Apple Making It Easier For Customers to Donate to Those in Need in Ukraine

[hagar]

Apple is totally disingenuous on CSAM, instead of scanning iCloud Photos on private devices, they could more ethically and effectively implement CSAM of iCloud Photos stored on their own servers. They can legitimately claim they want to police their own servers for illegal content, and it would have the same effect, instead of doing the creepy, sneaky user device monitoring scheme.

A less ideal solution: Apple could also, using CSAM data, block child pornography from displaying on any operating systems across their platform. This is similar to what Adobe does for counterfeiting controls where scans of cash bills won't display correctly. This is also built into scanner and printer hardware by various manufacturers. While this scheme could also be exploited by suspect governments and entities, it doesn't turn Apple into the same kind of intrusive creepy content police of users' personal devices, nor have the same dire ramifications with the absolute certain abuse of CSAM.

I assume Apple is smart enough to know there were several better ways to tackle this problem if they must, but they deliberately chose the absolute worst option.

I wonder why?
Lack of vision? Sad and depressing.
Stupidity thru ego? Kinda where I'm leaning.
Compromised? Paging Alex Jones to the conspiracy desk.

Are we still on that? Apple’s implementation of CSAM was deliberately designed with privacy in mind. They didn’t do server side scanning for this exact reason: privacy. Just like all other analysis of photos for face and object recognition are all done client side on the iPhone itself. While other companies like Google do this server side to obtain as much data as possible.

The thing that backfired is that client-side face scanning sounds good and privacy friendly while client-side SCAM scanning sounds creepy. But whatever way you look at it: you either trust the company or you don’t.

 

[A MacBook lover]

Are we still on that? Apple’s implementation of CSAM was deliberately designed with privacy in mind. They didn’t do server side scanning for this exact reason: privacy. Just like all other analysis of photos for face and object recognition are all done client side on the iPhone itself. While other companies like Google do this server side to obtain as much data as possible.

The thing that backfired is that client-side face scanning sounds good and privacy friendly while client-side SCAM scanning sounds creepy. But whatever way you look at it: you either trust the company or you don’t.

What?

How does on-device scanning make it private? Why can’t they scan it on iCloud?

I don’t trust the company. Nobody wants this crap.

 

[hagar]

What?

How does on-device scanning make it private? Why can’t they scan it on iCloud?

I don’t trust the company. Nobody wants this crap.

Because if it’s on-device no data has to leave the device. That’s why Apple chose face and object scanning to be on device, even back when computational power was still limited on devices. And that’s why your device gets hot the first few days after a new installation: all photos must be rescanned. Apple didn’t even want to sync the metadata to your other devices, so the scan has to be redone on each device you add. The same principle applies to CSAM scanning. Your photos are never accessed in the cloud.

Still, Apple would have done itself a huge favour if it first announced full encrypted iCloud storage. Because now we have to take their word for it.

 

[philrock]

Almost like their beliefs vary depending in the market they are in.

Yes, this is exactly right. If Apple (or any business) wants to do business in foreign countries, they are subject to the laws of that country. Sometimes the laws allow alignment with personal and corporate values, sometimes not. If there is profit to be made though, that is the path they must choose in most cases. Less than half of the countries of the world are considered free...think of all the restrictions we have in our "free" country.

 

[the8thark]

There is no right to privacy for CSAM.

There is a right for due process to happen though. Things like search warrants literally exist so over zealous law enforcement organisations still follow the law when investigating various alleged crimes.

Apple is not the law or law enforcement. Sure Apple can assist law enforcement but they can not take over their job. CSAM tries to do this and that is why it had so much public backlash.

 

[I7guy]

There is a right for due process to happen though. Things like search warrants literally exist so over zealous law enforcement organisations still follow the law when investigating various alleged crimes.

Apple is not the law or law enforcement. Sure Apple can assist law enforcement but they can not take over their job. CSAM tries to do this and that is why it had so much public backlash.

It seems what Apple is doing with CSAM scanning is legal, if not well liked. There is no due process. Now maybe a class action lawsuit or two could come out of this, when it finally goes live. However, there doesn't seem to be due process only due diligence on the part of the customer to ditch their Apple gear, if they do not like CSAM scanning.

Be that as it may...it seems like it's coming.

 

[ouimetnick]

Why do you want Apple to become the world’s police? They are a commercial company bound by the legislation of the countries they operate in. If they pull out of a country, they have zero leverage and their position is taken by another company.

According to you Apple should pull out of all markets in countries infringing on freedom of speech and gay rights, racial injustice, … that’s unfortunately the entire world.

That is correct. Tim Cock should either put up or shut the **** up. Don’t go around preaching one thing and doing another. Keep quiet like your predecessor did and quit the virtue signaling. I don’t see the CEO of Sonos, Nintendo, Sony, Panasonic, Daimler Benz, Dell, HP, Lenovo, LG, Samsung, etc preaching about how privacy is a fundamental human right or making pride rainbow colored products. They keep quiet and focus on the business. Cook should do the same if he doesn’t want to be a hypocrite.

 

[I7guy]

That is correct. Tim Cock should either put up or shut the **** up. Don’t go around preaching one thing and doing another. Keep quiet like your predecessor did and quit the virtue signaling. I don’t see the CEO of Sonos, Nintendo, Sony, Panasonic, Daimler Benz, Dell, HP, Lenovo, LG, Samsung, etc preaching about how privacy is a fundamental human right or making pride rainbow colored products. They keep quiet and focus on the business. Cook should do the same if he doesn’t want to be a hypocrite.

Mr. Cook is not a hypocrite and he is clearly entitled to give his opinion. People will either identify with that opinion or not. The CEOs of Sonos, Nintendo, Sony, Panasonic, etc. may not have the guts to put an opinion forth to the world. Apple does what it can with what it has to work with and is not pulling out of countries that you believe they should pull out of. Horses for courses.

 

[mrr]

Thank you Apple. Everything helps.

 

[ouimetnick]

Mr. Cook is not a hypocrite and he is clearly entitled to give his opinion. People will either identify with that opinion or not. The CEOs of Sonos, Nintendo, Sony, Panasonic, etc. may not have the guts to put an opinion forth to the world. Apple does what it can with what it has to work with and is not pulling out of countries that you believe they should pull out of. Horses for courses.

I'm curious to know what you believe the definition of a hypocrite is? Apple's own dictionary app states

a person who indulges in hypocrisy

Well what is hypocrisy?

the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense

Well if we look at Cook claiming that privacy is a fundamental right, or that he supports gays (he is gay, directed his company to support gay causes, sells gay watch bands, etc) yet he supports China and Russia where the right to privacy doesn't exist, and gay people don't exist in Russia (not for long anyways), that means that Cook's behavior doesn't confirm to his alleged moral standards.

You can argue that he's doing his job as CEO, and he most certainly is, but it doesn't absolve him of being a hypocrite. He could have directed Apple to withdraw from the Russian market after the illegal annexation of Crimea in 2014. He could simply not offer iCloud or the App Store in China. iPhone existed before iCloud was a thing and even a year before the App Store. He would most definitely be fired by Apple's board of directors for standing up for his beliefs, but he would be sticking to his values. He doesn't need the job or the money. You say that Cook is entitled to his opinion (we all are) but his actions differ from his opinions. Is it really true that "The CEOs of Sonos, Nintendo, Sony, Panasonic, etc. may not have the guts to put an opinion forth to the world", or is it because they keep their political opinions separate from their duties as CEO? Steve Jobs rarely got political during his time at Apple.

I will give credit where it's due. Cook preached about being environmentally responsible, and under his leadership, Apple now uses recycled tin in their solder, recycled aluminum in the enclosures, significantly smaller packaging, eliminating plastic wrap on new products, and getting rid of redundant accessories like chargers and earphones (last two were for cost cutting, but it benefits the environment, so I'm for it!) This is where his standards conformed to his moral standards or beliefs.

 

[I7guy]

I'm curious to know what you believe the definition of a hypocrite is? Apple's own dictionary app states



Well what is hypocrisy?



Well if we look at Cook claiming that privacy is a fundamental right, or that he supports gays (he is gay, directed his company to support gay causes, sells gay watch bands, etc) yet he supports China and Russia where the right to privacy doesn't exist, and gay people don't exist in Russia (not for long anyways), that means that Cook's behavior doesn't confirm to his alleged moral standards.

You can argue that he's doing his job as CEO, and he most certainly is, but it doesn't absolve him of being a hypocrite. He could have directed Apple to withdraw from the Russian market after the illegal annexation of Crimea in 2014. He could simply not offer iCloud or the App Store in China. iPhone existed before iCloud was a thing and even a year before the App Store. He would most definitely be fired by Apple's board of directors for standing up for his beliefs, but he would be sticking to his values. He doesn't need the job or the money. You say that Cook is entitled to his opinion (we all are) but his actions differ from his opinions. Is it really true that "The CEOs of Sonos, Nintendo, Sony, Panasonic, etc. may not have the guts to put an opinion forth to the world", or is it because they keep their political opinions separate from their duties as CEO? Steve Jobs rarely got political during his time at Apple.

I will give credit where it's due. Cook preached about being environmentally responsible, and under his leadership, Apple now uses recycled tin in their solder, recycled aluminum in the enclosures, significantly smaller packaging, eliminating plastic wrap on new products, and getting rid of redundant accessories like chargers and earphones (last two were for cost cutting, but it benefits the environment, so I'm for it!) This is where his standards conformed to his moral standards or beliefs.

Following local laws does not make one a hypocrite. I have understand you believe he’s a hypocrite…that’s what matters, in your opinion. Hypocrisy is like innovation. There’s a sliding definition of both.

 

[ouimetnick]

Following local laws does not make one a hypocrite. I have understand you believe he’s a hypocrite…that’s what matters, in your opinion. Hypocrisy is like innovation. There’s a sliding definition of both.

Cook/Apple don't have to follow local laws in Russia if they aren't operating there. They can also ignore local laws/rules and pay fines like they are already doing.

Apple Fined Another €5 Million Over Dating Apps as Dutch Regulators Say Apple Has 'Refused to Put Forward Any Serious Proposals'

Dutch regulators have levied another fine of €5 million against Apple in a continued dispute over alternative payment systems for dating apps....

www.macrumors.com

 

[VulchR]

There is no right to privacy for CSAM.

Completely missing the point at so many levels...

 

[cupcakes2000]

I'm curious to know what you believe the definition of a hypocrite is? Apple's own dictionary app states



Well what is hypocrisy?



Well if we look at Cook claiming that privacy is a fundamental right, or that he supports gays (he is gay, directed his company to support gay causes, sells gay watch bands, etc) yet he supports China and Russia where the right to privacy doesn't exist, and gay people don't exist in Russia (not for long anyways), that means that Cook's behavior doesn't confirm to his alleged moral standards.

You can argue that he's doing his job as CEO, and he most certainly is, but it doesn't absolve him of being a hypocrite. He could have directed Apple to withdraw from the Russian market after the illegal annexation of Crimea in 2014. He could simply not offer iCloud or the App Store in China. iPhone existed before iCloud was a thing and even a year before the App Store. He would most definitely be fired by Apple's board of directors for standing up for his beliefs, but he would be sticking to his values. He doesn't need the job or the money. You say that Cook is entitled to his opinion (we all are) but his actions differ from his opinions. Is it really true that "The CEOs of Sonos, Nintendo, Sony, Panasonic, etc. may not have the guts to put an opinion forth to the world", or is it because they keep their political opinions separate from their duties as CEO? Steve Jobs rarely got political during his time at Apple.

I will give credit where it's due. Cook preached about being environmentally responsible, and under his leadership, Apple now uses recycled tin in their solder, recycled aluminum in the enclosures, significantly smaller packaging, eliminating plastic wrap on new products, and getting rid of redundant accessories like chargers and earphones (last two were for cost cutting, but it benefits the environment, so I'm for it!) This is where his standards conformed to his moral standards or beliefs.

What on earth is a ‘gay watch band’?

 

[ouimetnick]

What on earth is a ‘gay watch band’?

$99 fabric band

 

[I7guy]

Completely missing the point at so many levels...

Nope…

 

[I7guy]

Cook/Apple don't have to follow local laws in Russia if they aren't operating there. They can also ignore local laws/rules and pay fines like they are already doing.

Apple Fined Another €5 Million Over Dating Apps as Dutch Regulators Say Apple Has 'Refused to Put Forward Any Serious Proposals'

Dutch regulators have levied another fine of €5 million against Apple in a continued dispute over alternative payment systems for dating apps....

www.macrumors.com

Sure and in the Netherlands apple doesn’t have to follow local laws if they aren’t operating there. Apple and other companies will continue to operate in Russia, China and follow local laws. (And being there doesn’t make any ceo a hypocrite whether they made public statements or not) I encourage you to read the entire thread of the thread you linked to understand the issues and not the headliner.

 

[ouimetnick]

Nope…

I encourage you to read up on Apple’s CSAM system. It appears you do not have a full understanding on how Apple’s implementation works.

Sure and in the Netherlands apple doesn’t have to follow local laws if they aren’t operating there. Apple and other companies will continue to operate in Russia, China and follow local laws. (And being there doesn’t make any ceo a hypocrite whether they made public statements or not) I encourage you to read the entire thread of the thread you linked to understand the issues and not the headliner.

I have read the article, not just the headline. I think you are confused. Apple does have to follow the local laws in the Netherlands since they are operating there. Again, I encourage you to read a dictionary (the one on your Mac works fine) to get a better understanding of what a hypocrite is. The dictionary definition of hypocrisy appears to differ than your own definition. Making public statements and acting contrary to those statements does in fact make one a hypocrite. In fact it’s what politicians do best. Tim Cook is doing excellent in that regard. I’m not sure why you are so eager to defend Tim Cook. Is he a friend or family member?

 

[I7guy]

I encourage you to read up on Apple’s CSAM system. It appears you do not have a full understanding on how Apple’s implementation works.


I have read the article, not just the headline. I think you are confused. Apple does have to follow the local laws in the Netherlands since they are operating there. Again, I encourage you to read a dictionary (the one on your Mac works fine) to get a better understanding of what a hypocrite is. The dictionary definition of hypocrisy appears to differ than your own definition. Making public statements and acting contrary to those statements does in fact make one a hypocrite. In fact it’s what politicians do best. Tim Cook is doing excellent in that regard. I’m not sure why you are so eager to defend Tim Cook. Is he a friend or family member?

Some key takeaways from the above:

• I believe you do not have a full understand of CSAM scanning
• I believe you still have confusion about the bill in the Netherlands as Apple is following the laws and is appealing
• IMO, you have some confusion about what it really means to be a hypocrite and while you are within your rights to have an opinion that Tim Cook is a hypocrite, I disagree
• Tim Cook is an excellent CEO, but not a politician. If he were Ted Cruz would have listened to him.
• I'm not sure why you are so eager to criticize Tim Cook. Did he do wrong to a friend of yours or family member?

And the most important point is that you should be giving a hat tip toward Tim Cook for providing an easy pathway for the giving of your choice and additionally for Apple matching donations. Thankfully posts that I quoted get lost in the internet as a grain of sand at the beach in the wind.

 

[ouimetnick]

Some key takeaways from the above:

• Don't think you fully understand CSAM scanning
• I believe you still have confusion about the bill in the Netherlands as Apple is following the laws and is appealing
• IMO, you have some confusion about what it really means to be a hypocrite and while you are within your rights to have an opinion that Tim Cook is a hypocrite, I disagree
• Tim Cook is an excellent CEO, but not a politician. If he were Ted Cruz would have listened to him.

I fully understand CSAM and while I don’t have any issue with it personally, it does go against the so called “what happens on iPhone stays on iPhone” marketing.

What is your definition of a hypocrite? I don’t have an opinion that Tim Cook is a hypocrite, it’s simply a fact. One with basic understanding of the English language can read a dictionary and read Tim Cook’s statements and see his actions and see that his actions run contrary to his statements.

What is a hypocrite in your definition? And why are you so focused on defending him? Again, is he a family members or friend? I agree he is an excellent CEO, my parents are thrilled with his performance (they own a bunch of AAPL stock). An excellent CEO can still be a hypocrite though.

 

[I7guy]

I fully understand CSAM and while I don’t have any issue with it personally, it does go against the so called “what happens on iPhone stays on iPhone” marketing.

What is your definition of a hypocrite? I don’t have an opinion that Tim Cook is a hypocrite, it’s simply a fact. One with basic understanding of the English language can read a dictionary and read Tim Cook’s statements and see his actions and see that his actions run contrary to his statements.

What is a hypocrite in your definition? And why are you so focused on defending him? Again, is he a family members or friend? I agree he is an excellent CEO, my parents are thrilled with his performance (they own a bunch of AAPL stock). An excellent CEO can still be a hypocrite though.

I dont believe you understand the difference between a marketing slogan and statement of fact; which is where all of this confusion is.

“What happened in your iPhone ..etc” is a slogan because as a statement of fact it’s false. (Ie cell to tower communications).

Similarly “privacy is a fundamental right” is a slogan. Because the US government may violate your privacy rights doesn’t render this slogan incorrect or make anyone a hypocrite.

 

[ouimetnick]

I dont believe you understand the difference between a marketing slogan and statement of fact; which is where all of this confusion is.

“What happened in your iPhone ..etc” is a slogan because as a statement of fact it’s false. (Ie cell to tower communications).

Similarly “privacy is a fundamental right” is a slogan. Because the US government may violate your privacy rights doesn’t render this slogan incorrect or make anyone a hypocrite.

“We believe privacy is a fundamental human right” is something that came out of Cook’s mouth. Unless the US government is forcing Apple to implement this CSAM technology and Apple is under a gag order, this is Apple deciding to implement it because they wish to do so.

However Cook saying those things and still willing to do business with China, Russia and any other company that has a poor privacy track record does make him a hypocrite. If he truly cared, he wouldn’t be conducting business there- again, he’d be fired for doing that, but he would be standing up for his beliefs. He’s in bed with the CCP.

Apple CEO Tim Cook 'Secretly' Signed $275 Billion Deal With China in 2016

Apple CEO Tim Cook "secretly" signed an agreement worth more than $275 billion with Chinese officials, promising that Apple would help to...

www.macrumors.com

 

[hagar]

That is correct. Tim Cock should either put up or shut the **** up. Don’t go around preaching one thing and doing another. Keep quiet like your predecessor did and quit the virtue signaling. I don’t see the CEO of Sonos, Nintendo, Sony, Panasonic, Daimler Benz, Dell, HP, Lenovo, LG, Samsung, etc preaching about how privacy is a fundamental human right or making pride rainbow colored products. They keep quiet and focus on the business. Cook should do the same if he doesn’t want to be a hypocrite.

That doesn’t make any sense. It’s not like he is advocating for some weird controversial stuff. Why shouldn’t he speak up about LGBTQ rights, racism or privacy?

The only thing you should be upset about is that it’s still very necessary to speak up about these topics.

As the gay CEO of a privacy oriented company located in a deeply racist country, he has every right to talk about these things and set up programs and launch services and products around them.

Go Tim!

 

[I7guy]

“We believe privacy is a fundamental human right” is something that came out of Cook’s mouth. Unless the US government is forcing Apple to implement this CSAM technology and Apple is under a gag order, this is Apple deciding to implement it because they wish to do so.

However Cook saying those things and still willing to do business with China, Russia and any other company that has a poor privacy track record does make him a hypocrite. If he truly cared, he wouldn’t be conducting business there- again, he’d be fired for doing that, but he would be standing up for his beliefs. He’s in bed with the CCP.
[...]

Sure and because he believes it, doesn't make him a hypocrite when it doesn't happen. "Honest and above board law enforcement is a fundemental human right." There I said it, Are you going to call me a hypocrite?

So as my opinion goes, I do not believe Tim Cook is a hypocrite...however, you are certainly welcome to an opposite opinion.

 

[ouimetnick]

Sure and because he believes it, doesn't make him a hypocrite when it doesn't happen. "Honest and above board law enforcement is a fundemental human right." There I said it, Are you going to call me a hypocrite?

So as my opinion goes, I do not believe Tim Cook is a hypocrite...however, you are certainly welcome to an opposite opinion.

Are you in charge of a police department with bad cops?