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4jasontv

Suspended
Jul 31, 2011
6,272
7,548
Ahh yes, let's keep worrying about what if's and possible variants...the rest of the world is ready for normalcy. Just like the Spanish Flu, it still exists, but it's endemic and we have gone back to normal.
No - we didn't go back to normal. We learned from it and made changes. Why do people think that 2019 was normal?
 

wigby

macrumors 68030
Jun 7, 2007
2,774
2,761
Because you have to be either of those things to interpret data and risk? This is such a tired argument lol.
What's the point of elected or appointed experts if regular folks can "interpret" the data themselves to fulfill their own confirmation bias? Politics always get involved but that doesn't excuse people and politicians who reject expert guidance for their own convenience or political position. And there were some confusing and contradictory statements coming from the CDC but again, I followed the guidance and the law. It wasn't too hard and didn't require me to do my own research because I had the best scientists and doctors already on the case for me.
 

miniyou64

macrumors 6502a
Jul 8, 2008
749
2,690
What's the point of elected or appointed experts if regular folks can "interpret" the data themselves to fulfill their own confirmation bias? Politics always get involved but that doesn't excuse people and politicians who reject expert guidance for their own convenience or political position. And there were some confusing and contradictory statements coming from the CDC but again, I followed the guidance and the law. It wasn't too hard and didn't require me to do my own research because I had the best scientists and doctors already on the case for me.
It doesn’t take an expert or very much data to know that developing something that quickly and injecting something into your body with hardly any testing and zero long term data is not the best idea. And that has nothing to do with politics either.
 
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eatrains

macrumors 6502a
Mar 11, 2006
635
4,846
Doesn't matter. Everyone who is concerned can protect themselves. I know I hear the argument well there are certain people that can't get the vaccine...yea...that has always been the case with every virus. Not much you can do about that.

The other argument is risking medical capcity. That was an overblown point and very isolated. People being triaged like what happened in Italy early on, never happened in the US on any major scale outside of a few rural locations.
Weird, because I remember overstuffed hospital wards filled with covid patients, routine medical services being unavailable due to the resulting healthcare shortages, and refrigerator trucks filled with dead bodies lining the streets.

If you want to use vaccinated/unvaccinated as the end-all be-all metric, you need to deprioritize the unvaccinated in healthcare settings, blocking them from hospitals if necessary. If you want to go back to "normal", that means a stroke victim won't die in a hallway because unvaccinated covid patients are taking up all the ICU beds.
 

miniyou64

macrumors 6502a
Jul 8, 2008
749
2,690
Weird, because I remember overstuffed hospital wards filled with covid patients, routine medical services being unavailable due to the resulting healthcare shortages, and refrigerator trucks filled with dead bodies lining the streets.

If you want to use vaccinated/unvaccinated as the end-all be-all metric, you need to deprioritize the unvaccinated in healthcare settings, blocking them from hospitals if necessary. If you want to go back to "normal", that means a stroke victim won't die in a hallway because unvaccinated covid patients are taking up all the ICU beds.
”Deprioritize”. What a sick way to think about another human
 

fenderbass146

macrumors 65816
Mar 11, 2009
1,459
2,555
Northwest Indiana
Weird, because I remember overstuffed hospital wards filled with covid patients, routine medical services being unavailable due to the resulting healthcare shortages, and refrigerator trucks filled with dead bodies lining the streets.

If you want to use vaccinated/unvaccinated as the end-all be-all metric, you need to deprioritize the unvaccinated in healthcare settings, blocking them from hospitals if necessary. If you want to go back to "normal", that means a stroke victim won't die in a hallway because unvaccinated covid patients are taking up all the ICU beds.
Please provide me some data on how many non-covid patients died because hospitals were full and they couldn't get treatment.
 

eatrains

macrumors 6502a
Mar 11, 2006
635
4,846
Not for any other “vaccine” in history.
History is made every day.

The fact is that the vaccine lowers risk of hospitalization incredibly, by a factor of ten. If we want "normal", we simply cannot have a healthcare system that's collapsed by unvaccinated patients. Unvaccinated covid patients are less likely to have a good outcome, and patients who are less likely to have a good outcome are depriotizied. Again, that's simply triage.
 
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fenderbass146

macrumors 65816
Mar 11, 2009
1,459
2,555
Northwest Indiana
What's the point of elected or appointed experts if regular folks can "interpret" the data themselves to fulfill their own confirmation bias? Politics always get involved but that doesn't excuse people and politicians who reject expert guidance for their own convenience or political position. And there were some confusing and contradictory statements coming from the CDC but again, I followed the guidance and the law. It wasn't too hard and didn't require me to do my own research because I had the best scientists and doctors already on the case for me.
Great question, seems our Government has way too much influence over peoples day to day lives. I followed the guidance as too, until they went too far. No problems with masks, I love the vaccine, but forcing those things on people once the vaccine was available was the end of compliance from me. Individual at that point could protect themselves, but people always want the Government to take care of them.
 
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eatrains

macrumors 6502a
Mar 11, 2006
635
4,846
Please provide me some data on how many non-covid patients died because hospitals were full and they couldn't get treatment.
 

fenderbass146

macrumors 65816
Mar 11, 2009
1,459
2,555
Northwest Indiana
All I see is a few anecdotal stories and some studies claiming a certain number of deaths are possible. No actual data on how many have died because they couldn't get treatment in time and died.
 
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eatrains

macrumors 6502a
Mar 11, 2006
635
4,846
All I see is a few anecdotal stories and some studies claiming a certain number of deaths are possible. No actual data on how many have died because they couldn't get treatment in time and died.
I gave you a study that used actual excess deaths during covid relative to ICU capacity to create a general model and stories of people in Alabama, Iowa, and Texas who died because there was no hospital space to show that it actually happens and isn't some hoax.
 

fenderbass146

macrumors 65816
Mar 11, 2009
1,459
2,555
Northwest Indiana
I gave you a study that used actual excess deaths during covid relative to ICU capacity to create a general model and stories of people in Alabama, Iowa, and Texas who died because there was no hospital space to show that it actually happens and isn't some hoax.
I believe it happened, not at any great scale. Also, excess death is not the same thing as death because a hospital is full. I'm not an anti-vaxxer covid denier, but the hospitals being overrun and causing widespread triaging or turning people away were entirely overblown by the media. Did it happen, yes, did it happen as it did in Italy, no it did not. That study does not use any actual numbers, just estimates, and doesn't provide info on the actual reality of how many people have died due to hospital overflow. It's also from the middle of 2021. You'd think if this was as widespread an issue as people are saying, we'd have some hard data.
 
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eatrains

macrumors 6502a
Mar 11, 2006
635
4,846
I believe it happened, not at any great scale. I'm not an anti-vaxxer covid denier, but the hospitals being overrun and causing widespread triaging or turning people away were entirely overblown by the media. Did it happen, yes, did it happen as it did in Italy, no it did not. That study does not use any actual numbers, just estimates, and doesn't provide info on the actual reality of how many people have died due to hospital overflow. It's also from the middle of 2021. You'd think if this was as widespread an issue as people are saying, we'd have some hard data.
How many people died in Italy because there was no more room in hospitals?
 

Wanted797

macrumors 68000
Oct 28, 2011
1,724
3,609
Australia
Unfotunitatly there are too many people who refuse to get back to normal and want to live in a perpetual state of terror as well. Thankfully FINALLY, common sense is prevailing.
The media focus has found new things to talk about. So companies aren’t about to be dragged over the coals for doing something completely reasonable.
 
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jonnyb098

macrumors 601
Nov 16, 2010
4,029
5,646
Michigan
Sure. You do you. I am sure some people disagreed with Pythagora as well. It probably only slowed us down a few hundred years.

That's the issue here. Apple is at such a rush to move back to in-person not because they think it's safe but because it's cheaper. It's a real shame, given other companies look to them for guidance on what they should be doing.
We get it. You are free to lock yourself in and wear your mask alone while driving. WE GET IT. The rest of us will move on with life.
 
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jonnyb098

macrumors 601
Nov 16, 2010
4,029
5,646
Michigan
How many people died in Italy because there was no more room in hospitals?
That’s a really poor argument considering how skewed the average age in Italy is on top of the amount of people in overall poor health and/or smoke. But please …continue.….

If you prefer to follow the science. The CDC FINALLY admitted recently that 70 percent of ALL covid deaths were people with AT LEAST 4 co-morbidities. This was a pandemic of the unhealthy, PERIOD!
 
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