Apple Argues iMessage Isn't Popular Enough in the EU to Be Regulated

[wegster]

Are you for real? Plenty of European innovative tech companies. Your comment seems to be typical American view - we have all and others do not have anything. That's really out of reality. Did you travel to the Europe at least once?

Some source to back-up my claim https://finance.yahoo.com/news/20-most-innovative-companies-europe-201200980.html?guccounter=1

What are the 10 most innovative European companies?

Answer: In depends massively on how you define innovation, as you can see from three online lists that all ostensibly answer this question. The World's Most Innovative Companies by Forbes uses the concept of "Innovation Premium", calculated by comparing Net Present Value of cash flows from exist...

www.quora.com

Just ask him the list of people involved in the creation of the web/www - he might have fits.
Note - I'm an American and also former military - but yeah, ignorance is kind of a problem, as are assumptions...

 

[bob24]

Europeans: Apple isn't a thing here, and iMessage is barely used. We all use Android.
Also Europeans: ApPlE mOnOpOlIsTiC bEhAvIoR

There are approximately 100 million active iPhones, 25 million active iPads, and 5 million active Macs with App Store accounts in the EU: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1385885/apple-products-services-users-eu/

Most of those devices would have iMessage enabled by default (i.e. they are all running iMessage unless the user actively chose not to enable it).

To escape the regulation, Apple needs to make a case that there are less than 45 million “monthly active users”.

So it will boil down to a discussion whereby Apple is asked to demonstrate that at least 2/3 of their European Union customers aren’t “monthly active users” of iMessage. And it will likely revolve around the definition of what an active user is (for exemple, if having the iMessage service enabled on a device which is regularity pinging Apple’s servers counts as being an active user, IMO there is no way they could escape the regulation; but if the definition is that you need to send or receive at least one iMessage during the month, they’d probably be borderline).

 

[Sorinut]

No one over 30 uses snapchat and no one over 40 uses Facebook Messenger.

I'm 43 and use both. Snap is pretty popular at the hospital I work at (in the US), across all ages. Messenger even more so.

The gal is a lawyer (also in her 40s) and uses Facebook messenger CONSTANTLY for professional and personal messaging. Clients like using it to keep in touch.

 

[centauratlas]

WhatsApp wasn't created by Facebook/Meta, just bought by them to limit the competition (and do yet more data collection) as usual. Previously there weren't ads, among other things.

Exactly, more data collection and not end to end, on-device encryption for backups, a ton of meta-data is available in WhatsApp (including for law enforcement, FB, Meta) etc. See Ars for other issues etc.

The EU loves WhatsApp because they want to surveil their populations. FB/Meta is more than willing to collect and share data without much pushback as compared with Apple. The US DoJ/FBI/CIA etc like it too due to the meta data available and the ease with which it is shared.

Is iMessage perfect? No, of course not. But WhatsApp is worse.

See, e.g. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/202...rypted-messages-arent-that-private-after-all/

 

[contacos]

You didn't need to preface your reply with such a caveat, because you point makes it obvious. You understand what "strong arm" means, the EUSSR is a strong-arm political bloc, and it's a festering croc at this point and they'll be used to "legally" break into the Apple eco-system (if CCP hasn't already been successful), not the US.

Patriot Acts for Tech.

Europeans did't need patriots Acts, becasue it's only the US people's who are fundamentally too free.

That needed to be fixed. This is more of that fixing. It will never end.

I’d love to get into this more but unfortunately this article wasn’t labeled political so I can’t without risking a strike 🤐

 

[nicolas_s]

There is talent in Europe, but the first thing they do when they graduate is move to the US and go innovate there.

 

[contacos]

Exactly, more data collection and not end to end, on-device encryption for backups, a ton of meta-data is available in WhatsApp (including for law enforcement, FB, Meta) etc. See Ars for other issues etc.

The EU loves WhatsApp because they want to surveil their populations. FB/Meta is more than willing to collect and share data without much pushback as compared with Apple. The US DoJ/FBI/CIA etc like it too due to the meta data available and the ease with which it is shared.

Is iMessage perfect? No, of course not. But WhatsApp is worse.

See, e.g. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/202...rypted-messages-arent-that-private-after-all/

WhatsApp backup was end to end encrypted before iCloud Messages was

 

[Sorinut]

WhatsApp backup was end to end encrypted before iCloud Messages was

True, but iMessage was encrypted from the beginning, before iCloud messages was even a thing.

I'm just happy that encryption is available to everyone, regardless of what service they use.

 

[laptech]

I bet there are past articles from Apple saying how popular imessage is and that more people should adopt it over it's rivals but now to prevent imessage from having to work with rivals Apple are saying imessage actually is not popular and therefore should not be touched by the EU.

Apple are very happy to postulate how good and popular an iphone feature is but when regulators come calling, suddenly Apple downplays how popular the iphone feature actually is.

 

[3530025]

It's always good to push for more innovative companies and competition though.

 

[3530025]

That's sales/shipments for one particular quarter but overall usage is a bit higher. According to Statcounter, the mobile OS share of iOS in Europe is currently around 34% (as high as 38% in the past 12 months) compared to around 66% for Android. By comparison, in the U.S. it's around 57% iOS to around 43% Android. Duopolies in both countries/regions.

Do you have source for these numbers please?

 

[soyazul]

I would really like to use iMessage, but no one uses it here in Argentina. WhatsApp rules over here.
I don't understand why, It's a horrible platform.
Even my whole family has iPhones, and the most I could get is the family group on Telegram (Much better than WhatsApp)

 

[mrochester]

Most people look at me like I'm an idiot when I say they can just message me through iMessage instead of WhatsApp. I'm in the UK by the way.

It's got to the point I give up and just installed WhatsApp. I hate Meta but it's less hassle. I like iMessage but now I've been using WhatsApp I can see why it's prefered. WhatsApp is by far the better communication platform.

And therein lies another lock-in.

 

[doolar]

That's true. WhatsApp all the way over here.

Many US readers don't understand how small share iPhone (and Apple products in general) has in the Europe compared to the US. Wast majority owns Android over here.

Not true, at least not that generally. In Sweden where I live, over 50% of all smartphones are iPhones.

Over 25% in the entire Europe are iPhones, and that’s including some really poor countries where Android still is strong because the majority can’t afford an iPhone, not even on contract. Germany also enjoys some self harm with a good majority of Android users still for some reason. 😊

Is 70%+ a “vast majority”? I guess… But you make it sound like iPhones are a rare thing, which they are not.

I agree on WhatsApp though, it’s everywhere. A benefit for someone like me who’s not on WhatsApp, I easily duck many unnecessary chat groups just by not using Meta products. “Sorry I don’t have WhatsApp, but you have my email, right?” I of course miss some good ones too, but I never noticed 😂

 

[fatTribble]

What has it got to do with the UK Government? This is the EU, not the UK.

You’re right. I saw FT and thought UK. My bad!

 

[Wildkraut]

Yes and it's only 25% of whole smart phone segment.

Digital Service Act and Digital Markets Act don’t care for percentage.

 

[klasma]

I thought a gatekeeper is defined by its overall company wide stats and not individually by each service? That’s kind of ridiculous and almost impossible to control?

Also, isn’t iMessage enabled by default? So every iPhone user in the EU is technically an iMessage user, even if they don’t use it

Is it even possible to send an SMS from iPhone to iPhone without using iMessage? If so, that would constitute basic telephony infrastructure.

 

[Wildkraut]

No it does not, that’s the theoretical upper limit. I have an iPhone and never use iMessage, nor do I know anyone with an iPhone that uses iMessage.

For me, SMS is something for automated things, like 2nd factor authentication, deliveries from the post office, stuff like that. I get perhaps 1-2 SMSes from humans a year, and those aren’t iMessages but just regular SMS.

Otherwise, Signal and WhatsApp all the way.

Doesn’t matter, I bet when you set up your iPhone it activated iMessage, so you count in, it’s ready to be used.

 

[Cromulent]

Do they get hacked as often as Facebook accounts? If not what keeps them more secure and why doesn’t Meta apply that to the Facebook app?

If you set your account up properly with 2FA and a strong password you won't get hacked. I've been on Facebook for 13 years or so and have never been hacked.

This is why owning a Yubikey is so important.

 

[nicolas_s]

It's always good to push for more innovative companies and competition though.

Yesterday there was a debate about the 25 years of Google on a French business TV channel and they were complaining about that.

I can provide a link if you understand French.

 

[Jay Tee]

Should iMessage and similar messaging standards be open and cross-platform? Would it be beneficial for customers? Yes!

I see your point, but what about private property ?

 

[mrochester]

Is it even possible to send an SMS from iPhone to iPhone without using iMessage? If so, that would constitute basic telephony infrastructure.

Yes you can turn off iMessage.

 

[3530025]

I see your point, but what about private property ?

Private property? Standardization is nothing wrong and always was there. Regulations were always there too.

Check automotive industry. Plenty of regulations from left and right in the Europe as well as in the US.

 

[unrigestered]

i'm also one of those weirdos who is only using iMessage, while 99% of the people around me are using Whatsapp.

i personally think that cross-platform messaging could be a great win for everyone, when executed via an isolating translation layer that will not in any way harm anyone's privacy and security features that (s)he's used to on his own service of preference.

but i'm sure there will be some very strong interests by quite a few companies and governments in charge that will make sure that such a feature will not happen with the respect for privacy in mind.

 

[bob24]

Is iMessage perfect? No, of course not. But WhatsApp is worse.

Apple’s insistence to lock it down to their own devices makes it a limited communication platform by design though (unless one is willing to accept a complete Apple monopoly on smartphones, but I doubt many people are, and rightly so).

So while I agree it is better from a technical point of view, the fact that its network reach is limited to Apple customers makes it hard for me to call iMessage a better communication platform than other ones which have multi-platform support.

Think about it that way: if you can’t reach 2/3 of your contacts with iMessage (which is true for most Europeans), its theoretical technical superiority is irrelevant as you are going to need to install a competing App AS WELL, and thus you will actually cumulate the drawbacks of both platforms.