Apple Store in Maryland Makes History by Voting to Unionize

[Maximara]

They shouldn't. Just like how they shouldn't expect more pay if/when the companies do well.

In the 1950s, a typical CEO made 20 times the salary of his or her average worker. Last year [2017], CEO pay at an S&P 500 Index firm soared to an average of 361 times more than the average rank-and-file worker, or pay of $13,940,000 a year, according to an AFL-CIO’s Executive Paywatch news release today.

Despite increasing protests from unions and consumer groups, the average CEO pay climbed 6% last year [2017]. Meanwhile, the average production worker earned just $38,613, according to Executive Paywatch. (Hembree, Diana (May 22, 2018) "CEO Pay Skyrockets To 361 Times That Of The Average Worker" Forbes)

Your logic is non existent. Why should this clear greed be rewarded while the rank file workers get paid crap?

 

[pastrychef]

In the 1950s, a typical CEO made 20 times the salary of his or her average worker. Last year [2017], CEO pay at an S&P 500 Index firm soared to an average of 361 times more than the average rank-and-file worker, or pay of $13,940,000 a year, according to an AFL-CIO’s Executive Paywatch news release today.

Despite increasing protests from unions and consumer groups, the average CEO pay climbed 6% last year [2017]. Meanwhile, the average production worker earned just $38,613, according to Executive Paywatch. (Hembree, Diana (May 22, 2018) "CEO Pay Skyrockets To 361 Times That Of The Average Worker" Forbes)

Your logic is non existent. Why should this clear greed be rewarded while the rank file workers get paid crap?

The guy who got my iPhone at the Apple Store didn't make the decisions that turned Apple in to a $2T+ company.

Honestly, I don't really care what other people make. It's none of my business. I only care about what I make.

 

[BaldiMac]

It won’t be you negotiating anything. It will be union bosses, who you will be paying, who will also be taking a cut of what they force the company to give to you. There is always an underlying hatred among all involved whenever a union is in place in a company. It will make Apple rot from within. Large scale unions within Apple will mark the downward turn for them.

Complete ********. Are there bad unions? Sure. But there are bad employers as well. A union is just a group of people. That doesn’t automatically make them unreasonable or untrustworthy.

 

[Funny Apple Man]

The guy who got my iPhone at the Apple Store didn't make the decisions that turned Apple in to a $2T+ company.

Honestly, I don't really care what other people make. It's none of my business. I only care about what I make.

Apple wouldn't be the $2 trillion+ company today without all of the people like the Apple Store employee and the factory worker that made it possible. Sure they make the decision but who are the ones that made those ideas become a reality?

Some employees are more productive, some less productive.

Some go the extra mile, others don't.

Not all workers are the same. Why should they all be compensated in the same way?

If all are compensated the same way, where is the incentive to go the extra mile?

Of course there should be incentive for those who go for the extra mile. The reduction of wealth gap and fair wage does not mean that everyone gets paid the same amount.

 

[avz]

Going the extra mile won't help those who are under a collective bargaining agreement.

This is just an amateurish attempt to "divide and conquer" the workforce. The reality is that very few people can be truly indispensable and are able to hold their employers by the throat. The rest of the workers are better off with a collective agreement in order to have any position of bargaining power.

 

[pastrychef]

Apple wouldn't be the $2 trillion+ company today without all of the people like the Apple Store employee and the factory worker that made it possible. Sure they make the decision but who are the ones that made those ideas become a reality?

I disagree. Without the guy at the Apple Store, I would've just ordered online.

Of course there should be incentive for those who go for the extra mile. The reduction of wealth gap and fair wage does not mean that everyone gets paid the same amount.

There won't be any incentive if they are all part of a collective bargaining agreement. They will be compensated the same whether they go the extra mile or not. This will be bad for customers and Apple Store reputation.

 

[pastrychef]

This is just an amateurish attempt to "divide and conquer" the workforce. The reality is that very few people can be truly indispensable and are able to hold their employers by the throat. The rest of the workers are better off with a collective agreement in order to have any position of bargaining power.

So, the whole idea of unionizing is to protect the unproductive from being laid off? How is this good for the company? How is this good for the customer?

 

[avz]

So, the whole idea of unionizing is to protect the unproductive from being laid off? How is this good for the company? How is this good for the customer?

How did you arrive to that conclusion? There is a difference in having a position of bargaining power and having an unlimited rights to turn up to work drunk and sleep all day.

 

[pastrychef]

How did you arrive to that conclusion? There is a difference in having a position of bargaining power and having an unlimited rights to turn up to work drunk and sleep all day.

Even those who walk in drunk and fall asleep on the job are difficult to fire if they are unionized.

 

[avz]

Even those who walk in drunk and fall asleep on the job are difficult to fire if they are unionized.

Anybody who is afraid of this highly unlikely scenario should never start a business of their own.

Unionization is merely a manifestation of the changing world. This change is totally objective like the direction of the wind. I believe we are already in post-capitalism and resisting an objective process is never a wise decision regardless of what your ultimate goals are.

 

[pastrychef]

Anybody who is afraid of this highly unlikely scenario should never start a business of their own.

Unionization is merely a manifestation of the changing world. This change is totally objective like the direction of the wind. I believe we are already in post-capitalism and resisting an objective process is never a wise decision regardless of what your ultimate goals are.

Every unionization effort I've seen recently has been opposed by the companies. From Starbucks to Amazon to Apple. This is because it's bad for business and it's bad for customers.

Without capitalism, what will drive innovation?

 

[avz]

Every unionization effort I've seen recently has been opposed by the companies. From Starbucks to Amazon to Apple. This is because it's bad for business and it's bad for customers.

Without capitalism, what will drive innovation?

It is absolutely natural to go from denial to acceptance through various stages.

When talking about capitalism and innovation ask yourself why US still relies on Russia to bring their astronauts back from space?

 

[pastrychef]

It is absolutely natural to go from denial to acceptance through various stages.

When talking about capitalism and innovation ask yourself why US still relies on Russia to bring their astronauts back from space?

I have yet to see any company willingly unionize their employees. Forced acceptance is still forced.

When I think about capitalism, I think about SpaceX, Blue Origin, and Virgin Galactic, not NASA or the Soviet Space Program. There's a reason why all three of them are American companies.

 

[A Hobo]

Honestly, I don't really care what other people make. It's none of my business. I only care about what I make.

Then why do your (EDIT:, I initially wrote ‘dozens’ and thought, damn what if the hyperbole goes over your head and then we’ll be fighting over that..) 36 (that’s THREE dozen) posts in this thread exist only to demonise democratic union action? If they want to unionise they have the right to, no? Freedom and all that.

However at every turn you’ve mentioned strawman after strawman that unions are the BADDIES and will be corrupt everytime and exist only to collect fees and sap away your value, it’s all nonsense frankly and even by your own commentary it’s clear you care VERY much about the people in apple not earning a living wage. May I ask, are you a shareholder? I’m trying to work out why someone would just invent anti union sentiment if they themselves aren’t a shareholder or an employee?


For someone who cares so very little about what other people make: you’ve made yourself look a very effective mouthpiece for deciding what other people are worth. You speak like someone that is either too privileged to think about the objective reality that retail staff across the globe don’t make enough to make ends meet, or someone that knows what they are saying is nonsense and does it anyway..

interesting opinions come from you either way.

Edit tag: I learned to count today

 

[A Hobo]

Even those who walk in drunk and fall asleep on the job are difficult to fire if they are unionized.

This argument holds as much water as the average colander. You’d be better off using it as a hat, unions don’t suddenly make gross misconduct acceptable. Go and make up fairytales elsewhere if you’re so inclined to them.

 

[pastrychef]

Then why do your (EDIT:, I initially wrote ‘dozens’ and thought, damn what if the hyperbole goes over your head and then we’ll be fighting over that..) 36 (that’s THREE dozen) posts in this thread exist only to demonise democratic union action? If they want to unionise they have the right to, no? Freedom and all that.

However at every turn you’ve mentioned strawman after strawman that unions are the BADDIES and will be corrupt everytime and exist only to collect fees and sap away your value, it’s all nonsense frankly and even by your own commentary it’s clear you care VERY much about the people in apple not earning a living wage. May I ask, are you a shareholder? I’m trying to work out why someone would just invent anti union sentiment if they themselves aren’t a shareholder or an employee?


For someone who cares so very little about what other people make: you’ve made yourself look a very effective mouthpiece for deciding what other people are worth. You speak like someone that is either too privileged to think about the objective reality that retail staff across the globe don’t make enough to make ends meet, or someone that knows what they are saying is nonsense and does it anyway..

interesting opinions come from you either way.

Edit tag: I learned to count today

This is a discussion about unions and I'm voicing my animus for unions. Do I have your permission to do so?

I see so many people thinking that unions are the saviors to the working class with no consideration for how the damage businesses and customers.

Where did you see Apple employees not being able to earn a living wage? Why do they not seek employment elsewhere if they are being compensated so poorly by Apple?

I don't decided what people are worth. The individuals and their employers decided what they are worth. This should be negotiated prior to accepting a job offer. If the individuals find the compensation to be below "living wage", why on earth would they accept???

 

[pastrychef]

This argument holds as much water as the average colander. You’d be better off using it as a hat, unions don’t suddenly make gross misconduct acceptable. Go and make up fairytales elsewhere if you’re so inclined to them.

What must an employer consider before disciplining a union employee? | FAQs | Tools | hrcenter.us.brightmine.com

www.xperthr.com

 

[A Hobo]

What must an employer consider before disciplining a union employee? | FAQs | Tools | hrcenter.us.brightmine.com

www.xperthr.com

This is a wonderful if not entirely enlightening link:
Sorry where does it state that you can’t fire a unionised employee for gross misconduct like being drunk on the job like you suggested?


In fact the website you linked says “An employer may not discipline a union employee without cause” well I must say that sounds very reasonable, and I hope in the future all employed Americans would have the same protections.

 

[pastrychef]

This is a wonderful if not entirely enlightening link:
Sorry where does it state that you can’t fire a unionised employee for gross misconduct like being drunk on the job like you suggested?


In fact the website you linked says “An employer may not discipline a union employee without cause” well I must say that sounds very reasonable, and I hope in the future all employed Americans would have the same protections.

The article lists the bare minimums additional barriers can be added in negotiations for collective bargaining agreement. Regardless, the employers must go through the union and numbers steps before actually being able to get rid of the guy who walked in drunk or fell asleep on the job.

 

[A Hobo]

The article lists the bare minimums additional barriers can be added in negotiations for collective bargaining agreement. Regardless, the employers must go through the union and numbers steps before actually being able to get rid of the guy who walked in drunk or fell asleep on the job.

Which is totally fine and protects you from a no fault firing, these are things that you should want for all employees.. I’m not sure what your angle is here, there’s still no way you don’t get fired for gross misconduct just because you’re unionised and once again it’s just something you’ve pulled out your rear end.


To be clear, there’s nothing in that link that states that the union will be able to stop you firing an employee for breaching the MANY conduct rules being drunk would have you breaching, unions will not stop you being fired for misconduct and the notion (again unsourced, I’ve noticed that about you) that a union employee has more protection in this example is absurd.

You are talking pish. Total nonsense.

 

[pastrychef]

Which is totally fine and protects you from a no fault firing, these are things that you should want for all employees.. I’m not sure what your angle is here, there’s still no way you don’t get fired for gross misconduct just because you’re unionised and once again it’s just something you’ve pulled out your rear end.


To be clear, there’s nothing in that link that states that the union will be able to stop you firing an employee for breaching the MANY conduct rules being drunk would have you breaching, unions will not stop you being fired for misconduct and the notion (again unsourced, I’ve noticed that about you) that a union employee has more protection in this example is absurd.

You are talking pish. Total nonsense.

Nope. I'd like to be able to fire the guy who walked in drunk right there on the spot.

Being forced to keep that guy around until I can get through the bureaucracy of the union nonsense and having him deal with with customers is bad for business.

 

[A Hobo]

Nope. I'd like to be able to fire the guy who walked in drunk right there on the spot.

Being forced to keep that guy around until I can get through the bureaucracy of the union nonsense and having him deal with with customers is bad for business.

And you can, effectively by suspending the employee pending an investigation and removing them from duty, this is how the world works son, it protects both sides. You’re living in a fantasy world my friend.

 

[pastrychef]

And you can, effectively by suspending the employee pending an investigation and removing them from duty, this is how the world works son, it protects both sides. You’re living in a fantasy world my friend.

Why would I want that? It's extra time wasted on this guy that I can save if my shop were not unionized.

Don't call me son.

What's the fantasy? Unions are bad for business. Plain and simple.

 

[A Hobo]

Why would I want that? It's extra time wasted on this guy that I can save if my shop were not unionized.

Don't call me son.

What's the fantasy? Unions are bad for business. Plain and simple.

The fantasy changes by the day, today it’s that people turn up drunk and are unfirable becuase of unions, couple of days ago it was that occasionally there’s an inflatable rat at picket lines and that scares you for some reason.

It’s difficult to take anybody seriously with this almost troll level of misunderstanding around how the corporate world works and it’s very clear to all by now that you’ve got a huge chip on you shoulder about unions.

Tell you H’wat, tomorrows fantasy should be one about how every American who works 40 hours a week having all of their needs met. But I’m sure that particular fantasy boils your blood.

 

[pastrychef]

The fantasy changes by the day, today it’s that people turn up drunk and are unfirable becuase of unions, couple of days ago it was that occasionally there’s an inflatable rat at picket lines and that scares you for some reason.

It’s difficult to take anybody seriously with this almost troll level of misunderstanding around how the corporate world works and it’s very clear to all by now that you’ve got a huge chip on you shoulder about unions.

Tell you H’wat, tomorrows fantasy should be one about how every American who works 40 hours a week having all of their needs met. But I’m sure that particular fantasy boils your blood.

Unions don't care about the customers or the companies. They only care about themselves.

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