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mrhick01

macrumors 6502
Sep 22, 2008
497
329
I don't know about that, this only means there is still racism issue in USA that needs to be fixed but favouring one group of people over the others won't fix it. I am sure of that.
It's the only practical way to correct for the generations of intentional favoring of one group of people over another.

Let's be honest.

"Go and sin no more" declarations of "equal opportunity" doesn't correct the problems of America's sins. The consistent denial of and failure to address this fundamental American problem has haunted this nation since its founding, and the compromises that was made with slaveholders to create the "United States."

Moreover, it doesn't mean that America's historically favored are being explicitly excluded. What Apple's initiative represents is a focused effort to diversify the landscape of competition in the technology innovation industries.

The fact that you, or even your parents, weren't the one to do this to this population of American citizens is irrelevant. If you are an American citizen, you must recognize that this is a national problem that has to be addressed responsibly and with justice, and not just left to "the blacks" to figure out, shaming and blaming this group for generational problems imposed by the very American sins that the criticizers love to deny/dismiss and feign willful ignorance.

Apple is working to be intentional in going to colleges that predominantly educate populations of Americans who have provably been systematically denied opportunity in that very industry, and making investments in mentoring, education, and developing more American tech talent and capability. It is an extension to provide an expansion of opportunity in the United States.

The complaining and concern-trolling in this thread appears to make this memetic quote prove true:

"When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."
 
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The1andOnly

macrumors regular
Aug 2, 2020
162
93
I know it might contradict some people's worldview, but you don't have to be minority to be discriminated.
Quite right!

please stop lumping the actions of extremist with peaceful people.
GREAT idea! If this is to apply to BLM/Antifa, then it ought to apply to Jan. 6th’s “insurrection”.

Moreover, it doesn't mean that America's historically favored are being explicitly excluded.
Maybe not specifically regarding Apple’s current effort, but in general, yes, it does. “Affirmative Action” is racism.
 

redcaptrickster

Suspended
Nov 27, 2020
185
351
know it might contradict some people's worldview, but you don't have to be minority to be discriminated.
Case in point: The Irish and Italians emigrating to America in the early part of the last century. My grandfather used to tell us horrific stories about how he was treated when he first came to America from Italy.
 

mrhick01

macrumors 6502
Sep 22, 2008
497
329
Affirmative action, while imperfect, corrects for the effects of racism. It is only "racism" in the minds of those who've never had to worry or endure being the burden-bearers of bottom caste status.

Just because you didn't directly do it doesn't mean it didn't happen, nor does it mean that you are absolved of responsibility to address said problem.

Moreover, the Irish and Italians were treated awfully at times as new immigrants to this nation...but these ethnic groups were granted whiteness via a tried-and-true American method: recognizing and enforcing a strict, rigid racial hierarchy that pushed Black Americans descended from slavery at the absolute bottom caste. Irish and Italians weren't multigenerationally enslaved in the United States as chattel either and systematically denied the vote until 55 years ago.

So please, let's stop it. All of this over a modest investment and intention from Apple? Does that scare you that much, to compete 5-10 years from now with a greater array of tech talent and acumen?
 
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MacBH928

macrumors G3
May 17, 2008
8,359
3,739
Apple's initiative represents is a focused effort to diversify the landscape of competition in the technology innovation industries.

The complaining and concern-trolling in this thread appears to make this memetic quote prove true:

"When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."

Why even diversify? Diversifying means that you do categorise people on different races and backgrounds. Isn't this the exact thing we are fighting? To make race null and judge people based on who they are and not the the background they come from? If all Americans are equal, why do we have 50-50 mix of white and black? or whatever else. It shouldn't matter what race you belong to in the first place. Once you start categorising people by race you fall in the racism pit.
 

mrhick01

macrumors 6502
Sep 22, 2008
497
329
Why even diversify? Diversifying means that you do categorise people on different races and backgrounds. Isn't this the exact thing we are fighting? To make race null and judge people based on who they are and not the the background they come from? If all Americans are equal, why do we have 50-50 mix of white and black? or whatever else. It shouldn't matter what race you belong to in the first place. Once you start categorising people by race you fall in the racism pit.

That's easy for you to say.

No, we are not fighting to make race null. We are fighting to repair the ravages of racist treatment so that "race" used as a means of assessing superiority/inferiority ends in the United States.

At least as far as hiring, education, treatment, being allowed to live as a human being, much less an American citizen.
 
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The1andOnly

macrumors regular
Aug 2, 2020
162
93
That's easy for you to say.

No, we are not fighting to make race null. We are fighting to repair the ravages of racist treatment so that "race" used as a means of assessing superiority/inferiority ends in the United States.

At least as far as hiring, education, treatment, being allowed to live as human being, much less an American citizen.
Well, at least I understand where you are coming from now. You don’t want equality; you want payback.
 

mrhick01

macrumors 6502
Sep 22, 2008
497
329
Well, at least I understand where you are coming from now. You don’t want equality; you want payback.
I, and millions of others of my ethnicity, want justice. You make it sound like revenge. It isn't. Your, and some others in this thread, apparent stance of taking personal offense is revealing. And unfortunate.

It's not a "handout" when it is a step for a larger debt owed, not that Apple themselves are obligated to pay it (by themselves).

As a corporate citizen, however, they are compelled to do a part that allows equality of opportunity to be actualized and provide access for a generation of newly trained young Americans for Silicon Valley. Ultimately, prospective students will have to be properly educated for and developed to be qualified and competitive for these opportunities.

I assert that it is a wonderful thing. How can it be equality when this population of American citizens are underserved, and their colleges underfunded and underfinanced compared to predominantly white institutions (PWIs)? No longer having the ability to explicitly exclude Black Americans (and I am referring to those who attend HBCUs) does not even the playing field.
 

mrhick01

macrumors 6502
Sep 22, 2008
497
329
To all those who disagree, it comes down to this:

I watched a YouTube clip of the Joe Rogan podcast with guests comedians Donnell Rawlings and eventually, Dave Chappelle.

Rawlings provided a great metaphor (concerning his ability to cook) that also can describe this new Apple HBCU initiative. Black students (overwhelmingly Americans from descendants of chattel slavery) from these HBCUs are like people who have a recipe for success/a professional career/real access to "the American Dream" (a college education, more open opportunity by law), but not the ingredients (mentoring, connections, professional advice, support).

This initiative is an effort of Apple providing ingredients to a population of people that don't have them. There may be folk who continue to not like that, however it is the truth. The abatement of injustice and maldevelopment is not justice. The provision of outreach and access is not cruelty to others.
 
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Karma*Police

macrumors 68030
Jul 15, 2012
2,523
2,869
With all due respect, this is a poor understanding of King. A horrible, reductive read of Dr. King's advocacy via nonviolent confrontation. King also said "...we're going to march to Washington, and we're coming to get our check."

As a minority, you are likely an immigrant to this nation, your family having come to America as the land of opportunity by choice. This outreach is targeted to, predominantly, the group of American citizens whose ancestors did not come here by choice, they were delivered in the hulls of ships and denied not only opportunity, but humanity for generations.

This is program that will target HBCUs (and, with respect, if you do not understand why HBCUs exist and how they came into existence, the lack of American historical understanding makes what I say near-impossible to process) to mentor and develop bright young people to ultimately expand America's talent pool in tech.

Here's a reality that you may not know: if you are a Black American who is a descendant of American slavery, the last 50+ years have provided the opportunity to get an education, but not necessarily the connections and relationships that allow someone from this group to matriculate and thrive.

A lot of folks love Sowell, because he is only one of a handful of intellectuals that will say what those same folk want to hear.

Here's another consideration: this outreach has NOTHING to do with skin color, it's only an indicator which triggers someone's empathy or their resentment or even rage, YMMV. It has to do with lineage and how that lineage and subsequent generational treatment stacked disadvantage writ-large. Apple isn't engaging in HBCU outreach just because the students are black, the outreach exists because of the deficits created over generations and understanding the need to narrow those gaps and expand the tech talent pool.

"Diversity" is a friendly catch-all word that allows America's majority population to better compartmentalize a multitude of human beings with lineages, experiences, challenges, problems, etc. into a more convenient mnemonic for understanding, but it's so useless.

What's wrong about being intentional about seeking and cultivating more tech talent? Ultimately, this is what makes a nation stronger and more competitive globally. It is these efforts that move the United States closer to A More Perfect Union.

The original America never intended to have a nation that looks like this. However, Apple as a private sector citizen will use a tiny slice of their vast financial warchest to expand American talent pools. Win-win-win.
A lot of folks love Sowell and other black conservatives because they base their opinions on facts, not feelings. When he was asked what made him change from a Marxist to a conservative, his reply was, the facts. I've yet to hear convincing counter-arguments from the other side based on facts, your post included.

As for Apple's program, this is from their own website: venture capital funding for Black and Brown entrepreneurs. I'd say that's pretty discriminatory based on skin color.

I agree completely about diversity... people should stop focusing on it and just hire the best individuals. Any other approach would be a form of bigotry.

Sure, Apple can do whatever they want with their money. They're free to give money to white supremacists... it's their right. But it doesn't make it right.
 

redcaptrickster

Suspended
Nov 27, 2020
185
351
A lot of folks love Sowell and other black conservatives because they base their opinions on facts, not feelings. When he was asked what made him change from a Marxist to a conservative, his reply was, the facts. I've yet to hear convincing counter-arguments from the other side based on facts, your post included.
These days, the problem with social media and all its tentacles is that people think their opinion is worth as much as someone else’s facts. Until they absolve themselves from that notion, you're never going to hear a convincing argument.
 

mrhick01

macrumors 6502
Sep 22, 2008
497
329
These days, the problem with social media and all its tentacles is that people think their opinion is worth as much as someone else’s facts. Until they absolve themselves from that notion, you're never going to hear a convincing argument.
Here's some facts: Harvard, America's oldest college, has an endowment in the neighborhood of $35 billion, give or take.

The endowments of the 101 Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCUs) have a combined endowment of $2 billion, with Howard University having the largest at $600 million.

HBCUs graduate significant percentages of the numbers of Black Americans in several critical industries. However the severe disparities in funding and capitalization place them at a disadvantage. The glaring facts that it has only been 55 years since Black Americans were guaranteed equal protection under the law (which has nothing to do with my feelings, although if you ask, outrages me) means a shorter window of time to establish connections, relationships, networking etc. that provide pathways to maximize success.

Black Americans lack these relative resources because despite being 13-14% of America's population, Black American families and households possess less than 3 percent of America's wealth. This is not a result of the collective indolence and inferiority of a people, this is a result of targeted treatment and policy. Again, these are not my feelings, these are material facts. With the respect that I can muster for these arguments, please do not reduce my range of knowledge on these realities to racial whining and crying for handouts. It is insulting.

Given these material realities, Apple has chosen to be proactive with an outreach program for the material purpose of creating new potential networks, including mentoring, education assistance and institutional development so that institutions as well as these students are better capable for competing, and contributing, to the technology needs and innovations of the world for generations ahead.
 
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redcaptrickster

Suspended
Nov 27, 2020
185
351
Here's some facts: Harvard, America's oldest college, has an endowment in the neighborhood of $35 billion, give or take.

The endowments of the 101 Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCUs) have a combined endowment of $2 billion, with Howard University having the largest at $600 million.

HBCUs graduate significant percentages of the numbers of Black Americans in several critical industries. However the severe disparities in funding and capitalization place them at a disadvantage. The glaring facts that it has only been 55 years since Black Americans were guaranteed equal protection under the law (which has nothing to do with my feelings, although if you ask, outrages me) means a shorter window of time to establish connections, relationships, networking etc. that provide pathways to maximize success.

Black Americans lack these relative resources because despite being 13-14% of America's population, Black American families and households possess less than 3 percent of America's wealth. This is not a result of the collective indolence and inferiority of a people, this is a result of targeted treatment and policy. Again, these are not my feelings, these are material facts. With the respect that I can muster for these arguments, please do not reduce my range of knowledge on these realities to racial whining and crying for handouts. It is insulting.

Given these material realities, Apple has chosen to be proactive with an outreach program for the material purpose of creating new potential networks, including mentoring, education assistance and institutional development so that institutions as well as these students are better capable for competing, and contributing, to the technology needs and innovations of the world for generations ahead.
OK, but I think you should be responding to @Karma*Police. I don't give a ****.

My response was about what s/he said.
 

clueless88

macrumors regular
Aug 23, 2020
240
149
Social programs such as Aid to Dependent Children have for decades perpetuated the single mother household by withholding aid to families in need that have a father and a mother--only single mothers can obtain this federally provided aid. One of the biggest predictors of future poverty, early education drop out/poor performance, likelihood of criminal activities, drug and alcohol abuse is the single mother household dependent on government aid. This is NOT a racial issue--this has been seen in the poor black as well as poor white communities in the US, as well as the poor white communities of Great Britain--generation after generation of people stuck in poverty despite receiving financial aid (welfare) from their government.

Simply giving money to people to even the playing field does not affect the overall disparity. Two parent households for the most part have a greater probability of moving themselves up economically--it is indeed tough for single parents to provide financially as well as be involved in their childrens' lives. Handing money to those in need is indeed noble and is much easier than trying to figure out how to get people on the track to prosperity. It is foolish to try to treat the symptoms without also trying to address the cause of the problem.
 

G5isAlive

Contributor
Aug 28, 2003
2,654
4,606
BLM has nothing to do with race, it was a radical left group that wants to defund the police and claim anything white on black is racist, where is the prove George flyod died because of a racist cop, it does happen to white people as well, not everything is racist

Yep and the evil Democrat cabal is out there starting forest fires with lasers in orbit. BLM is about equality and the fact that bad things happen to white people too is not the issue, it is the rate that they happen. You can deny racism but it exists and as long as you continue to deny there will be a need for BLM.
 
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