Apple Freezes Plan to Buy Memory Chips From China's YMTC After US Imposes Export Controls

[centauratlas]

"Anglo-Saxon racism" tell that to my Taiwanese wife.

Just to be clear, the CCP would say that is racist and anti-Chinese to say "Taiwanese wife". It is "Chinese" wife to them. A totalitarian, authoritarian state being imposed on 1.4 billion by a small minority of the CCP with the intent to export it to the world does nothing except raise the prospects of the world being destroying and it turning into a slave planet ruled by people who don't care about the environment.

 

[vipergts2207]

Ah yes. Anything that is not negative said about China is CCP propaganda.

But the 99% negative stories about China in the west is not propaganda at all.

Do you have anything more original?

What's next, you'll tell us that China is actually a democracy?

 

[ScottishDuck]

Yikes. China is US enemy #1, one of the only countries working on a military to rival ours. Several experts predict that they will actually pass us in technology within the next decade. China is not our friend and it isn’t about economics. It’s about becoming the new leader of the free world and there’s only one way that can take place.

In what sense is there a free world if the two potential leaders are genocidal hypercapitalist oligarchies.

 

[NMBob]

I'll say it now, sanctions against China are coming, our useless British PM is declaring them a direct threat and said she wanted to sanction China before she came PM, even through the government has allowed various Chinese companies and conglomerates to buy up half the country.
Let's see what happens.

Did she say that into a microphone made in China?

 

[NMBob]

True in 1976. True in 2022.

Jensen: You have meddled with the primal forces of nature, Mr. Beale, and I won't have it!! Is that clear?! You think you've merely stopped a business deal. That is not the case. The Arabs have taken billions of dollars out of this country, and now they must put it back! It is ebb and flow, tidal gravity! It is ecological balance!

You are an old man who thinks in terms of nations and peoples. There are no nations. There are no peoples. There are no Russians. There are no Arabs. There are no third worlds. There is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems, one vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multivariate, multinational dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars, reichmarks, rins, rubles, pounds, and shekels.

It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today. That is the atomic and subatomic and galactic structure of things today! And YOU have meddled with the primal forces of nature, and YOU WILL ATONE!

Am I getting through to you, Mr. Beale?

You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and ITT and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today.

What do you think the Russians talk about in their councils of state -- Karl Marx? They get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, minimax solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do.

We no longer live in a world of nations and ideologies, Mr. Beale. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable bylaws of business. The world is a business, Mr. Beale. It has been since man crawled out of the slime. And our children will live, Mr. Beale, to see that perfect world in which there's no war or famine, oppression or brutality -- one vast and ecumenical holding company, for whom all men will work to serve a common profit, in which all men will hold a share of stock, all necessities provided, all anxieties tranquilized, all boredom amused.

And I have chosen you, Mr. Beale, to preach this evangel.

Beale: But why me?

Jensen: Because you're on television, dummy. Sixty million people watch you every night of the week, Monday through Friday.

Beale: I have seen the face of God.

Jensen: You just might be right, Mr. Beale.

 

[sunny5]

It's nothing new for US. They've done this to Japan before. The only difference now is that China has a high chance to surpass the US due to its resources while Japan never really had that potential.

And because China has a communist government (in name only, capitalism in practice), the US has another angle to justify these policies.

The US can say "we're banning chip imports/exports to China because they're a single communist government state" instead of saying "we're banning chip imports/exports to China because we're trying to slow their growth so we can stay the world boss longer".




https://www.project-syndicate.org/c...a-is-the-new-japan-by-stephen-s-roach-2019-05

I always laugh when people think China vs the US is anything other than economics.

Wow, for those of you who disagrees, are you serious? China is a god damn capitalist country ruled by a dictator with many issues. They seriously dont care about the human right while they spread their own ideology toward their own people by brain washing them. China is a biggest threat and you already saw what they did with "Band of China". They dont allow the freedom of speech and therefore, you must against them.

China is another Soviet Union and we must ban them by all means necessary. OH I know this well cause I was living in Asia and many Asian countries also hate China and Chinese people so much for what they did and are doing.

 

[tridley68]

Biden administration blaming China for all the world's problems I believe that.

 

[Pezimak]

Did she say that into a microphone made in China?

I think we can be pretty certain in saying yes 😉

 

[avz]

I always laugh when people think China vs the US is anything other than economics.

It seems that you are simply too scared to admit that it is all about the power game.

The bottom line is that China is still scared of the secondary sanctions that can be imposed by the US. There is a reason why Nancy Pelosi has more stones than there is in an entire mainland China.

And you are seriously talking about moving up the value chain? You are right your best bet will be indeed to laugh and make it into one big joke.

 

[Arid]

Wow! This forum has been taken over by the 50 cent party!

 

[strawbale]

Funny. I don’t remember China being the country that has started wars with most of the world, continue to start wars, infiltrate and install leaders in foreign countries, etc.

Get your head out of your ass. The media propaganda has been strong.

Chinese leader(ship) is more intelligent - they know you don't need to start a war, but still be very influential behind the scenes

 

[avz]

Wow! This forum has been taken over by the 50 cent party!

"You gotta fight for your right to party!"

 

[Obioban]

Is China causing you problems in real life? No. Hard-working Chinese people is the reason we have abundant affordable products in the western world. But when the Chinese want to move up the value chain so they can catch up in quality of life, the west is now suddenly saying they're all around an evil country that must be sanctioned.

I mean, yes. China is #1 polluter in the world. China is currently building more coal power plants than the rest of the world combined. That effects everyone. China is currently used forced/slave labor. Slave labor and zero care given to preserving the environment puts them at a competitive advantage in producing cheap goods vs countries that don't use slave labor or try not to destroy the planet.

The CCP is actively undermining US institutions and public discourse.

The CCP is providing the ingredients necessary to make illegal drugs to South American countries, with the goal of worsening the drug problem in the USA.

The CCP has said they are in a state of unrestricted warfare with the USA for years. Anything they can do to harm the USA, they do. To think otherwise is naive or intentionally misleading others.

Hard working Chinese people are, indeed, not the problem. Their government, and the decades of ongoing atrocities they commit, very much are. Unless the Chinese people overthrow their government (not easy, since the CCP is the only government in the world that spends more on internal suppression/policing than their military, and the military is a branch of the political party-- not the state), they sadly will have to get caught up in the consequences of their governments actions. But, they suffer either way-- see how the CCP is currently committing genocide against one of the ethnic groups in the country, or locking millions of citizens in their homes for weeks on end with no source of food/etc.

 

[strawbale]

Politics 101 is to distract your voter base and blame your problems on a foreign country. Having a common foreign enemy gives power to politicians. China is an easy target due to prolonged media propaganda and historical anglo saxon racism towards the Chinese.

Is China causing you problems in real life? No. Hard-working Chinese people is the reason we have abundant affordable products in the western world. But when the Chinese want to move up the value chain so they can catch up in quality of life, the west is now suddenly saying they're all around an evil country that must be sanctioned.

The west is basically saying to China, "no, you can't design, produce, and sell advanced technology. You must stay as our cheap factory."

"Is China causing you problems in real life? No."

Unless you're peacefully protesting in front of a Chinese Consulate in the UK:

Calls for UK response after protester attacked at Chinese consulate

Foreign secretary urged to take action after Hong Kong demonstrator punched and kicked in Manchester

www.theguardian.com

of which last paragraph reads:

There have already been more than 140,000 applications for visas under the scheme and the British government expects hundreds of thousands of people to move to the UK within five years.

 

[avz]

Chinese leader(ship) is more intelligent - they know you don't need to start a war, but still be very influential behind the scenes

There are many ways to demonstrate power without war: Charlie Sheen(in "Two And A Half Men") is standing up for his younger brother in front of his friends thus achieving two things at once: helping brother while raising his profile within his group. Effortless.

Chinese leadership might be intelligent but they are probably tend to overthink(we know we need to help this guy, but we don't want to help him too much and so on). As a result a lot of missed opportunities and a domino effect which in the end will most likely results in having to regain the lost power the hard way using military.

 

[Flabasha]

After 30 years and tens of thousands of dollars, I've stopped buying Apple until they move more manufacturing out of China. Aside from their grotesque human rights violations, they're openly aiding Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Samsung is doing quite nicely for me at the moment, as I replaced my 12.9" iPad Pro with the very sweet 15" OLED Galaxy Tab Ultra.

 

[klasma]

Chinese leader(ship) is more intelligent - they know you don't need to start a war, but still be very influential behind the scenes

There is a risk that Xi, given the growing personality cult he commands, will increasingly be surrounded by yes-men who provide him with a distorted view of reality. He might, at some point, come to the conclusion that a successful invasion of Taiwan is now possible with acceptable cost. Maybe not unlike Putin who thought the Russian military could take Ukraine within a few weeks.

 

[Flabasha]

True in 1976. True in 2022.

Jensen: You have meddled with the primal forces of nature, Mr. Beale, and I won't have it!! Is that clear?! You think you've merely stopped a business deal. That is not the case. The Arabs have taken billions of dollars out of this country, and now they must put it back! It is ebb and flow, tidal gravity! It is ecological balance!

You are an old man who thinks in terms of nations and peoples. There are no nations. There are no peoples. There are no Russians. There are no Arabs. There are no third worlds. There is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems, one vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multivariate, multinational dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars, reichmarks, rins, rubles, pounds, and shekels.

It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today. That is the atomic and subatomic and galactic structure of things today! And YOU have meddled with the primal forces of nature, and YOU WILL ATONE!

Am I getting through to you, Mr. Beale?

You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and ITT and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today.

What do you think the Russians talk about in their councils of state -- Karl Marx? They get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, minimax solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do.

We no longer live in a world of nations and ideologies, Mr. Beale. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable bylaws of business. The world is a business, Mr. Beale. It has been since man crawled out of the slime. And our children will live, Mr. Beale, to see that perfect world in which there's no war or famine, oppression or brutality -- one vast and ecumenical holding company, for whom all men will work to serve a common profit, in which all men will hold a share of stock, all necessities provided, all anxieties tranquilized, all boredom amused.

And I have chosen you, Mr. Beale, to preach this evangel.

Beale: But why me?

Jensen: Because you're on television, dummy. Sixty million people watch you every night of the week, Monday through Friday.

Beale: I have seen the face of God.

Jensen: You just might be right, Mr. Beale.

Still one of the top 10 movies in film history.

And I suspect it will remain so, 100 years from now.

 

[klasma]

The west needs to learn to manufacture products themselves again.

I agree, but it’s virtually impossible to do so while maintaining current price levels. It’s a difficult comparison to make, but if you look at what consumer electronics and computers cost 30+ years ago before globalization kicked in, adjusted for inflation, we might be looking at roughly double the current prices.

 

[Gasu E.]

Seems like American propaganda is working well. People here actually believe that modern China could only copy/steal.


View attachment 2096401


View attachment 2096402


Also, people forget that just 200 years ago, China had a higher GDP than Europe and the US combined. This significant advantage was eroded by drugs, colonialism, and wars. Unfortunately, people still think that the rise of modern China is a fluke and only because they steal US tech. You can argue that China is simply regaining its world status that it had before it was eroded by the West.


View attachment 2096403


There is no doubt that China is behind technologically today. But let's not act like espionage is what will allow China to catch up.

You need to provide a link to the source, since that "data" looks like guesswork. Nobody could possible know what the GDP of China was in 1820, let alone 1000 AD-- and at Purchasing Power Parity, to boot!

 

[avz]

True in 1976. True in 2022.

Jensen: You have meddled with the primal forces of nature, Mr. Beale, and I won't have it!! Is that clear?! You think you've merely stopped a business deal. That is not the case. The Arabs have taken billions of dollars out of this country, and now they must put it back! It is ebb and flow, tidal gravity! It is ecological balance!

You are an old man who thinks in terms of nations and peoples. There are no nations. There are no peoples. There are no Russians. There are no Arabs. There are no third worlds. There is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems, one vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multivariate, multinational dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars, reichmarks, rins, rubles, pounds, and shekels.

It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today. That is the atomic and subatomic and galactic structure of things today! And YOU have meddled with the primal forces of nature, and YOU WILL ATONE!

Am I getting through to you, Mr. Beale?

You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and ITT and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today.

What do you think the Russians talk about in their councils of state -- Karl Marx? They get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, minimax solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do.

We no longer live in a world of nations and ideologies, Mr. Beale. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable bylaws of business. The world is a business, Mr. Beale. It has been since man crawled out of the slime. And our children will live, Mr. Beale, to see that perfect world in which there's no war or famine, oppression or brutality -- one vast and ecumenical holding company, for whom all men will work to serve a common profit, in which all men will hold a share of stock, all necessities provided, all anxieties tranquilized, all boredom amused.

And I have chosen you, Mr. Beale, to preach this evangel.

Beale: But why me?

Jensen: Because you're on television, dummy. Sixty million people watch you every night of the week, Monday through Friday.

Beale: I have seen the face of God.

Jensen: You just might be right, Mr. Beale.

Those who play for money will always lose to those who play for power.

Ask Biden if he cares how much money Apple is going to lose.

 

[lysingur]

Seems like American propaganda is working well. People here actually believe that modern China could only copy/steal.


View attachment 2096401


View attachment 2096402


Also, people forget that just 200 years ago, China had a higher GDP than Europe and the US combined. This significant advantage was eroded by drugs, colonialism, and wars. Unfortunately, people still think that the rise of modern China is a fluke and only because they steal US tech. You can argue that China is simply regaining its world status that it had before it was eroded by the West.


View attachment 2096403


There is no doubt that China is behind technologically today. But let's not act like espionage is what will allow China to catch up.

China's GDP during the Qing dynasty was built on manpower, not technology like the West post-Industrial Revolution. It was disingenuous not to mention that China circa 1800 had more than 30% of the world's population so naturally it would have had a similar percentage share of the world's GDP at the time.

China's downfall was her own doing. The Manchus became highly corrupt in the mid-18th century during the reign of the Qianlong Emperor. When introduced to Western technologies by Jesuit missionaries, the pompous Manchu emperor brushed them aside as gewgaws of the barbarians.

The rise of China may not be a fluke but it sure is built on Western and then Soviet technology. The Open Door Policy of Deng Xiaoping, who ushered in China's meteoric rise in the world economy, was modelled on the earlier success of Taiwan and Singapore, two of the Four Asian Tigers.

As for the number of scientific publications, you should ask yourself how many of those publications are actually of substance. As the effectiveness of their own COVID vaccines demonstrates, China lags behind the world in most cutting-edge technologies. None of it has anything to do with the West. It's the choice of the Chinese people and the Chinese leadership.

 

[robd003]

Apple diversifying the supply chain away from China is ALWAYS a good thing.

 

[genovelle]

Politics 101 is to distract your voter base and blame your problems on a foreign country. Having a common foreign enemy gives power to politicians. China is an easy target due to prolonged media propaganda and historical anglo saxon racism towards the Chinese.

Is China causing you problems in real life? No. Hard-working Chinese people is the reason we have abundant affordable products in the western world. But when the Chinese want to move up the value chain so they can catch up in quality of life, the west is now suddenly saying they're all around an evil country that must be sanctioned.

The west is basically saying to China, "no, you can't design, produce, and sell advanced technology. You must stay as our cheap factory."

More like, you can’t gain access to high tech design by sneaking in the back door with companies they control and then use those designs to undermine our economy with copies or use our chip technology to build advanced weapons that could eventually be used against us. The current situation in Ukraine is a wake up call to those paying attention.

Unfortunately, we have a group of people with influence over 40% of the country whose goals are aligned with a foreign adversary who has been manipulating politics around the globe in an effort to extend his dictatorship across the globe by any means necessary. That can not be accomplished without the destruction of the US and by extension NATO.

 

[genovelle]

The biggest risk to Apple is it's over reliance on China for manufacturing. It is an existential threat to the company because business can shut shut down in a literal flash -- no pun intended. Strictly business. From a moral point of view, Apple should have begun moving away well over ten years ago and is now needlessly in a precarious position.

Easier said than done. When demand is growing at an uncontrollable pace each year and every country you start building in eats the additional supply,
Moving away is not possible. To build here would increase prices by 50-75 percent or more. Even then the supply chain needed to do so doesn’t exist. China has had 20 years to develop theirs, other Apple Competitors like Samsung produce most products there and such an increase would put Apple at an extreme competitive disadvantage. Imagine if the iPhone started off at $1099 to $1299 for the non pro models.