it's not to theoretically help unvaccinated 80+year-olds. it's to actually help the entire population
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Apple Stores Will Continue to Require Masks for Now
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it's not to theoretically help unvaccinated 80+year-olds. it's to actually help the entire population
Wrong. “The entire population” isn’t at risk. The average COVID-19 death is over 80 years old.
do you know what average means? it does not mean you aren't at risk unless you are in the "average" age group
instead of quoting Charlie Brown why don't you explain what you are trying to say.
you literally said "'The entire population' isn’t at risk. The average COVID-19 death is over 80 years old."
if you don't mean to claim that because the average age of covid death is over 80 that the entire population is not at risk, than what are you claiming?
....
also, helping the entire population doesn't just mean preventing death, which I think is a sufficient goal in and of itself, but also preventing illness, and also being able to safely lift the varying degrees of restrictions everyone has been living under for the last year and some
You have a lot of numbers but not a lot of sources. Do you have one for the following?
Myocarditis can be caused by any number of viruses. I’m willing to bet having actual COVID increases the chances but that’s a gut feeling and no, I don’t have a source for it.
and you also never gave one for the 1/4,500 statistic for teenagers.
Figures quoted from a study we can’t independently read are effectively meaningless. Even assuming you're faithfully repeating what was in the study, we can’t validate the methodology gives a statistically significant result or whether the study really means what it’s reported to mean
For example, I could say (quoting NPR)
Research published in a major medical journal concludes that a parachute is no more effective than an empty backpack at protecting you from harm if you have to jump from an aircraft.
But don’t go jumping from 10,000ft with an empty backpack quite yet…
Study:
Parachute use to prevent death and major trauma when jumping from aircraft: randomized controlled trial
Objective To determine if using a parachute prevents death or major traumatic injury when jumping from an aircraft. Design Randomized controlled trial. Setting Private or commercial aircraft between September 2017 and August 2018. Participants 92 aircraft passengers aged 18 and over were...
FYI
haven’t read it in detail yet but skimming does seem to suggest some connection in some parts of the population.
https://www.acc.org/latest-in-cardi...ossible-cause-of-myocarditis-and-pericarditis
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And if that’s the case it’s not surprising an immune reaction would possibly cause similar response. But with a vaccine it can be monitored better.
is there actual evidence that myocarditis is caused by the vaccine?
"The CDC has not determined a causal relationship between the vaccines and heart inflammation, stating that the rates of myocarditis for the recently vaccinated “have not differed from expected baseline rates.”
In the U.S., there have been a few dozen reported cases of heart inflammation occurring shortly after vaccination. There are about 132 million Americans who have been fully vaccinated and some 289 million doses administered so far, though teenagers have only recently begun receiving inoculations.
Dr. Peter Hotez, a pediatrician and a noted vaccine scientist at Baylor University, wrote on Twitter that medical experts are “sorting out if there’s any relationship to the vaccine at all, or it’s due to breakthrough COVID-19, or vaccination on top of previous COVID, or the vaccine itself, or if it’s myocarditis from other intercurrent viral infections such as enteroviruses occurring in warmer months.”
New York pulmonologist Dr. Hugh Cassiere also has pointed to Hotez’s latter hypothesis, noting that various viruses, including the common cold, can cause myocarditis. He told NBC Newsthat, with millions of people beginning to return to normal activities after getting vaccinated, it would make sense to see instances of heart inflammation tick up.
“Now that people are taking their masks off, we’re transmitting more virus,” Cassiere said."
Reports of myocarditis after COVID-19 vaccination have doctors trying to determine linkage, spark cover-up fears
Symptoms of myocarditis include chest pain and shortness of breath.
I haven't made any claims. you are making all sorts of claims with made up numbers and no sources of any kind.
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I don’t know. Ask the people on your side who have found and cited the same studies within the past page or two. I guess they’re part of the disinformation campaign, too.
Yes you are for any stats you choose to claim as fact.
From the MacRumors Forum Rules / Rules for Appropriate Debate:
"Sources. If you claim that something's a fact, back it up with a source. If you can't produce evidence when someone asks you to cite your sources, we may remove your posts. If you started the thread, then we may remove or close the thread"
Since you've refused to cite the source of your 1-in-4500 statistic, I say it's completely made up.
Feel free to show us otherwise.
i think the “if you get myocarditis at 18 or under, you have a 60% chance of needing a heart transplant within 10 years.” may also be made up
I'm guessing someone is attributing outcomes of severe myocarditis to all cases of myocarditis, whether it be @jk73 or the source they read. Which is why it's important to cite actual sources, so we all can collaboratively evaluate the information available.
"The prognosis of patients with myocarditis depends on the severity of the inflammatory process and presentation of symptoms. Patients with severe disease have a poor prognosis without a transplant. Patients with mild myocarditis usually have a good outcome."
From https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK459259/
You already found and cited the same study, so why are you persisting with this nonsense? The study said “between 1 in 3,000 and 1 in 6,000,” which averages out to 1 in 4,500.
This isn’t hard.
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I never said anything about severe cases needing an immediate or almost immediate transplant. I was talking about a 10-year timeframe after an initial diagnosis of myocarditis in people under age 18.
You must have missed the news on the double ventilators, running out if hospital beds, blood clots, long term recovery, contagiousness, number of absolute deaths etc. That’s the real news. Not that crappy spin above.
How would anyone know you were averaging different figures to arrive at your 1 in 4500 that you claimed as fact?
Which specific study, and which paragraph are you getting this from?
Correct. It's NOT hard to cite your source.
Thus your continued refusal to do directly implies you have no confidence in that source.
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