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Apple Argues iMessage Isn't Popular Enough in the EU to Be Regulated
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If Apple wants to escape, they have to prove the numbers, and for DMA all that matters are the numbers. Just in 2022 they sold 56 million iPhones in the EU, sum
up the last 3 years and they are easily over it. Specially with iMessage being activated by default on iPhone,macOS,iPadOS setup. These device platforms don’t count separately. Alone with business users they are surely over it, almost all devs have iMessage activated and they count as business users. Simply as that!
- The control of an important gateway for business users towards final consumers: when the company provides a core platform service to more than 45 million monthly active end users established or located in the EU and to more than 10,000 yearly active business users established in the EU;
They did according to my understanding of tech companies. We already clarified this didn't we?
We had different understanding of the definition of tech companies. You were not happy with mine and so I provided updated list which matches your definition. Is there problem with this? Why argue over this?
If you actually read the text is "monthly active end users". Having iMessage installed and activated isn't enough, Apple has only to prove they have fewer than 45 million active users, which I guess applies to them, otherwise they wouldn't argue it.
Like I said, they cannot possibly count me as an active iMessage user, even if I have an iPhone/iPad/Macbook with iMessage on them.
The DMA doesn't specify that "active" needs to mean you sending messages, it can simply mean you being signed into the service. There's probably good reasons to not approach it this way, but it's not as clear cut as you make it appear.
Yes, it does. It provides a specific definition for different core platform services. Scroll all the way to the bottom.
Regulation - 2022/1925 - EN - EUR-Lex
"Number of unique end users who initiated or participated in any way in a communication through the number-independent interpersonal communication service at least once in the month."
None of that is true.
Yes, it does. It provides a specific definition for different core platform services. Scroll all the way to the bottom.
Regulation - 2022/1925 - EN - EUR-Lex
eur-lex.europa.eu
"Number of unique end users who initiated or participated in any way in a communication through the number-independent interpersonal communication service at least once in the month."
None of that is true.
You are right, my bad!
Well they try to clarify it in the Annex, and if you read A.1 you'll see that businesses self-report the number of active users, while A.3, talking about unique users, says "[...]no matter how many times they engaged with the relevant core platform service over that period".
If they use the word "engaged" it's hard to make a case for your interpretation. Merely having it activated is not "engaged". One would need to engage with iMessage, i.e. send at least one iMessage-message during the last month to be counted as an active user.
I checked my iPhone and I never sent an iMessage, and the last time I received an iMessage was Apr 21st 2022. I don't think any reasonable interpretation using the DMA text would count me as an active user.
LOL! I can start by naming 2 companies without which the iPhone would never have happened:
Nokia and Ericsson
We’ll know how the EC interprets this when they publish their list tomorrow.
But I guess if they wanted to they could say that as long as you open the Message app on your phone and iMessage is enabled you are technically engaging with iMessage (because this App is the client application for iMessage and presumably connects to an iMessage server when you start it).
I agree it would be quite a stretch, but it would put Apple in a tricky situation: either the refuse to comply and engage in a legal battle (with no guarantee of winning and knowing that even if they win, the only way for them to remain out of scope is for iMessage to remain a failure in Europe which is an ackward situation); or they just go for the easy route and they don’t dispute the interpretation.
Based on "Number of unique end users who initiated or participated in any way in a communication through the number-independent interpersonal communication service at least once in the month.", I'd say that simply opening the app won't do it. Plus, I don't think Apple tracks that and I doubt the EU would make them track the simple opening of the Messages app.
What Apple can track, since it actually goes through their servers, is you sending or receiving an iMessage, and this is what they'll report. Remember that it's self-computing and self-reporting.
Even if they get included, they can come back and show they have fewer users than the threshold.
And how exactly are they currently competitive? Nokia doesn't even exist, what is called Nokia now are just remnants after Microsoft purchased them. Ericsson hasn't done anything on its own in almost 20 years.
From the UK also and would say the complete opposite. Hate Whatsapp, hate everything about it. Have no reason for it since everyone I know is on iMessage and prefers it. There have been a small few who weren’t but it’s a great excuse not to speak to them.
The problem is that way too much of it is directly tied to or funnels into U.S. (or Asian) companies and products instead of creating new/separate competition.
Yes, the US is the world’s tech nexus and I think it will remain so for the foreseeable future.
It doesn’t matter if some European business innovates or does something cool, it usually gets bought out immediately by an US company since they have the money.
And then the major US tech businesses hoover most of the IT talent in Europe anyway, with huge wages, since they have the money.
It’s hard to create new competition when your emerging businesses and people are immediately bought out.
Please do not read my reply as a value judgement. Personally, it makes little difference to me if it’s US or Europe. It would make a difference if it were China, Russia, UAE etc.
You can use an iPhone without an AppleID. You can use an iPhone without signing in to iMessage. You can be signed in to iMessage but never actually use it. You can use it for a while then stop using it.
The list also goes way, way down when you cut the UK out and just talk EU.
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I think you just answered your question. They want people to use it, but if disclosing the active monthly users in the EU gets them out of messy compliance with a stupid law, they'll take it.
WhatsApp and others are having to spend a lot of energy to figure out how to comply, and Apple will just read their notes once they get close to needing to be regulated (or if the implementations wind up being something the market actually wants)
Personally, I would take the fine… and raise the price of iPhone to offset it in the EU.
Third-party apps are “gatekeepers” in the EU.
This seems plausible.
Based on prior reporting of about 100 million MAU for the iOS App Store in the EU, combined with the fact that most iPhone users in the EU have never received or sent an iMessage, much less used it regularly enough for it them to be counted as monthly active users, its very plausible that there are less than 45 million EU iMessage users.
I'd be surprised if even close to 10% of the iPhone users use iMessage regularly. Most EU users only use the Messages app as a 2FA code receptacle and almost exclusively use WhatsApp or Telegram.
As for the usual pissing contest with the EU and heralding of doom for the EU by Americans: the EU is doing vastly better than the US in almost every metric.
The only metric where the US comes out on top is the amount of perversely rich people and companies, but to the average EU citizen that's a symptom of a disease, you might as well brag about your buboes and how much higher your body temperate is compared to someone who isn't affected by the bubonic plague.
Based on prior reporting of about 100 million MAU for the iOS App Store in the EU, combined with the fact that most iPhone users in the EU have never received or sent an iMessage, much less used it regularly enough for it them to be counted as monthly active users, its very plausible that there are less than 45 million EU iMessage users.
I'd be surprised if even close to 10% of the iPhone users use iMessage regularly. Most EU users only use the Messages app as a 2FA code receptacle and almost exclusively use WhatsApp or Telegram.
As for the usual pissing contest with the EU and heralding of doom for the EU by Americans: the EU is doing vastly better than the US in almost every metric.
The only metric where the US comes out on top is the amount of perversely rich people and companies, but to the average EU citizen that's a symptom of a disease, you might as well brag about your buboes and how much higher your body temperate is compared to someone who isn't affected by the bubonic plague.
Messages are too important. and personal.... I trust apple to keep them private, not What's App.
That's like saying alternative news..... Tech companies are tech companies. No more comments needed.