Apple Blogger John Gruber Hints at NFC For iPhone 6 [Update: iWatch Too]

[H2SO4]

I'm surprised that people still haven't realized that hardware is not as important as software. NFC is a dud until someone figures out how to make it useful. If Apple figures it out, than they win.

Just like retina, retina is NOT resolution, it's software DPI scaling support and resolution. you have one without the other? it's practically not the same thing!

Great, except take away all the hardware and how good is your software?

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Had a thought...

"iPay: 1% cash back for all your purchases, in iTunes credits!"

1% "cash back" money to spend on iTunes would probably motivate the younger generation to flip out their phones to pay rather than their debit cards.

Please send that as an ‘enhancement' on the Apple feedback pages. I would find a waay of paying for everything using my phone if that happened.

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1 step closer to not needing keys or a wallet! iPhone can unlock my door to my car and house. It's a beautiful world, and pocket real estate is at a premium!

That’s a looonnnggg way off. There are so many things that are kept in purses and wallets that you won’t get on your mobile. For quite some time.

 

[Macyourdayy]

I can only imagine how this becomes an advertisement gold mine. Imagine how much you can allow advertisers to target specific groups with specific ads. You have a major portion of their day to day purchases recorded. Lets see if Apple can (appropriately) leverage this and allow for tastefully done ads to be integrated in new ways into the typical daily workflow...

Uhh, are you thinking of google or amazon? Remember the whining from the mags and newspapers about not receiving user data from apple??

 

[H2SO4]

All you're saying is that Apple has great timing. Large phones might be inevitable but they are not selling that well right now compared to smaller phones. Apple will accelerate that process greatly but if you prefer to look at it like they waited for just the right moment to get into that size market, then have fun. We all know the large phone category will blow up like never before after September 9th. Same thing with NFC and payments. We don't call it caving in. We call it good timing followed by good execution.

?

 

[BvizioN]

would be about time, talk about being behind the curve. not sure when they will discover the microSD card at this pace.

MicroSD, removable battery, flash and USB.... you can forget about it.

 

[Andrei90]

I think it's prerty obvious the iWatch will have NFC. Now you won't have to pull out your phone from your pocket, just use your watch and that's it. It just works.

 

[Karma*Police]

Come on now...every major selling phone is larger than the iPhone.... Timing has nothing to do with any of this..
You can try to spin that anyway you like...Apple has said on more than one occasion that NFC and larger phones were something that they weren't interested in..the reason you with see both of those things in September is not because they some how timed it right, its because NFC will be the defacto standard a year from now with or without apple and the larger phones simply because they have caved to public opinion and would like those dollars..

You may be right, but Apple says lots of things to throw off the competition. If you look Apple's iPhone business, it's still growing while Samsung's is shrinking. I chalk that up to Apple's methodical approach to product development and superior business strategy; and timing and execution are a big part of that.. Retina on 4/S, 4" on 5/S/C, 4.7" and 5.5" on 6, and let's not forget their brilliant carrier hopping strategy... all perfectly planned and timed to keep iPhone sales growing steadily QoQ and YoY.

And considering the number of patents and key hires related to NFC, I think it's reasonable to assume that they said they had no interest in NFC as a misdirection tactic while they worked on perfecting their mobile payment system. It's also likely that they waited this long for the other pieces to fall into place. Tim Cook has said that mobile payments was one of the thoughts behind Touch ID. If iPhone 6 has NFC and Touch ID is a big part of their mobile payment system, I think that's pretty conclusive evidence to support that Apple planned/timed their mobile payment system... And one year before the new payment terminals will be required? Brilliant.

 

[swingerofbirch]

Is it possible

Is it possible that the iPhone 5S has NFC?

Apple in the past would sometimes include un-utilized hardware features and later enable them with software. When the iPhone 5S came out it was marketed by Apple as somewhat future-proof "The Most Forward-Thinking Smartphone in the World."

Part of it may have just been defensive marketing against Samsung (they went out of their way to counter the "next big thing" marketing with "It’s not just what’s next. But what should be next.").

Maybe I shouldn't have fallen for the marketing, but I think that they more than intimated that Touch ID and the A7 processor would be more useful in the future than what they could show when the iPhone 5S was introduced. They went out of their way to talk about how it was a desktop-class processor without providing a benefit. And they included Touch ID with only two benefits--unlocking phones and buying apps. I feel like they were saying that all of this would add up to something more in the future.

Whether that's true or not, I feel that was a marketing strategy. We'll see if the iPhone 5S gets left behind when it comes to mobile payments. If it does, I think that would be a let-down on implications that they've made.

 

[DCIFRTHS]

The way it works on my GS5 for payments is this:

• NFC must be on
• You must have authenticated with the Google Wallet within 24 hours (it's a PIN)
• Your phone must be on and unlocked.

So if someone stole your phone, they would have to use your PIN, fingerprint, or swipe image to unlock it, and get your Google Wallet PIN.

It's actually quite easy as Google Wallet also has my loyalty cards so I just open it, have the clerk scan the card and hold my phone at the NFC reader. It rocks!

What do you do when the clerk wants to physically take your phone, and scan it?

I have had this happen many times, and it really bugs me. Regal theatres wants to hold your phone to scan it when you buy tickets, and also at the concession stand. I now only use the physical "plastic credit card" Regal issues because I am concerned that the clerk will drop my phone, BUT worse than that, the concession attendants hands are usually wet with soda or butter flavoring. I can just see my phone falling to the ground behind the concession stand...

Dunkin' Donuts has the right idea: They have a sign, behind the counter, telling the worker to bring the scanner to the phone, and to NEVER hold the customer's phone.

 

[MattInOz]

Passbook was a great idea that was poorly executed, IMO. I wouldn't be surprised if they dropped the app at some point.

I think the problem with Passbook was it was part of a larger solution and while it was a standalone system it was not a compelling part in it's own right to drive adoption.

Passbook expanded by NFC looks more compelling with more ways to use passes and more pass types.

NFC expanded by Passbook looks more compelling as well giving your service provider a more casual means to send you updates. I mean NFC is short range that your phone might be in and out of range in under a second. With passbook your credit company could send you an updated balance after the transaction and wouldn't be at all reliant on the vendors connection.

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I'm definitely not an e-payments expert but I don't believe the EMV requires a store to implement NFC phone pay. If there aren't A LOT (like 800 million iTunes credit cards) of users interested... most won't.

Doesn't matter if they do or they don't if Apple Implements EMV emulation mode in their NFC system.

 

[Wheeler.Jeff]

Gruber: Follow-up joke: It would be cool, and would make a lot of sense, if the new wearable thing had the same magic payment apparatus. http://daringfireball.net/linked/2014/08/28/september

Apparently there are a crap ton of sensors in this wearable thingy- thinking it has to incorporate the band and not just a typical watch face w/ dumb bands. Calling iWear instead of iWatch

 

[robogobo]

When did he lose the "journalist" title.

Oh please. He's no journalist. He has a blog, wherein he comments on other writers' articles, occasionally writing a piece of his own which gets published nowhere other than his blog. And he shamelessly promotes his products and those of his buddies on said blog. A journalist doesn't do that. A blogger does that.

 

[Swordylove]

NFC = good.
No more ≤ 4.5" size = not good.

 

[Nevaborn]

Way to shamelessly promote a single blogger Macrumors >.>

Many of us have already gone by the sources and have said following a last minute change that NFC is a done deal. He does over simplify the process which the credit information will be stored though.

I am expecting Apple to introduce a verification process with Touch ID, as a secure way to access not only the card information but to stop accidental usage. The secure conclave is all well and good on what will be the new A8 but unlike touch ID which so far only allows payment with Itunes on a pre registered payment method, now this will need to access and tranfer the information itself. Not just a allow/deny.

This keynote will be very interesting possibly if they do mention their payment strategy. This is where I am led to believe Apple is still looking at this as a way to improve their retail standing.

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I think the problem with Passbook was it was part of a larger solution and while it was a standalone system it was not a compelling part in it's own right to drive adoption.

Passbook expanded by NFC looks more compelling with more ways to use passes and more pass types.

NFC expanded by Passbook looks more compelling as well giving your service provider a more casual means to send you updates. I mean NFC is short range that your phone might be in and out of range in under a second. With passbook your credit company could send you an updated balance after the transaction and wouldn't be at all reliant on the vendors connection.

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Doesn't matter if they do or they don't if Apple Implements EMV emulation mode in their NFC system.

Passbook is a good idea but the problem is to work you need companies on board. This is where things tend to go sideways as you end up with lots of companies, lots of countries, lots of operating procedures and suddenly a ticket on a screen becomes a lot of work.

Apple is ambitious but doesn't twnd to put the backing to see these things through. I.E Maps and Siri which have very amall teams on very tight deadlines.

 

[roadbloc]

Long overdue to actually be a relevent feature - hopefully this would help it take off.

Already taken off where I'm at. Most phones come with it. I use it to pay cash often. Using it is easy. Apple (and the US) appear to be last to adopt it.

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Nah, the technology just wasn't that practical when it was first implemented in smartphones.

Its been pratical for years as far as I'm concerned.

 

[kimvette]

Let's translate, shall we?

While Apple has previously viewed NFC as "not the solution to any current problem,"​

By which they really mean:

"Please don't buy their phone until we can copy theirs and then figure out a way to prove in court that we invented it and therefore their designs infringe upon our copies."​

 

[sinfonye]

Second, one of the downsides of EMV is the length of time entering the pin takes. This could cause lines, contact less speeds things up. This is why they will take the contact less support that comes free anyway.

We use chip-and-pin all the time in the UK. It's pretty fast: my card goes in the reader, I enter my PIN, I take my card. It's definitely quicker than signing in most cases (no need to fumble for a pen as well as the card). Contactless is only a bit faster, if at all (a percentage of transactions need to be verified, which is slow, and there is a low transaction limit [about $30 here], above which a normal transaction needs to be used anyway). There have also been problems with multiple charging where customers have more than one NFC card in their wallet. I think it's more about convenience than speed (also not needing to remove the card from the wallet, which may reduce accidental loss).
Overall, it's not very exciting in its current card-based incarnation!

 

[lk400]

Can't remember the last time I ran out of battery. Of course I always have a charger around somewhere.

Me neither, I'm not one of the battery obsessed on MR. But with it replacing your wallet and keys home - the stakes are pretty high!

 

[proline]

Exactly. It could be used for pairing the devices, but not as a transport.

It can't really be for pairing devices either- who want's to have to nearly touch their devices together to get them to see each other? Apple made fun of Samsung for that silliness, and for good reason.

 

[rols]

And he shamelessly promotes his products and those of his buddies on said blog. A journalist doesn't do that. A blogger does that.

That is one of the things I find annoying about Gruber's blog, even though I do read it every day because it's quite a good distiller of articles I'd not find otherwise. I guess if I had a site as widely read as his and an app in the appstore, as he does, I'd use the former to advertise the latter, but it does annoy me every time he does it.

I read Jim Dalrymple too, LoopInsight is a bit more random than DaringFireball and Jim bangs on about Canada and guitars instead of advertising his own app (I don't think he has one by the way).

Between the two of them with 10 minutes a day of scanning you can pick up some good stuff.

 

[panther quest]

I can only imagine how this becomes an advertisement gold mine. Imagine how much you can allow advertisers to target specific groups with specific ads. You have a major portion of their day to day purchases recorded. Lets see if Apple can (appropriately) leverage this and allow for tastefully done ads to be integrated in new ways into the typical daily workflow...

**** that noise.

 

[wigby]

?

If you're not looking for a detailed discussion about Apple then you're in the wrong forum. The kid's table is in the other room.

 

[rdlink]

Do your home work dude...Its being forced on the merchants which is why apple had no choice but to include it. Android users aside.

Do your homework, "Dude." What's being "forced" on merchants is smart chip credit cards, which are NOT NFC. It's a more secure technology that's been in use in 80 other countries for years, and the US is finally starting to move to it.

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Are you sure about that? Because Asia and Europe are WAY AHEAD of the USA ( and that includes Apple ) in the NFC tech for years. Apple was afraid to add in NFC not because of the market but due to industry standards and government being slow to adopt it, and that it wasn't " mature " enough. So if they add in NFC, then passbook must be phased out or updated.

But android manufacturers weren't afraid to add it in early on. After all, if the user took the android phone overseas, who knows they could have been able to use NFC fully? NFC is out there but Apple is not going to be the one to mainstream it.

It takes an entire movement to make that happen, not on Cook's terms.

Hide and watch...

 

[V.K.]

Macrumors, this is embarassing...

For crying out loud Macrumors, how can you step into the same pile of dung twice?! It was completely obvious the last time that Gruber was simply speculating and it's completely obvious that he is simply speculating now too.
Iphone 6 may very well have NFC but Grubers post is in no way a leak or is pretending to be one.

When he does leak something he is a lot more straightforward about it like here for example.

 

[zipa]

It can't really be for pairing devices either- who want's to have to nearly touch their devices together to get them to see each other? Apple made fun of Samsung for that silliness, and for good reason.

It works superbly for pairing devices. Of course you can do the old pin exchange as well if that's what you prefer, but I have yet to meet anyone who wouldn't think that NFC is a lot smoother.

 

[coolspot18]

Is it possible that the iPhone 5S has NFC?

Whether that's true or not, I feel that was a marketing strategy. We'll see if the iPhone 5S gets left behind when it comes to mobile payments. If it does, I think that would be a let-down on implications that they've made.

Sorry, but you've been left behind - NFC require specialized hardware and the tear downs have not shown that to be the case.