out, this feature would hang and never load all the media correctly. I need to do this many times a day. This particular beta fixed that issue. Again, it's something I do many times a day.

I also have quite a few apps that a no longer in the app store at all. How would I know if these would work on a new phone with the latest IOS? THose are some of my concerns.
Can you circumvent the websites issue with another device? It’s the most annoying issue on outdated devices. Like I said, I have the iPhone Xʀ on iOS 12 too and some websites also don’t work, but I try to use something else.


I believe that if you install a backup of your iPhone on another iPhone it should install deleted apps correctly, and they should work fine.
 

Jason B

macrumors 6502
Original poster
May 21, 2010
362
32
Can you circumvent the websites issue with another device? It’s the most annoying issue on outdated devices. Like I said, I have the iPhone Xʀ on iOS 12 too and some websites also don’t work, but I try to use something else.


I believe that if you install a backup of your iPhone on another iPhone it should install deleted apps correctly, and they should work fine.

Here's the one annoying one... IF you go to UPS.com and put in a tracking # it won't give you the tracking details. IF I try it on safari or chrome on my iphone, it will not give the tracking results after you hit submit on the tracking # it just stays on the loading screen forever. It will work on my android tablet that is 5 years old though. That gets me so mad about apple.
 

FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,469
1,933
Here's the one annoying one... IF you go to UPS.com and put in a tracking # it won't give you the tracking details. IF I try it on safari or chrome on my iphone, it will not give the tracking results after you hit submit on the tracking # it just stays on the loading screen forever. It will work on my android tablet that is 5 years old though. That gets me so mad about apple.
Yeah, those issues are definitely due to iOS 12, and sadly the only way to circumvent them is to use a different device. Some apps also support older Android versions when compared to iOS, presumably due to increased fragmentation. Everybody just runs the latest version on iOS.
 
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FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,469
1,933
I will create one that is rigged. Low light next to the router etc. These battery graphs don’t have any iPhone identifying information, so I could use any old phone. They don’t have a date so they are strictly anecdotal.
The fact that you won’t post one tells me everything I need to know.
 

FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,469
1,933
The fact these battery graphs can say virtually nothing tells me everything I need to know. Anecdotal. The fact you have to extrapolate also speaks volumes.

The fact you can’t “prove” battery loss also says a lot.
Nonsense.
 
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