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Haust

Cancelled
Sep 3, 2011
262
332
Complete ********. Are there bad unions? Sure. But there are bad employers as well. A union is just a group of people. That doesn’t automatically make them unreasonable or untrustworthy.
Spare the insults. A union is not just a group of people. It’s an organization of people who stand under a union management system, for a fee to the union members, that is designed to force a company to pay benefits and offer guarantees that the company would not otherwise propose for a variety of reasons. In time, the profitability and quality of products of the company, becomes second to the deals and down the hole it goes. The flexibility of the company to maneuver is hamstrung and hardened. Unions will damage Apple.
 

BaldiMac

macrumors G3
Jan 24, 2008
8,795
10,933
Spare the insults. A union is not just a group of people. It’s an organization of people who stand under a union management system, for a fee to the union members, that is designed to force a company to pay benefits and offer guarantees that the company would not otherwise propose for a variety of reasons. In time, the profitability and quality of products of the company, becomes second to the deals and down the hole it goes. The flexibility of the company to maneuver is hamstrung and hardened. Unions will damage Apple.
Again, you’re just making stuff up. Circular reasoning. You assume unions are bad and use that to conclude unions are bad.

Apple retail employees entering into a union does not affect the quality of products. Obviously, it will affect profitability, but that’s the whole point. Not sure why you think that’s a bad thing.
 
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Maximara

macrumors 68000
Jun 16, 2008
1,707
908
Of course there should be incentive for those who go for the extra mile. The reduction of wealth gap and fair wage does not mean that everyone gets paid the same amount.
Right. As a Republican president said over 100 years ago: "No man can be a good citizen unless he has a wage more than sufficient to cover the bare cost of living, and hours of labor short enough so that after his day’s work is done he will have time and energy to bear his share in the management of the community, to help in carrying the general load."
Later he elaborated: "Wages are subnormal if they fail to provide a living for those who devote their time and energy to industrial occupations. The monetary equivalent of a living wage varies according to local conditions, but must include enough to secure the elements of a normal standard of living--a standard high enough to make morality possible, to provide for education and recreation, to care for immature members of the family, to maintain the family during periods of sickness, and to permit of reasonable saving for old age."

Unions serve that function very well.
 
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Maximara

macrumors 68000
Jun 16, 2008
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$90B of borrowed money for this bailout. Tax payers foot the bill. Yup. Unions are great for America.

No different than the Banks getting their $700 billion bailout (other than a lot less money). Also forgets that the Republicans wanted to privatize social security and allow the money to be invested in stocks and bonds. Anybody who knows anything about the Crash of 1929 knows why that was a bag of hammers dropped on your head bad idea.
 
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pastrychef

macrumors 601
Sep 15, 2006
4,753
1,450
New York City, NY

Maximara

macrumors 68000
Jun 16, 2008
1,707
908
Banks and social security are topics for a different debate.
They are all the same point — whining about X (which helps the needy) costs some amount when Y (which helps the already well off) and is effectively the same thing (and even cost the taxpayer even more) is considered fine.

You know sort of whining about Apple's 30% which was gotten from Nintendo back when stores were doing this: "Revenue is usually split 60 percent to the store and 40 percent to you, although everything is negotiable. If your product is a "hot" item or helps drive extra traffic to that retailer, you can start at 60/40 then maybe move to a 50/50 or even 40/60 split." (2011)

Once Apple 30% in the digital space caught on and was making bank everybody realized they better change and being typical Corporate America (ie about imaginative as a cinderblock) they just rubber stamped the 30% Apple had — which Apple got from Nintendo.

No collusion needed — just Corporate America in general being about as forward looking as a person walking backwards.
 
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pastrychef

macrumors 601
Sep 15, 2006
4,753
1,450
New York City, NY
They are all the same point — whining about X (which helps the needy) when Y (which helps the already well off) and is effectively the same thing is considered fine.

You know sort of whining about Apple's 30% which was gotten from Nintendo back when stores were doing this: "Revenue is usually split 60 percent to the store and 40 percent to you, although everything is negotiable. If your product is a "hot" item or helps drive extra traffic to that retailer, you can start at 60/40 then maybe move to a 50/50 or even 40/60 split." (2011)

Once Apple 30% in the digital space caught on and was making bank everybody realized they better change and being typical Corporate America (ie about imaginative as a cinderblock) they just rubber stamped the 30% Apple had — which Apple got from Nintendo.

No collusion needed — just Corporate America in general being about as forward looking as a person walking backwards.

Stop changing the subject. This is not a discussion about banks or social security.

Please start a new thread for those topics.
 

Maximara

macrumors 68000
Jun 16, 2008
1,707
908
Stop changing the subject. This is not a discussion about banks or social security.
I'm not changing the subject. I'm doing a little thing called comparison. Without unions the pension plans likely wouldn't even exist for most companies as was true in the gilded age. Heck software programmers (especially game programmers) desperately need unions given how common needless crunch time; government sure isn't going to do crap until enough people say enough is enough.
 
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Maximara

macrumors 68000
Jun 16, 2008
1,707
908
I have yet to see any company willingly unionize their employees. Forced acceptance is still forced.
Closed ships have been illegal in the US since the Taft–Hartley Act in 1947. Never mind the forcing the companies did back in the Gilded age — even to the point of having the local militia show up and gun down women and children even refusing to bury them until another company demanded they remove the bodies as seeing dead people along your railroad was bad for business.
 
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