Are you capable of having a nuanced conversation about this topic or is condescension all you have?
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Apple Defends Ecosystem in Australia as Antitrust Firefighting Around the World Continues
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Are you capable of having a nuanced conversation about this topic or is condescension all you have?
I’m just saying Apple needs to pull out of Earth and focus on the rest of the solar system.
I don't want to go back to the bad old days of buying apps off of sketchy websites like I had to do for my Palm Pilot. I suspect there will be enough apps that pull out of the AppStore that most people won't be able to just choose to stay in the walled garden like many people suggest.
Yeah, because the Australian government clearly holds its citizens’ freedom(s) in high regard. Give me a break.
“Think of the freedoms” is the new “think of the children,” it seems. As much as I believe in the enrichment and protection of both freedom and of children, both arguments are lazy, hypocritical, and often used to perpetuate hostile government overreach.
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Come on man, don't you see, obviously the only difference between iOS and Android is third-party app installation. Literally, the only difference.
/s
Nuance isn't the strong suit of most here. See claims that this change will make iOS exactly the same as Android for evidence.
How do you imagine this working:
I bought AppX from the Apple store, I own it. AppX is then removed from the Apple App Store and moves to Steam, how do I get updates?
I imagine I will need to join the Steam store, give Steam all my info including a CC, just to receive updates for an app I already own. It then gets better, 1 year later Epic decides to give that dev a better deal for exclusive distribution rights, now I need to sign up on Epic's store, give them all my info, etc.
My other choice is to abandon the app.
I don't view either of these choices as an improved experience over what I enjoy today.
I have said this multiple times, if as part of the Apple Dev program apps must have a presence in the Apple App store and use Apple for payments as well as be available in other places with other payment processors I no longer have an issue and I think this makes everyone happy. Buy from the Apple store if you want, buy from the devs store if you want but all apps need to be in "both" places.
While this could be a rare but impacting (to a user) case in point, how about we see what Apple puts forth as a solution which we can then pick at instead of diving into a conceptualized doom and gloom and OMG the world is failing mindscape to rationalize why we should NOT change anything about the App Store.
Hmmm... nice run on sentence
Apple still refusing to get ahead of this issue; they need to get serious about addressing these concerns or these governments are going to do it without their input. Pretending everything is fine and governments across the world are wrong in their assessments is not going to work in Apples favor.
At this point it’s obvious Tim Cook has no other options, he must have really backed himself into a corner if he so desperately needs App Store fees to keep those record breaking profits and his job. Poor leadership and short-term thinking has left Apple with massive profits, but little way to protect those profit margins long term. Apple will be fine, but Tim will be gone; it’s a matter of time before regulators act and Apple’s bubble bursts, having no other revenue streams to effectively compensate.
Scoffing at world governments and pointing at other bad actors is not a winning strategy.
At this point it’s obvious Tim Cook has no other options, he must have really backed himself into a corner if he so desperately needs App Store fees to keep those record breaking profits and his job. Poor leadership and short-term thinking has left Apple with massive profits, but little way to protect those profit margins long term. Apple will be fine, but Tim will be gone; it’s a matter of time before regulators act and Apple’s bubble bursts, having no other revenue streams to effectively compensate.
Scoffing at world governments and pointing at other bad actors is not a winning strategy.
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Yes, they would have. Just look at the Mac. It's WAY smaller than the iPhone as part of what makes up Apple's profits.
It would be "LESS" secure than it is today. More ways in, means exactly that. More ways for "everyone" good or bad to get in. Much more work to try and prevent the bad from getting in.
We just have to look at what exists today to see what could have been.
How? Xbox Streaming games on my iPhone works. So that kills the EPIC store problem. I'm sure other Apps could easily work via the web app method. It's not for all apps, but I'm sure a good amount would be fine that way.
AGREED!
YUP.
I don't really think this will be rare but ok, fair enough as we don't know what the end result will look like until every country has their legislators take a whack at Apple.
I'm not really sure Apple has much control over this, the legislators seem to have all the control which forces Apple into a reactionary roll. Take the Dutch incident as an example, Apple would put a solution in place and the legislators would say "not good enough". Country A will ask for Solution A while Country B will find Solution A unacceptable, rinse and repeat.
Again, why are some people so against a calm conversation or debate. I have never claimed "doom and gloom" or that this would result in "the world failing". I have only lamented what I feel will be a diminished consumer experience if the current iOS ecosystem is legislated into extinction. Any example of "what-ifs" that I have presented in the many threads on this topic are what I feel are very reasonable examples of what could happen and how user experience will be impacted. As we do not know what the end result will be I think it reasonable to discuss "what-ifs" versus digging a hole in the sand for my head and waiting to see what happens.
Wouldn't a mix of both open and closed ecosystems be good for consumer choice?
There would only be one reason for a mass exodus from Apple's app store - Apple's value proposition is terrible compared to alternatives. Considering how many people are absolutely sure that there would be such a mass exodus from Apple's store that avoiding third-party sites for downloading apps is pretty much unavoidable, then I guess we already know how little value Apple themselves actually provide to the ecosystem.
Apple certainly doesn't have much control over this anymore. And rightly so.
The writing has been on the wall for a long while, and Apple could have taken at least some steps toward granting device ownership back to device owners and allowing developers to determine how to best serve their own customers. Instead, Apple decided to take the stance that every iOS device owner is Apple's customer and Apple's customer alone and that Apple should own not only the iOS IP, but the entire customer base using that operating system. This is a clearly abusive, anti-consumer stance, and is why Apple now will face the reality that their opinion on these regulations no longer matters.
He mentions that you will lose some apps from the store, as the will go it alone or on another store and not be on Apple's store.
And potentially not have access to your apps.
No, my choice was made for me. I now have no choice but the one they (others) made.
Switch to Android, it's easier for you to do this AND get what you want. As in No Walled Garden and a huge selection of devices to choice from. VS us that want it the way it is. Having to deal with losing what we choose to have in the first place.
And if your not willing to switch, why should any of us be willing to accept this?
The eco-system exists because of Apple. How Dev's got all the credit for this is beyond me.
If regulators decide to force Apple to give away the value that Apple created for free, that doesn't mean the value didn't exist.
More likely, if Apple is forced to allow alternative app stores, they will charge a "platform fee" to those app stores much like they've proposed for the Dutch dating app case. I wouldn't be surprised if they still required review of all apps sold through third-party app stores and enforced the same rules they have now in exchange for full API access.
I use most of them. I don't consider them crappy.
The ecosystem would not exist without devs. Apple wouldn't have a mobile platform if it wasn't for developers writing apps for iOS.
Who said Apple would have to give away their value for free? Customers still pay money to Apple when buying a phone. Apple would still presumably charge for developers to enter Apple's developer program and use Xcode (should developers find it still provides as good a development experience as alternatives). Apple could still charge whatever they deem appropriate to host apps on their own store. I'm not sure why allowing free competition would suddenly mean Apple is doing anything for free - unless you think that "zero" is the exact value of what Apple provides today.If regulators decide to force Apple to give away the value that Apple created for free, that doesn't mean the value didn't exist.
More likely, if Apple is forced to allow alternative app stores, they will charge a "platform fee" to those app stores much like they've proposed for the Dutch dating app case. I wouldn't be surprised if they still required review of all apps sold through third-party app stores and enforced the same rules they have now in exchange for full API access.
I can see the following leaving the AppStore right away.While this could be a rare but impacting (to a user) case in point, how about we see what Apple puts forth as a solution which we can then pick at instead of diving into a conceptualized doom and gloom and OMG the world is failing mindscape to rationalize why we should NOT change anything about the App Store.
Hmmm... nice run on sentence
1) Adobe
2) Microsoft
3) Any game developer owned by Microsoft (which is a growing list now)
4) Any developer that makes similar apps to Microsoft or Adobe. Why stay?
If any developer has the ability to either provide their own means to get onto iOS (web install, side load, or 3rd party store). They will leave. There is zero reason to stay, as they are big enough already and already have the infrastructure to do everything Apple does. Smaller developers not so much. It could be split between staying and going or being on both. Apps that had been free have no care about stores. They will be on both/all so long as they aren't being charged to much or anything to do so.
Your going to get many stores, with many different rules. All of which will care MUCH less than people think Apple cares today about their own store. And whenever Apple updates the OS to fix something, and breaks one of these other stores or means of access. Everyone will be here complaining about it.
Wouldn't a mix of both open and closed ecosystems be good for consumer choice?
Why is it that having diverse choices of ecosystems is bad?
The Trees
Rush
There is unrest in the forest
There is trouble with the trees
For the maples want more sunlight
And the oaks ignore their pleas
The trouble with the maples
And they're quite convinced they're right
They say the oaks are just too lofty
And they grab up all the light
But the oaks can't help their feelings
If they like the way they're made
And they wonder why the maples
Can't be happy in their shade
There is trouble in the forest
And the creatures all have fled
As the maples scream "Oppression"
And the oaks just shake their heads
So the maples formed a union
And demanded equal rights
"The oaks are just too greedy
We will make them give us light"
Now there's no more oak oppression
For they passed a noble law
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw
I think diversity of choice in ecosystems is far better than a single, legislated, homogeneous one.
Why is it that having diverse choices of ecosystems is bad?
The Trees
Rush
There is unrest in the forest
There is trouble with the trees
For the maples want more sunlight
And the oaks ignore their pleas
The trouble with the maples
And they're quite convinced they're right
They say the oaks are just too lofty
And they grab up all the light
But the oaks can't help their feelings
If they like the way they're made
And they wonder why the maples
Can't be happy in their shade
There is trouble in the forest
And the creatures all have fled
As the maples scream "Oppression"
And the oaks just shake their heads
So the maples formed a union
And demanded equal rights
"The oaks are just too greedy
We will make them give us light"
Now there's no more oak oppression
For they passed a noble law
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw
I think diversity of choice in ecosystems is far better than a single, legislated, homogeneous one.
Stop. What came first, iPhone or Apps?
Tim for president , lets face it unlike 99.9% of politicians he knows how to run a business , most of them couldn't run a tap