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NMBob

macrumors 68000
Sep 18, 2007
1,921
2,491
New Mexico
Why are all of the lights on in that picture of the spaceship? Nobody's coming into the office, especially at night.
 

magicman32

macrumors 6502
Dec 25, 2007
409
738
You can blame Unions for driving manufacturing outside of the US
If you mean declining Union power and membership being the reason then, yes, its true. But if you mean the opposite then, yeah, no, you aren't even close.
 
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rlhamil

macrumors regular
Feb 6, 2010
248
190
If China eventually invade Taiwan and the west is dumb enough to impose sanctions then Apple could be crippled overnight. Diversifying production partners is a smart move by Cook but they better hurry up ?
If China invades Taiwan, we'd better hope that TSMC (Taiwan Semiconductor) has got some of their chip factories outside of Taiwan up and running and able to produce the latest goodies.

It's would be very good to move 50% or more of final assembly to at least two or three countries that likely won't all be on the same side in some conflict; but that needs to be done for the entire the supply chain, too.
 
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rlhamil

macrumors regular
Feb 6, 2010
248
190
If you mean declining Union power and membership being the reason then, yes, its true. But if you mean the opposite then, yeah, no, you aren't even close.

No, I think the previous poster meant what he said. Unions drive up costs by demanding ever more wages and benefits. We don't need to starve or negligently endanger our workers, but look at what happened to the US auto industry. Granted a lot of that was incompetence, but that incompetence included agreeing to unsustainable union contracts.

IMO a better arrangement INSTEAD of unions includes stock for the workers (not more than a small percentage for their pension plan, that's too risky). That way, the workers themselves have a better understanding that if they demand too much, the company that employs them won't exist anymore, or else will have to outsource to someplace cheaper. They'll have to balance what they want today with what they want a few years from now, and if that means generic chicken hot dogs on generic white bread instead of steak for now, that'd be their choice.

I think the world needs Civics 101 + Adam Smith and de Tocqueville on repeat with electroshock, until a certain segment of the ideological spectrum either changes their thinking or is deemed incurable and left without assistance to pursue their own Darwin Awards.
 

Tagbert

macrumors 603
Jun 22, 2011
5,652
6,625
Seattle
You can blame Unions for driving manufacturing outside of the US
No, MBAs optimizing the income stream did the heavy lifting to move manufacturing outside the US. Unions have had little to no influence for decades. They are just an excuse for those who want to reduce the influence of employees and justify the massive increase in compensation for the C-suite crew.
 
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citysnaps

macrumors G4
Oct 10, 2011
11,953
25,934
From some of the comments up above it appears many don't understand what what the word "Designed" means.
 

bookofxero

macrumors 6502
Dec 31, 2017
412
650
Will it make it cheaper in countries like the Philippines? Or is the US pricing not including the tax yet on Apple website?
Huh? There is no "US tax rate" - there is a giant tangle of different state and local sales taxes that vary wildly. If we had something flat, like a VAT, then that would be a different story.
 

bookofxero

macrumors 6502
Dec 31, 2017
412
650
Doesn’t Texas have like….one of the highest unemployment rates where unwilling people don’t want to work in that state? Seems like that would be a unlikely probability of that happening.
I mean, it is Texas. Have you seen the Texas-size messes they have made for themselves?
 

bookofxero

macrumors 6502
Dec 31, 2017
412
650
No, MBAs optimizing the income stream did the heavy lifting to move manufacturing outside the US. Unions have had little to no influence for decades. They are just an excuse for those who want to reduce the influence of employees and justify the massive increase in compensation for the C-suite crew.
Except for police unions - they just keep getting fatter and fatter on the citizens' dime.
 

ThunderSkunk

macrumors 68040
Dec 31, 2007
3,852
4,128
Milwaukee Area
You guys, this isn't 1970s. If Apple brought MFG back to the US it'd be in an automated lights-out facility. The only reason it makes sense to employ half a million Asians to build them by hand is that they're still slightly cheaper than building the inevitable fully robotic facility, so that's what you get for now. But it is coming. As for this dream of "providing jobs", the idea is dead before unions even enter into it. All the incentives are to dedicate a relative handful of mechanical and ind/production engineers to do it, put it in some tax haven like New Mexico, and control the design and mfg infrastucture from the ground up. It's just a matter of the best money in between now & then. Unions make labor more expensive. So do employees that have families and need higher salaries, so do employees that fall and drop stuff and get hurt and sue you, and not show up on time, and have to take breaks to eat and go to the bathroom, and have bad days and sick days. Human beings are quite poorly applied in mass production. Those jobs leave asia, and maybe they go to Africa after that, but when they leave everywhere else, they're evaporating into thin air, technology has moved on, humans are increasingly extraneous.
 

yabeweb

macrumors 6502a
Jun 25, 2021
703
1,580
If China eventually invade Taiwan and the west is dumb enough to impose sanctions then Apple could be crippled overnight. Diversifying production partners is a smart move by Cook but they better hurry up ?
Yeah I mean the worst part of China invading Taiwan is Apple being crippled right?
 
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wanha

macrumors 68000
Oct 30, 2020
1,511
4,379
Well, considering that there is a massive labor shortage where people don’t want to work, I highly suspect it wouldn’t benefit Apple to start trying to ‘create jobs’, when almost every industry can’t even locate viable/prospective employees who are willingly to work on a consistent basis. The first hurdle Apple needs to be clear, is actually having more stabilization in our economy until then, It be a bad business move at this point for Apple until the workforce can settle.
It's a massive labor shortage from the business's perspective.

It's a refusal to work for substandard pay and benefits from the employee side.

It's a question of supply and demand: pay higher wages and the employee shortage disappears in an instant.
 
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A Hobo

macrumors 6502
Jul 12, 2010
370
215
Somewhere between Here and There
Well, considering that there is a massive labor shortage where people don’t want to work, I highly suspect it wouldn’t benefit Apple to start trying to ‘create jobs’, when almost every industry can’t even locate viable/prospective employees who are willingly to work on a consistent basis. The first hurdle Apple needs to be clear, is actually having more stabilization in our economy until then, It be a bad business move at this point for Apple until the workforce can settle.
This is a simple problem and the soulution be should making Americans proud, but shareholders won’t allow it in lieu of ‘more profit always more’.

The solution is: apple pays more to produce products in the USA and pays those American employees livable wages…

There’s a reason they moved it abroad in the first place and it’s profit. It’s always profit. The products would have to cost more to cover it if they wanted the same margins, which might mean they can’t be sold to the average American anymore.

Average wages currently making the last part true anyways.
 

44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
42,491
I mean, it is Texas. Have you seen the Texas-size messes they have made for themselves?
Yes. And I’m proud to say I don’t live in that worthless state. It’s one of the reasons they have a very high unemployment rate.
 
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