Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

citysnaps

macrumors G4
Oct 10, 2011
11,953
25,934
Thats what every western company thinks. There was a time when there were 10 American tv makers and they did not worry about the Japanese companies building low end knock offs. The car market was dominated by American companies who also did not take foreign competition seriously. Now we have China with faster super computers than the US, a stealth fighter almost like our F22, and a new aircraft carrier with electromagnetic catapults like our most advanced new carrier. In reality, Apple's edge has been fading on all fronts.

From the story: "For instance, instead of sending product- and assembly-related information from China to Cupertino for a decision, engineers in China would also include their analysis. And China-based engineers who in the past generally would have reported problems to Cupertino would instead send proposals for resolving the problem, the people said."

There are no trade secrets being divulged or passed on to competitors with respect to iPhone assembly. It's simply granting Chinese technicians and assemblers the power to resolve assembly related issues as they come up when setting up an assembly line, or assembly issues discovered while in production. Instead of involving a US-based Apple engineer to resolve the issue.

As any iPhone competitor can simply purchase an iPhone on the open market and then take it apart to see how it is assembled, which commodity parts are used, etc., there's nothing to worry about. There's nothing secret about that

The detailed design, special signal processing, design tricks/efficiences etc., of iPhone embedded in custom chips which is proprietary is not revealed.

Sure, a photolithomicrograph of chip dies might reveal something interesting after a ton of analysis and work. But again, simply purchasing an iPhone from the Apple Store, Best Buy, and a hundred other places, disassembling the phone and removing and de-lidding the chips, would give a competitor making photolithomicrographs of chip die the same information.
 

incoherent_1

macrumors 65816
Oct 19, 2016
1,160
2,221
You mean greater existential threat to a world controlled by white men?

The world was fine when China had by far the highest GDP in the world. It didn't go out and threaten the freedom/stability of lesser countries in Europe. It didn't enslave entire continents like colonialism did.

Chill out with the sinophobia.
First off, my family is half Chinese, and I live in Asia and you’re calling me sinophobic lol :D

So-called “woke” people who label any criticism of China as racist need to wake up. Totalitarianism knows no boundaries of race or creed.
 

technole

macrumors 6502a
Sep 22, 2017
631
724
Lockdown affected Apple employees from taking trips on that United SFO-PVG flight.
 

steve333

macrumors 65816
Dec 12, 2008
1,279
909
You're telling Apple to get out of China, and yet you don't have any suggestions where.

Apple sells around 200 million iPhones a year and about 20-25 million Macs. If Apple is to move to other locations those locations needs to support those numbers. They also need to support models changing every year, and big ramp ups and downs.

Or do you argue Apple should produce less iPhones and Macs?
What if China didn't open up, would Apple never have produced these products?
They can make them in India, Vietnam, plenty of other countries can get the capacity that China has but that which they didn't have before.
If you're aying that Apple can only produce products with slave labor then they should go out of business
 

steve333

macrumors 65816
Dec 12, 2008
1,279
909
Stop with the juvenile personal attacks.

Tell me how many iPhones India and Vietnam can manufacture/test/ship per day.
Did China have the capacity they have now previously? Do you think China is the only country capable of producing electronics?
China labor is cheap and mistreated, if Apple can only function in that environment then they shouldn't be in business
 

steve333

macrumors 65816
Dec 12, 2008
1,279
909
You mean greater existential threat to a world controlled by white men?

The world was fine when China had by far the highest GDP in the world. It didn't go out and threaten the freedom/stability of lesser countries in Europe. It didn't enslave entire continents like colonialism did.

Chill out with the sinophobia.
Guess we should hate Mongolia because of Ghengis Khan. Colonialism existed before the Europeans got in the act, so did slavery. Sorry to bust your all Caucasians are evil shtick.
 

citysnaps

macrumors G4
Oct 10, 2011
11,953
25,934
Did China have the capacity they have now previously? Do you think China is the only country capable of producing electronics?
China labor is cheap and mistreated, if Apple can only function in that environment then they shouldn't be in business

Previously? How far back? China's tech evolved over many decades with massive subsidies (many billions of dollars) by the Chinese government.

"China labor is cheap and mistreated, if Apple can only function in that environment then they shouldn't be in business"

Tell me about the Apple products you own.

Also...tell me about other tech/electronics that you own and where it was manufactured.
 

steve333

macrumors 65816
Dec 12, 2008
1,279
909
Previously? How far back? China's tech evolved over many decades with massive subsidies (many billions of dollars) by the Chinese government.

"China labor is cheap and mistreated, if Apple can only function in that environment then they shouldn't be in business"

Tell me about the Apple products you own.

Also...tell me about other tech/electronics that you own and where it was manufactured.
China was nothing then suddenly they were something. It took a massive effort and a lot of cash, but none of it happens without workers being forced into long hours for crap pay, many even sleeping where they work.
You find that to be something to praise and continue? That's your problem, not mine
 
  • Like
Reactions: Razorpit

citysnaps

macrumors G4
Oct 10, 2011
11,953
25,934
China was nothing then suddenly they were something. It took a massive effort and a lot of cash, but none of it happens without workers being forced into long hours for crap pay, many even sleeping where they work.
You find that to be something to praise and continue? That's your problem, not mine

You forgot to tell me about the Apple products you own. And other tech/electronics products from other manufacturers that are assembled/manufactured in China.
 

steve333

macrumors 65816
Dec 12, 2008
1,279
909
You forgot to tell me about the Apple products you own. And other tech/electronics products from other manufacturers that are assembled/manufactured in China.
We have no choice, pal. What point are you trying to make, that we shouldn't buy anything and sit in a bubble because companies make products in a Communist dictatorship because they want ever larger margins?
We fight back by complaining about the issue and speaking out against it, whereas people like you accept it so their favorite company can make ridiculous margins on products that are still overpriced compared to others.
 

citysnaps

macrumors G4
Oct 10, 2011
11,953
25,934
We have no choice, pal. What point are you trying to make, that we shouldn't buy anything and sit in a bubble because companies make products in a Communist dictatorship because they want ever larger margins?
We fight back by complaining about the issue and speaking out against it, whereas people like you accept it so their favorite company can make ridiculous margins on products that are still overpriced compared to others.

"We have no choice, pal"

"We fight back by complaining about the issue and speaking out against it, whereas people like you accept it so their favorite company can make ridiculous margins on products that are still overpriced compared to others."


Now that's a real knee-slapper. So-called fighting back yet purchasing products that not only prop-up, but propel and *grow* a system you're faux-fighting about. What a hoot!

Nope. Your actions do not match your level of (faux) moral outrage and haughtiness. That's hypocrisy at its finest. I know people who own zero goods manufactured in China. It's tough, but those who are *genuinely* committed do it.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: steve333

gregohb

macrumors regular
Aug 5, 2013
171
139
Los Angeles, CA, USA
Why? What has china ever done to you except making products more affordable for you?

They have stole trillions of dollars of intellectual property from my country. They have threatened to go to war with us, and have installed more and more ICBMs targeted at us. They have clearly stated their plans to dominate the world. They harvest organs, jail democracy activists, they imprison people based on their ethnicity or religion, they are seizing the entire ocean area down to the Philippines. The question should be, what do they have good to offer the world if anything at all.
 

gregohb

macrumors regular
Aug 5, 2013
171
139
Los Angeles, CA, USA
Uninformed western view.

China hasn't been a communist nation in a long time. It's not a dictatorship. It's a single-party state.
You are aware that the dictator Xi Jing Ping is supposed to step down this year, but is planning on remaining generalist for life, right? You are aware that democracy activists are jailed and die in jail - e.g. the Nobel prize laureate.
 

gregohb

macrumors regular
Aug 5, 2013
171
139
Los Angeles, CA, USA
China was nothing then suddenly they were something. It took a massive effort and a lot of cash, but none of it happens without workers being forced into long hours for crap pay, many even sleeping where they work.
You find that to be something to praise and continue? That's your problem, not mine
And trillions of dollars in IP theft. Christopher Wray, director of FBI has labeled China;s industrial espionage as larger than the rest of the world combined. Why design a J20 dragon from scratch when you can get the plans for the US f22? Every major US defense project has been hacked.
 

rme

macrumors 6502
Jul 19, 2008
292
436
How about they gtfo of China. Apple is all about virtue signaling when it comes to some issues, but when it comes to the genocide and issues in China they won't do **** because it hurts there bottom line. Same for most of corporate America. Get it out of China to other places and slowly start bringing some back to the West even if it costs some margin or higher prices.
You want to stop doing business/supporting Saudi-Arabia and the UAE as well? This is what their naval blockade of Yemen (that was supported by the US and UK) caused :
Hundreds of thousands of children have died like this.
Zero sanctions from Western governments.
In my opinion this is more evil than forced birth control and internment camps in Xinjiang
or the war in Ukraine.
 
Last edited:

rme

macrumors 6502
Jul 19, 2008
292
436
Let me guess, you didn't read the Johns Hopkins report on how none of the things we did helped contain the spread; masks, shutdowns all useless.
Ah yes. So because something doesn't work 100% of the time but only 90% or 50%... it's useless? No point in ever going to a doctor then. No guarantee they can cure you. Might as well self-medicate with ivermectin.
 
Last edited:

Razorpit

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2021
1,109
2,351
Yikes. Watch less Fox News.
So instead of addressing any of the points made, you took your time to assume what news organization @gregohb watches... ?

Ah yes. So because something doesn't work 100% of the time but only 90% or 50%... it's useless? No point in ever going to a doctor then. No guarantee they can cure you. Might as well self-medicate with ivermectin.
Go much lower than that. And when you look at what the repercussions are/were for what we did, in the grand scheme it caused more harm than good thereby making it useless.

And not that I generally discuss my medical history, but when I had COVID I was ready to take ivermectin. Read up on it, it's considerably safer than the clot shot and has decades of researchbehind it. (I know how a lot of you love "science".) Turns out since my "case" was nothing more than a bad flu and I didn't need to, but thanks for the advice. ?

During this whole thing I did things Fauci and our other "medical experts" did not say to do like; exercise, lose weight, take vitamin D, zinc, etc. In general, improve my health. Wonder why over the last 40 years Fauci and his team never bother to mention how important all of that is. Always comes down to "take this shot" EVERY TIME. ?

(You're being played. Wake up.)

So now that is all out of the way let's discuss how quickly China is able to come up with designs for their defense systems that are nearly identical to ours. And why giving them any IP is a bad idea, even for Apple.
 

rme

macrumors 6502
Jul 19, 2008
292
436
During this whole thing I did things Fauci and our other "medical experts" did not say to do like; exercise, lose weight, take vitamin D, zinc, etc. In general, improve my health. Wonder why over the last 40 years Fauci and his team never bother to mention how important all of that is. Always comes down to "take this shot" EVERY TIME. ?

(You're being played. Wake up.)

So now that is all out of the way let's discuss how quickly China is able to come up with designs for their defense systems that are nearly identical to ours. And why giving them any IP is a bad idea, even for Apple.

Won't get into the first part. You're clearly misreading the research. ;-)
Totally agree that not being overweight really helps if you get infected with covid.
The crisis would've have been nowhere near as bad if governments had enforced certified n95 masks/quarantine for people coming into the country/good mrna vaccines.
New Zealand had only 810 covid deaths (population : 5 million+) vs 177000 in the UK (population : 65 million)
 

cgsnipinva

macrumors 6502
Jan 29, 2013
494
446
Leesburg, VA
NZer here, we've lost control now during omicron and our covid death toll is 812 people over the last two years. That compared to 1 million deaths in the U.S.A. Losing control later when vaccination rates are the biggest contributing factor so the last two years were not in vain. We have a similar population and big outbreak timeline to Hong Kong but their death toll is 10x higher because of low vaccination rates.

Well as the CDC recently reported - about 40% of those deaths had nothing to do with COVID they included people they assumed died from covid including gunshot deaths and car accidents and people who did WITH Covid and not because of it. So the stats are bit -well - crap. Second - most of the deaths could be attributed to the fact in the US we had not treatment protocol (no HQC, Ivermectin allowed) and political restriction of monoclonal antibodies. Here they basically said - wait until you cannot breathe then come to the emergency room. Then we will stick a tube down your throat.

I had COVID twice no issues. I got monoclonal antibody treatment and had a mild case. First case I took nothing and it was like the flu.

And on the vaccine - the latest data dump from Pfizer and Moderna show efficacy rates of 12% that declines from there in one week. And now we are finding vaccinated people get sicker on subsequent infections and we have a rash of childhood hepatitus now being linked to the vaccine.

And this is the data they wanted locked up for 75 years.
 
  • Love
Reactions: Razorpit

BaldiMac

macrumors G3
Jan 24, 2008
8,795
10,933
Well as the CDC recently reported - about 40% of those deaths had nothing to do with COVID they included people they assumed died from covid including gunshot deaths and car accidents and people who did WITH Covid and not because of it.
That's simply not true.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.