Locally run LLMs gobble up so much RAM... even 18GB base M3 Pro models struggle with any complexity and slow right down.
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Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
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*With the lid open
With it closed though, you can do 2
Sure hope they change that in the near future though, as I'm sure there are many that would love to be able to use the Air's built-in display while at the same time using 2 external ones
Yeah, I'm sure they still will at least for a few more generations
Leave it to Apple to do quite the comparisons with their fancy graphs and everything
One thing that has always peaved me though is that instead of just referring to computers that aren't theirs as Windows ones, they always have just said PCs
I use two external displays with my MacBook Pro, and don't use the internal display at the same time. Isn't it standard practice just to use externals, if you use a couple of externals?
I agree. At least until they're happy that most people have migrated onto Mac silicon...
Typically
Though some I know at my work use their laptop (were mostly a Windows house, though some have MacBook Pros) with the lid open and at least 2 external displays
I'm not one of those though; only time I use my internal display is if I'm mobile at work or working from home (don't have a display setup there currently)
Yeah, as I noted above, I may be an outlier, but I do use all three. I have a 24" Dell 4k, and a 5k LG external on my desk. For now, anyway, until the university demands I bring them back!
Not for me. I have always used the MBP display too, for more than a decade. The MBP provides more good screen real estate and fits below an external display. And in the old days I also cared about better cooling open, but that is n/a with the Apple chips.
Perhaps you should at the very least try following your own advice? 🤔
If you read further back, I originally gave better pricing in my previous post, and then simply pointed to his earlier source when he questioned that. Since you obviously have an alternative source, please provide it and enlighten us with where you can get this part for around the $2.90 that he figured it was probably worth. Or you can provide a source for the sample LPDDR part he originally listed, if that is easier for you. I gave actual sources because I was getting annoyed that posters were just guessing that things couldn't cost very much, so please make at least a bit of an effort and show your work.
I bothered to make the effort in another thread, and it wasn't hard to do. Google is your friend. Give it a go. What price would you estimate Apple pay for 8GB at this point? When you suggest it "isn't cheap"?
Another helpful response. I figure around $17, but feel free to actually post something instead of saying nothing useful.
When you ask "What price would you estimate Apple pay for 8GB at this point?" IMO you must also include design/engineering/installation on chip very very close to the CPU/GPU. You have read up on UMA and do understand that RAM is not some simple plug-in module like in 2010, right?
So is $17 expensive? Or cheap? I'd call that cheap. Weren't you arguing it was expensive?
Re staring with 8gb ram instead of 16.
This isn’t great for most people on MR forums, who are more sophisticated and have more demanding use cases than the average consumer. But for the average consumer with modest needs, the base model will be good enough.
Also, starting with 8gb ram allows Apple to offer an entry level MBA at a price many people can afford, who couldn’t afford a 16/512.
Re minor spec bump seeming underwhelming. Sure. Are we upset that Apple updates the MBA with newer processors every year or so, or that Apple isn’t adding enough meaningfully useful updates? I’m guessing the latter.
But remember. The M2 MBA had a brand new form factor, slightly bigger and much brighter display, much better webcam, and MagSafe charging which frees up one of the usb c ports. And the 15” M2 MBA was completely new.
So I’m fine with annual minor spec updates in between more significantly upgraded models. Many and perhaps most of us won't replace our MBA often enough that we buy two in the same redesign cycle. If you have an M2 MBA, you’re probably good until the next redesign.
This isn’t great for most people on MR forums, who are more sophisticated and have more demanding use cases than the average consumer. But for the average consumer with modest needs, the base model will be good enough.
Also, starting with 8gb ram allows Apple to offer an entry level MBA at a price many people can afford, who couldn’t afford a 16/512.
Re minor spec bump seeming underwhelming. Sure. Are we upset that Apple updates the MBA with newer processors every year or so, or that Apple isn’t adding enough meaningfully useful updates? I’m guessing the latter.
But remember. The M2 MBA had a brand new form factor, slightly bigger and much brighter display, much better webcam, and MagSafe charging which frees up one of the usb c ports. And the 15” M2 MBA was completely new.
So I’m fine with annual minor spec updates in between more significantly upgraded models. Many and perhaps most of us won't replace our MBA often enough that we buy two in the same redesign cycle. If you have an M2 MBA, you’re probably good until the next redesign.
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Thank you. Having dealt with some manufacturing, it seems to me that even the fact of having to keep different CPU SKUs because the RAM is permanently linked to the CPU would actually now make the memory a fairly high inventory risk, as each is tied to a specific CPU that they better hope sells well. While I do feel Apple charges way more than I would like, the new CPU architecture actually finally justifies some of that extra expense to me, as it seems like a fairly high business risk having the RAM and CPU coupled in the way they are (but the performance payback does seem worth it, as an end user.). Yes, Apple charge too much for upgrades, but the ridiculously low prices some keep pulling out of their butts is just driving me to actually want to defend Apple, which really sucks, as I hate their prices, too.
$17 is expensive when compared to the $2.90 price guess that I was critiquing. Maybe you should "Research a bit harder before calling other people out, maybe? 🤔"
Edit: And no, I don't recall ever having said it was expensive until this post.
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You called it "not cheap" rather than expensive, indeed. $2.90 for 8GB isn't a good guess 😅 I missed that. $17 is a fair guess, though I suspect with Apple's purchasing power it's surely a few bucks lower, but there's no way anyone can know for sure. The prices you quoted earlier were all a lot higher than the $17 you just mentioned, by the way. Unless I missed that too 😅
I found a $19.88 link I mentioned in the post immediately before the one you responded to. That was retail, so I would assume Apple gets much better pricing... though past a certain quantity, the economies of scale shrink very rapidly, but we are all guessing at this point and manufacturing involves a rejection rate that is higher than 0%. I really do not feel like defending Apple, especially on pricing, but I eventually get sick of a forum full of critiques of business which involve posters guessing that everything is almost free and that there is no cost to manufacture.
Sorry I missed that. My bad. I agree with all of this post.
Edit: My back was up after arguing with a couple of people in a thread suggesting that the RAM Apple used was somehow special and cost more like $50 for 8GB🤦♂️ Apologies for getting snarky.
The funny part of all of this is we’re all just guessing, and I regret starting the conversation because it is all just conjecture, as I said, without an inventory list, we don’t really know. I find the ram prices outrageous, especially when you go up to 32 or higher, but starting at 8 is what people are complaining about and I share that frustration. My original post was simply a thought experiment, and it went off the rails a bit. Anyway, point is, Apple charges too much for RAM upgrades and 8 GB is too little for me or anyone else I know. Maybe it’s fine for you. 🤷♀️
Great! As an ancient programmer, I will now try not to complain about how kids nowadays have it good and how we used to walk uphill both ways to work to get less than 70% of the sell price for our software! 😀
I still remember improving my first computer by doubling the RAM- I added 1MB. 😂
The funny thing is that I was looking at another post about how 8 GB is too small to do anything, and just thinking about posting my crusty old man response about kids nowadays. For context, I'm with you that it would be nice if they just moved to 16 GB, and I had quit buying new Macs after 2012 when they started limiting user upgrades and just kept upgrading my 2011 mini and MacBook Pro, which both still work fine. I finally bought a base 2018 Air refurb, which was functional, but probably no faster (likely slower) than my 2011 MBP with the 16 GB I installed. When the M1 Air came out, I was actually intrigued enough to buy new, but still just bought a base 8 GB / 256 GB SSD, as I figured that since it was non-upgradable, I would just buy bottom end and replace more often (because I'm a packrat collector and keep old computers, I don't want to call it disposable). I was surprised how useable it was. I am typing this on that machine now, and just checked and I have 20 Chrome windows open with about 24 tabs each. I've got Remote Desktop in the background controlling my mini, Mail, Messages, Activity Monitor, and Preview are open. I forgot and left Safari open with multiple windows. Basically, this thing is so much better than I expected that I have gotten sloppy and just leave crap open that I would have always just closed in the past before moving to other tasks, though I do usually close things if I am opening Final Cut or Logic, but don't when I use Handbrake. I was so impressed I ended up getting an M1 Pro MacBook, but I still just use this Air for day to day because it works so well, even with 8 GB. I admit I am probably biased because my first computer had 1KB and rendering one raytraced frame at 320x240 used to take me 24 hours on my Amiga 2000, but the base Air is freakishly capable in my personal experience.
I special ordered a 1 GB hard drive in 1995 and had to have it delivered to work as I was always there and never at home to accept it. We are both retired now, but one of my coworkers at the time still mentions it occasionally, as he was blown away by it because it was twice the size of the biggest drive he had seen and he commented at the time that he didn't know how I could have a use for that much storage.