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H2SO4

macrumors 603
Nov 4, 2008
5,686
6,958
I'm guessing many take the words seriously.

Maybe companies are, but in a thread about Apple, can you cite some examples (dishonesty and two faced) given privacy and security are not binary? One cannot flip a switch and declare privacy and security "all done", nothing else in the world to do.

Yep, this is what I was referring to above. So are YOU advocating Apple ban google ip addresses from it's infrastructure. (I actually don't expect an answer because the above comment is ludicrous)

Such as (given the above comments, that one can fix/update/change/tweak a massive corporation by flipping a light switch)
It IS, as simple as flipping a lightswitch. TC CAN stand up and publicly asy he'll stop. He won't.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,345
24,091
Gotta be in it to win it
It IS, as simple as flipping a lightswitch. TC CAN stand up and publicly asy he'll stop. He won't.
He'll stop what? Why should he change anything to appease some critics who will always find something to criticize, but not really stop the larger issue, of which is outside of Apples' control? (Apple is addressing what is in their control)

(It's not as easy as flipping a switch)
 
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4487549

Cancelled
Jun 8, 2017
551
612
Thank you, Tim Eagle:

1612027830722.png
 
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Tech198

Cancelled
Mar 21, 2011
15,915
2,151
It's still a gamble..

Your gambling for Apple to do this deep learning to separate how good they are doing this, choosing what is right and what its wrong, with info collected and/or processed. Compared to other companies which may not do that (so its under-stable why Apple boasts this technique as 'good' or 'better')

On the other hand, that same deep learning, how do we know it can't hurt users either ? It's always trust..

Slice that one how you like .
 

SuperMatt

Suspended
Mar 28, 2002
1,569
8,281
Well, first of all, Parlor was considered a refuge for some on the right that deemed Twitter far too left in their policies towards conservatives
As we saw in the attack on the Capitol, the people on the right who deemed Twitter too far left were dangerous extremists who killed Capitol police in their terror attack. Great move by Apple to shut down a service that was used to coordinate a terror attack on American soil.
 
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mi7chy

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2014
10,495
11,155
What was your testing procedure so that others can duplicate it?

I'll give a hint, EFF, on MBA M1 but people need to get in the habit of doing their homework to verify instead of accepting lip service and blind trust.
 
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SuperMatt

Suspended
Mar 28, 2002
1,569
8,281
I'll give a hint, EFF, on MBA M1 but people need to get in the habit of doing their homework to verify instead of accepting lip service and blind trust.
If one had an actual test result to share, one would think they would do so.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,345
24,091
Gotta be in it to win it
I think they do care about privacy in some way. And a lot of those point are fine or necessary evil when conducting business. I am OK with that.

I am not OK with Apple painting themselves as I am so righteous. Because it reeks of Hypocrisy.
It may “reek of hypocrisy “ but it’s not actually so. Taking a stand, moving in that direction, and having a responsibility to run a business does not make apple two faced.

I am reminded of the expression:”judge not lest ye be judged”.
 
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ksec

macrumors 68020
Dec 23, 2015
2,241
2,595
It may “reek of hypocrisy “ but it’s not actually so. Taking a stand, moving in that direction, and having a responsibility to run a business does not make apple two faced.

I am reminded of the expression:”judge not lest ye be judged”.
There is a different between taking a stand, moving in that direction and painting themselves as outright guardian and crusade.

That is the different between Tim Cook and Jobs Approach.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,345
24,091
Gotta be in it to win it
There is a different between taking a stand, moving in that direction and painting themselves as outright guardian and crusade.

That is the different between Tim Cook and Jobs Approach.
It may very well a crusade as Apple wants to accomplish something.

And sure there is a difference between Jobs and Cook, but Jobs had his own crusades, not all of it good.

However, I don't buy the subtext that is "apple is the guardian of all and therefore they reek of hypocrisy by doing business with China", which is where this is going.
 
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PinkyMacGodess

Suspended
Mar 7, 2007
10,271
6,226
Midwest America.
He'll stop what? Why should he change anything to appease some critics who will always find something to criticize, but not really stop the larger issue, of which is outside of Apples' control? (Apple is addressing what is in their control)

(It's not as easy as flipping a switch)

The problem, daling with extremists, is that the goalposts are always moving. Give them what they want in the moment, and they will come back and demand something else. Give them that, and they will find yet another thing that they will demand. The bad thing is the game just keeps going. And then they play 'victim', and the flying monkeys are given their flight orders, and pretty soon, the truth is buried in so much BS, no one not neck deep in it can't see it for what it is. I had people telling me that if you had nothing to hide, 'why have encryption'. As if nnot having authorities pawing through your life was an admission of guilt. But the actions of 'naughty people' should be able to be determined without looking at everything they desire privacy for.

Or, there needs to be some kind of 'magic encryption' to allow law enforcement to unencrypt it, if you are a naughty person. But who decides if you are naughty? And who questions you?

Given the fact that law enforcement can LEGALLY LIE TO YOU, who do you trust?

Who would you trust with everything in your personal life? And you don't have to be guilty of anything. They can make you guilty of whatever they want...

 
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Jason Manley

macrumors member
Jan 6, 2021
30
30
Hilliard, Ohio

PinkyMacGodess

Suspended
Mar 7, 2007
10,271
6,226
Midwest America.
Except, as my post indicated, it was Facebook and Instagram where most of the planning occurred.

But, who cares about dumb facts if you feel better, right?

And, just in time, FB creates a 'board of directors (?)' that conveniently overrule their blocking of obnoxious vermin. So FB is fine being the 'New Parler'?

All I can think of is Nikita Khrushchev, telling Kennedy, as I remember, that they (Russia) didn't have to attack America because: 'You give everyone the tools to destroy your government'. Meaning that if, as happened, enough extremists, fueled on lies and faux patriotism, can get power, or (enough states are ruled by one party), they can literally disassemble the 'democracy' that helps so many people survive. Khrushchev was totally correct!

Two ways to wrench democracy from America, actually three ways: 1) Elect a narcissistic egomaniac president 2) Have enough state legislatures ruled by the same political party 3) Outright civil war.

So, the GOP has really been trying to get a GOP heavy nation, in case no one noticed. What happens if they succeed? A 'Constitution Convention'. The 'dark money mavens get to literally trash the entire Constitution, and Bill of Rights, and rewrite the ruling documents of the entire country from scratch. I am being serious. Home Depot, Tesla, Goldman Sachs, and many others, reprogramming the United States of America. Literally. Imagine the rights we will lose.

We say the first item, in spades. And we are possibly near the third one as I type this.

The day that 'corporations were ruled to be people', and 'dark money' was ruled to be 'speech', the die was finally cast. America is about to become a corpritocracy, and most of the rights we enjoy will be obliterated. Like a 5 day workweek? *GONE* Like protections from being fired for literally no reason? *GONE* Like being able to fly where ever for vacation? HAH! Vacations: *GONE* Flying: *GONE*

Privacy after a corporate takeover is going to be the last thing we will get.

Has anyone read 'Snow Crash'? You really need to, if you haven't. A corporate owned America is not long coming. Imagine being a serf, an 'indentured servent', living on a plot of land that you do not own. Talk to a chicken 'farmer'. Look at their lives.

When America is taken over by the dark money and corporations, it will be a hell hole. Seriously, privacy will be the last thing on our minds.

But in the mean time, fight for whatever you can get...
 
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SuperMatt

Suspended
Mar 28, 2002
1,569
8,281
Except, as my post indicated, it was Facebook and Instagram where most of the planning occurred.

But, who cares about dumb facts if you feel better, right?
If you recall, Facebook at least pretended to take action against the extremists, while Parler publicly stated they would continue to give them a voice. I certainly would be happy if Facebook was immediately deleted today. But as long as they do these reactionary “oh we blocked some terrorist groups” actions when they’re exposed for being a haven for hate speech, Apple will not remove the app.

At this point, it will take strong anti-trust action to stop Facebook.
 

hatchettjack

macrumors 6502a
Oct 1, 2020
509
371
id say free speech is at the top followed by privacy! a climate that has been changing forever should be the least of our worries! IMHO, especially since were all using products made by a the #1 polluting country in the world!
 
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ericwn

macrumors G4
Apr 24, 2016
11,945
10,593
id say free speech is at the top followed by privacy! a climate that has been changing forever should be the least of our worries! IMHO, especially since were all using products made by a the #1 polluting country in the world!

So we pollute the climate doesn’t matter, because it’s changing?

Just because it’s challenging I’m not gonna want to stop humanity from understanding the planet.

No shying away from science in the 21st century.

Sure freedom of speech and privacy are also important once we make sure we have a climate and a planet left to live with.
 
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sos47

macrumors 6502
Jul 13, 2016
455
599
Today ive heard you, Mr Tim Cook, will ban Telegram. So, tell us more about this, and tell us more about privacy and free of speech and the technic to remotly delete Apps from our iPhones
 

ericwn

macrumors G4
Apr 24, 2016
11,945
10,593
Today ive heard you, Mr Tim Cook, will ban Telegram. So, tell us more about this, and tell us more about privacy and free of speech and the technic to remotly delete Apps from our iPhones

Source for this?
 

nikaru

macrumors 65816
Apr 23, 2009
1,123
1,397
Well, yes, but...

In today's world, there are so many people spewing lies and outright fomenting violence. At some point, there needs to be a way to identify people that are doing that, and target them, and somehow either get them to stop, or eliminate them from society. You can scoff at the issue all you want, but my brother has guns stocked up, and hundreds of thousands of rounds of ammo, and Facebook is supporting people on their platform communicate their agenda.

Would I want someone to be looking at my emails? Listening to my phone calls? No, but I also have no public 'sheen' of being a right wing nut job. Maybe instead of looking at people's emails, chats, social media, they need to watch these people's credit cards, and where they show up,, and who they are calling. You can tell a lot about what a person thinks by what they buy, what they watch, who they talk to. You don't need to actually see what they say to know they are up to no good.

Surveillance will just shift to what they can see. (One thing they largely can't see, is what guns people have. The NRA made sure that was 'secret')
Totally disagree! What you consider a lie, may be a true for someone else. There are tons of example throughout the history where people were killed, persecuted and tortured just because a vast majority of the population was convinced that they were lying e.g. the Earth is not the center of the universe, a woman living in the woods is not a witch, the gays were not the evil, people evolved from apes, etc, etc, etc. Lies are fought with true and evidence, not "eliminating these people from society". What you consider "fomenting violence" also depends on your point of view. Did Trump fomented violence in his famous speech before the Capitol assault? I saw the full speech and I did not see that. Other people argue that Trump basically instructed each man in the crowd to go storm the Capitol. All depends on what you want to see and hear. It is not all black and white and there is tons of gray areas in life.
 

PinkyMacGodess

Suspended
Mar 7, 2007
10,271
6,226
Midwest America.
Totally disagree! What you consider a lie, may be a true for someone else. There are tons of example throughout the history where people were killed, persecuted and tortured just because a vast majority of the population was convinced that they were lying e.g. the Earth is not the center of the universe, a woman living in the woods is not a witch, the gays were not the evil, people evolved from apes, etc, etc, etc. Lies are fought with true and evidence, not "eliminating these people from society". What you consider "fomenting violence" also depends on your point of view. Did Trump fomented violence in his famous speech before the Capitol assault? I saw the full speech and I did not see that. Other people argue that Trump basically instructed each man in the crowd to go storm the Capitol. All depends on what you want to see and hear. It is not all black and white and there is tons of gray areas in life.

You are entitled to your own opinions, sure, but you are not entitled to your own truth. If you teach, legislate, persecute, prosecute, preach, kill based on your lies, you are a danger to society and should be dealt with accordingly.

Believing that 'Jewish space lasers' caused the California wildfires should bar you from ANY public office. Believing that an entire group of people based on their skin color should be persecuted should bar you from ANY public office. Believing that forcing your 'religion' onto others is legal should bar you from serving in ANY public office. Touting known mass murder events as 'false flag events' should bar you from ANY public office. Saying that The Holocaust was a hoax should bar you from serving in ANY public office. Denying the results of an election that everyone responsible for ensuring it certified it as accurate should bar you from serving in ANY public office. Believing that members of your competing political party should be executed should bar you from serving in ANY public office. Believing that the COVID-19 pandemic is a hoax, and/or that vaccines are an attempt by Bill Gates to implant tracking chips in every American should bar you from serving in ANY public office. And on and on... (Pedophiles in government while ignoring Trump's relationship with Epstein? That's rich)

People that believe that crap should not be allowed to roam free in society. They should be locked up for their own safety. Seriously. That the GOP is taking a 'wide stance' on these issues is ridiculous. In a sane world, they would be laughed out of office.

---

And No, America should not 'accept and move on'...
 
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TracesOfArsenic

macrumors 6502a
Feb 22, 2018
983
1,481
Apple care about privacy only so far as they appear better than the others for marketing (and virtue signalling). Ultimately they're ruled by the dollar and acting in a truly privacy-focused manner wouldn't bode well with shareholders. While I wish they'd fully follow through on the privacy rhetoric I can appreciate they're in a tricky spot.
 
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