Apple Defends Ecosystem in Australia as Antitrust Firefighting Around the World Continues

[ct2k7]

I use most of them. I don't consider them crappy.

Right - I think they could do more to make it better, but they're certainly not crappy.

 

[abhibeckert]

The only viable option would be to give users the option to choose a secure configuration or one that is open to other app stores. That option would need to give the developers of secured apps the option of not allowing their software to run on unsecured phones.

The ACCC report goes into extensive detail about dark patterns and lock in and integration.

I suspect they won't accept any middle ground where customers have to make a choice between bring inside or outside a walled garden. The wall needs to come down and it can't be replaced with a low fence.

 

[cupcakes2000]

Remind me again - which thousand dollar device did you purchase that locks you into using Steam's app store?

That more begs the question, why purchase it in the first place? There are plenty of 1000 quid phones that offer other choices.

 

[BaldiMac]

Who said Apple would have to give away their value for free? Customers still pay money to Apple when buying a phone. Apple would still presumably charge for developers to enter Apple's developer program and use Xcode (should developers find it still provides as good a development experience as alternatives). Apple could still charge whatever they deem appropriate to host apps on their own store. I'm not sure why allowing free competition would suddenly mean Apple is doing anything for free - unless you think that "zero" is the exact value of what Apple provides today.

Apple is currently selling access to the platform through the App Store. Forcing Apple to allow third-party app stores without compensation would be giving away that value (access to the platform) for free.

Like I said, I doubt that will happen.

 

[abhibeckert]

How do you imagine this working:

I bought AppX from the Apple store, I own it. AppX is then removed from the Apple App Store and moves to Steam, how do I get updates?

I imagine I will need to join the Steam store, give Steam all my info including a CC, just to receive updates for an app I already own. It then gets better, 1 year later Epic decides to give that dev a better deal for exclusive distribution rights, now I need to sign up on Epic's store, give them all my info, etc.

My other choice is to abandon the app.

I don't view either of these choices as an improved experience over what I enjoy today.

I have said this multiple times, if as part of the Apple Dev program apps must have a presence in the Apple App store and use Apple for payments as well as be available in other places with other payment processors I no longer have an issue and I think this makes everyone happy. Buy from the Apple store if you want, buy from the devs store if you want but all apps need to be in "both" places.

I expect what will really happen is the loss of lock in and exclusivity will force Apple to defend it's half trillion dollar a year in sales by improving the App Store so that developers continue to use it. And developers will continue to use it.

 

[Naraxus]

While apple has to follows laws, iOS will wind up like android, unfortunately.

How so?

 

[abhibeckert]

Wouldn't a mix of both open and closed ecosystems be good for consumer choice?

Only if the closed system doesn't have "Market Power" as defined in the ACCC report - which explains why in clear and extensive detail so I won't repeat it here.

 

[@Brett]

As an Australian I think there are other things the ACCC should be doing. Leave the Apple ecosystem alone. If I wanted open I would go to Android.

 

[icanhazmac]

Only if the closed system doesn't have "Market Power" as defined in the ACCC report - which explains why in clear and extensive detail so I won't repeat it here.

Android and iOS market share Australia 2024 | Statista

Australia's mobile OS market was led by Apple's iOS. The combined market share of Android and iOS was almost 99% in 2024.

www.statista.com

As iOS has barely over 50% marketshare in Australia I fail to see the market power the report details. If this were a Microsoft and IE in the 1990s thing I would hear you out but it isn't. Anyone can claim anything, doesn't make it true.

 

[planteater]

No it isn't.

If devs choose to leave the Apple App Store to either go it alone or be exclusively in another store we as consumers lose:

1. The convenience of a one stop shop for app purchases and updates
2. The security/privacy of Apple's payment system versus others
3. The very clear privacy declarations that the Apple store requires.

When alternative apps stores open up, any app that I need/want that goes to them loses me as a customer. If any leave that I require, I leave iOS. I’ll use Android with a firewall before using iOS wide open. Personally, I want nothing to do with Android, but I’ll move to it if need be.

 

[bobenhaus]

Poor Apple dug themselves into a hole and cant get out of it now.

 

[dk001]

I don't really think this will be rare but ok, fair enough as we don't know what the end result will look like until every country has their legislators take a whack at Apple.



I'm not really sure Apple has much control over this, the legislators seem to have all the control which forces Apple into a reactionary roll. Take the Dutch incident as an example, Apple would put a solution in place and the legislators would say "not good enough". Country A will ask for Solution A while Country B will find Solution A unacceptable, rinse and repeat.



Again, why are some people so against a calm conversation or debate. I have never claimed "doom and gloom" or that this would result in "the world failing". I have only lamented what I feel will be a diminished consumer experience if the current iOS ecosystem is legislated into extinction. Any example of "what-ifs" that I have presented in the many threads on this topic are what I feel are very reasonable examples of what could happen and how user experience will be impacted. As we do not know what the end result will be I think it reasonable to discuss "what-ifs" versus digging a hole in the sand for my head and waiting to see what happens.

Wouldn't a mix of both open and closed ecosystems be good for consumer choice?

Early in the 15.5 beta there was reference to alternate store / sideloading functionality. I have neither seen nor heard of it since. I suspect Apple has been looking into this. Perhaps Apple is waiting (reactive is generally a poor stance) till many have had their turn at putting forth requirements.

You perhaps not as much as many put forth the worst case scenarios, yet the "examples" of what could go wrong are constantly trotted out as "see what could/will happen" to scare an opinion instead of inviting a discussion. Truthfully both sides do this. However, I do not see an Apple solution that would be worse than that used in the Android world. To that point, Apple has been at the forefront of the "OMG Doom and Gloom" with their "claims". That doesn't help.

A point we all need to keep in mind, for many of these topics, they are not Apple specific. The headline may be, the topic is not. Even the document for this thread (ACCC) mentions Google far more than Apple.

 

[I7guy]

Calendar
Mail
Podcasts
Files
Photos
etc....

I don’t think they are crappy….mail, calendar, files and photos work from my point of view.

 

[dk001]

He mentions that you will lose some apps from the store, as the will go it alone or on another store and not be on Apple's store.

And potentially not have access to your apps.

No, my choice was made for me. I now have no choice but the one they (others) made.

Switch to Android, it's easier for you to do this AND get what you want. As in No Walled Garden and a huge selection of devices to choice from. VS us that want it the way it is. Having to deal with losing what we choose to have in the first place.

And if your not willing to switch, why should any of us be willing to accept this?

Emphasis is mine ...

One of the things most should do is read the actual mentioned documents. This is not just about Apple. The thread headline is.

Some Apple users want change
Some Apple users want no change
Some Apple users don't care

This isn't a discussion on "don't like it move to Android". The same old claim that sideloading in iOS/iPadOS will make it into Android is seriously ludicrous.

 

[dk001]

I use most of them. I don't consider them crappy.

That's your choice and opinion.
Many find them less than adequate and why myself and others have spoken up for allowing alternative default apps for years. Hopefully Apple allows more than the minimum default reassigning they currently permit.

 

[dk001]

I can see the following leaving the AppStore right away.
1) Adobe
2) Microsoft
3) Any game developer owned by Microsoft (which is a growing list now)
4) Any developer that makes similar apps to Microsoft or Adobe. Why stay?

If any developer has the ability to either provide their own means to get onto iOS (web install, side load, or 3rd party store). They will leave. There is zero reason to stay, as they are big enough already and already have the infrastructure to do everything Apple does. Smaller developers not so much. It could be split between staying and going or being on both. Apps that had been free have no care about stores. They will be on both/all so long as they aren't being charged to much or anything to do so.

Your going to get many stores, with many different rules. All of which will care MUCH less than people think Apple cares today about their own store. And whenever Apple updates the OS to fix something, and breaks one of these other stores or means of access. Everyone will be here complaining about it.

Have they left the Android environment today (Play Store)?
Why do you continue to put forth the "doom and gloom" with no supporting evidence?

 

[BaldiMac]

That's your choice and opinion.
Many find them less than adequate and why myself and others have spoken up for allowing alternative default apps for years. Hopefully Apple allows more than the minimum default reassigning they currently permit.

I've never thought about a need for different default apps other than web browser. What does that mean in practice? I just don't run into that problem.

 

[dk001]

Wouldn't a mix of both open and closed ecosystems be good for consumer choice?

Why is it that having diverse choices of ecosystems is bad?

The Trees
Rush

There is unrest in the forest
There is trouble with the trees
For the maples want more sunlight
And the oaks ignore their pleas

The trouble with the maples
And they're quite convinced they're right
They say the oaks are just too lofty
And they grab up all the light

But the oaks can't help their feelings
If they like the way they're made
And they wonder why the maples
Can't be happy in their shade

There is trouble in the forest
And the creatures all have fled
As the maples scream "Oppression"
And the oaks just shake their heads

So the maples formed a union
And demanded equal rights
"The oaks are just too greedy
We will make them give us light"
Now there's no more oak oppression
For they passed a noble law
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw

I think diversity of choice in ecosystems is far better than a single, legislated, homogeneous one.

Diverse - yes, but diverse within an platform. Playing iOS vs some Android versions doesn't work unless there were more players (MS, Linux, etc).

JMO

 

[dk001]

Right - I think they could do more to make it better, but they're certainly not crappy.

Then let's say they could be much better than their current incarnations and fall behind many 3rd party offerings.

 

[dk001]

When alternative apps stores open up, any app that I need/want that goes to them loses me as a customer. If any leave that I require, I leave iOS. I’ll use Android with a firewall before using iOS wide open. Personally, I want nothing to do with Android, but I’ll move to it if need be.

So you would leave a "wide open" for another "wide open"? That makes little sense.
Can you elaborate?

 

[dk001]

I've never thought about a need for different default apps other than web browser. What does that mean in practice? I just don't run into that problem.

That's cool. Many are okay with Apple's apps.

 

[BaldiMac]

That's cool. Many are okay with Apple's apps.

Okay. But that doesn't answer the question. I'm just curious about what you mean when you ask for alternative default apps.

 

[Wildkraut]

iPhone 15 will be the best iPhone ever made.

• USB-C
• Right to self repair
• Sideloading
• Alternative AppStores
• Alternative Payment methods
• Open NFC for r/w
• Real Alternative Browsers with their original Engines

My advice is to skip the iPhone 14!

 

[I7guy]

iPhone 15 will be the best iPhone ever made.

• USB-C
• Right to self repair
• Sideloading
• Alternative AppStores
• Alternative Payment methods
• Open NFC for r/w
• Real Alternative Browsers with their original Engines

My advice is to skip the iPhone 14!

Yep. Might be available only in the US. The EU is gonna get the iPhone 4s and it can be jailbroken to one’s desires.

 

[Wildkraut]

Since this isn’t be said, I’ll have to say it. Maybe apple should put Australia in its rear view mirror. Then Australia customers won’t have to worry. Android will fulfill their tech needs needs.

Ok let me sum up, based on the latest MR antitrust, etc. headlines.

Apple should leave the US,EU(27 countries ),UK,AU,BR,CN,KR,RU[✅] ?

Not many countries left to make money…