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Wicked1

macrumors 68040
Apr 13, 2009
3,283
14
New Jersey
interesting, in early 2009 I bought the 13" uMB with a Core 2 Duo, 2.4/2GB/250GB for $1599. Several years later everything has been made much faster yet, the price for a similar machine has not changed much.

rMBP 13" middle of the line is $1499 with a 2.4 i5/8GB/256SSD so in reality Apple has dropped the prices for a much faster and better performing machine, we just seem to always complain how much they cost.

I will always buy the middle of the line in case I decide to upgrade undre 3 Years, then I do not feel like I wasted my money, however that said, I always buy from the Refurb store now, tons of savings for a better machine, can not go wrong.
 

gordian

macrumors member
May 3, 2010
73
13
So they're ditching the 13" and adding a 12"? What about the 11.5" market or the 11.375" market? Personally I need a 14.2" for work so none of these options help me.

...in other words Apple is starting to look the way it did in the 90s with excessive product variation. Combine that with building in more planned obsolescence (i.e., all components soldered) and arguably a decline in overall product longevity and they just might see a significant drop in profitability. Shame, really.
 

sentinelsx

macrumors 68010
Feb 28, 2011
2,004
0
1TB Drives should be the standard nowadays. Not everyone streams 24/7.

Just the pictures taken from our smartphones and cameras combined make up 50GB+. That is not even including videos yet. A 128 GB drive would be limiting if i was to put 1080p content on it for readily available entertainment.

But since SSDs are still expensive and external HDDs are cheap, i guess we can get by for the time being. Not a perfect solution though.
 

Carouser

macrumors 65816
Feb 1, 2010
1,411
1
Once Apple drops the 13-inch MacBook Pro, their cheapest laptop Mac I'd even consider for daily use works out to $1600!!!

Sounds like you have a bizarre niche case, if the current 13-inch MBP suits you just fine for daily use yet you'd have to spend $1600 to get something that suits you just as well.

If your problem is onboard storage or some dongle you'd have to use, well, I'd rather deal with an external or networked drive and an adapter than spend a few hundred dollars.
 

brinary001

Suspended
Sep 4, 2012
991
1,134
Midwest, USA
And thus we have the nail in the coffin on the disc-enabled MacBook (among other characteristics). So I guess from now if you want true power (that's also upgradeable) you'll just need to get a juiced-up desktop and a tablet/ultra book to bridge the gap. :rolleyes: This is on both sides, might I add- Mac AND PC.
 

iFitzgerald

macrumors regular
Jul 20, 2011
198
27
Ponta Delgada, Azores, Portugal
While I do know that these machines are very fast, those 128Gb just aren't enough for me. I do multimedia work on my Macs (Video and Image Editing, Graphic Design, etc) and I simply need more space. Not to mention that I still do some gaming here and there and World of Warcraft isn't light... That means I would have to go at the very least with the mid tier rMBP for 1549€ which is double my monthly salary (Portugal ftw...).

Besides that, those 4Gb of RAM on a "Pro" machine are ridiculous.
I've upgraded the RAM my 2008 iMac (which is starting to beg for a replacement) to 4Gb and I wish I could add more (although Mavericks did extend it's lifespan) and I've upgraded the RAM on my 2009 MBP to 8Gb. I got the 8Gb for 40€ and sold the 4GB it came with for 15€. That makes a 25€ vs 100€ at Apple, which in Portugal is a lot.

I've always upgraded my machines and I honestly don't like this direction that Apple is taking with all this obsolescence. I'm waiting for a Mac Mini refresh and I was hoping it would still be upgradable, even though I know that it most likely won't be and while some of you don't feel the need for an upgradable Mac, there are those who do :S
 

ncbill

macrumors 6502
Aug 18, 2002
251
11
IMHO, it's the price of Apple's proprietary PCIe-SSDs that's the killer if this is true.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a 2TB standard 2.5" SATA-interface SSD for around $500 by the end of next year with Apple still charging an extra $500 to upgrade from a 512GB to 1TB PCIe-SSD.
 

Bibbler

macrumors regular
Jun 23, 2007
188
0
The Mon Valley!
I supposed those peole will be forced to give up on OSX and go over/back to windows.

Unfortunately, I have just done that. My 2008 Macbook Pro (4,1) died and I bought a HP Pavilion 17.3" Laptop and (after a lot of playing) managed to downgrade the machine to Win 7 Pro. This is the machine that I need as it has the features that I need. It's fast, expandable, and works well with me..

Even more unfortunately, I suspect I will be looking towards the Windows world when my 2010 i5 27" iMac dies.

All this said, this is my personal needs. I realize that most of the posters here are happy with whatever Apple produces and will buy them anyway. Apple realizes that and has always been willing to cut off smaller groups of users who aren't making them money. Apple is moving further away from being a computer manufacture and is definitely a full-blown consumer gadget maker mode. It's where they are making their money and one can't fault them for that. I do however fault them for letting the line of Macintosh computers slowly die. I really wish they would sell off the Mac division to a company who would continue to make quality Mac (or OS X enabled) computers for those of us who need a machine of this type. At the very least license the OS to one or two high end manufactures.
 

DenBeke

macrumors regular
Aug 11, 2011
192
8
Antwerp
I have a diploma in computer science. And I'm not telling you how much storage you need, but what kind of storage. Any data storage technology with moving parts should not exist in portable computers. All kinds of drives will cease to exist sooner or later.

Yes, SSD is faster and better for a laptop. But if you have 500GB of pictures of music, you need to have a real hard drive if you don't want to spend 500 euros for an SSD.
 

Tech198

Cancelled
Mar 21, 2011
15,915
2,151
Shimmery Xmas !!

I guess all production has to come to an end....... Apple also said that about the iPad 2, till high demand bought it back for a limited time only..

This would this mean next year, Apple gives the 15-Macbook Pro (non-Retina) a "heave hoo" ?

Wait, probably not since people still need optical drives... of course, Its kinda strange how a simple thing such as a internal drive can keep products around, while everything else moves ahead in leaps and bounds.

I could never understand why Apple never canned the only 15-inch Non-Retina Macbook Pro (2.3Gig)... Apple's reason is, because countries need it...

This doesn't hold up at all, because they can just by the external super-drives Apple sells. After all, that's why Apple sells them right ?

Makes sense to me...

But one day, Apple will have to do this too... Its only a matter of time, and intellect.
 

KUguardgrl13

macrumors 68020
May 16, 2013
2,492
125
Kansas, USA
Shimmery Xmas !!

I guess all production has to come to an end....... Apple also said that about the iPad 2, till high demand bought it back for a limited time only..

This would this mean next year, Apple gives the 15-Macbook Pro (non-Retina) a "heave hoo" ?

Wait, probably not since people still need optical drives... of course, Its kinda strange how a simple thing such as a internal drive can keep products around, while everything else moves ahead in leaps and bounds.

I could never understand why Apple never canned the only 15-inch Non-Retina Macbook Pro (2.3Gig)... Apple's reason is, because countries need it...

This doesn't hold up at all, because they can just by the external super-drives Apple sells. After all, that's why Apple sells them right ?

Makes sense to me...

But one day, Apple will have to do this too... Its only a matter of time, and intellect.

The 15" non-retina was killed off in October after the retina line was updated. The 13" MBP is currently the only non-retina MacBook Pro.
 

MagnusVonMagnum

macrumors 603
Jun 18, 2007
5,193
1,442
This is hilarious….Has anyone seriously USED a rMBP??? Compared it to a non retina MBP in terms of speed and power? Its not even close.

You're right it's not.

The rMBP is so much more responsive and so much more powerful.

I think you have that backwards or something. The Retina versions use WAY more GPU power to do even trivial tasks. This is why the early Retinas were so damn laggy and HORRIBLE to use. Apple optimized the OS some more to make it usable and suddenly it's "so much more powerful" ??? Explain to me how two computers with the same exact i7 CPU can have one more be "way more powerful". :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Retina Macs may look prettier in their displays with a proper App, but they sure as hell are going to be slower than the exact same Mac except for the Retina display because that Mac will have a lot more GPU cycles to spare. Now if you are comparing a Retina model to a slower CPU model non-Retina, that's a whole different story and has NOTHING to do with the display.

If you don't believe me, try running Crysis (or some newer game) at maximum settings at maximum resolution. Now try running it at maximum settings at half that resolution. The frame rate will be a LOT faster at lower resolutions. Higher resolution generally equals slower performance for a given graphics chipset and that means choppier video at some point and slower response times. Just because running Apple Mail doesn't reach that point that doesn't mean you can't reach that point.

While the benefit of retina is often over-exaggerated, it absolutely does make a difference, and if you cannot see that, you probably do need to get your eyes checked (I mean that rather literally, but I'm (honestly) not trying to be rude).

I'm not saying I can't see a difference with a proper high resolution image, but I see little difference with just the default (double sized so the fonts and other GUI elements aren't too small to read) look, which I think most people are going to be seeing most of the time. How high a resolution does a word processor or email program need to be?

Now I'm not saying that there isn't value in Retina displays. I am saying that people like the person I responded to make a HUGE deal out of something that is a nicety (i.e. it won't make your Mac run faster; it'll actually do the opposite in terms of GPU drain) while I'd personally have higher priorities like more ports, faster GPUs or even a built-in BD drive since that computer would be docked to 28" or larger display when at home anyway not using the built-in display much of the time anyway (And large monitors is where truly high resolutions can be used to their maximum advantage instead of spending most of their time doubling graphics so it's not too small to look at).

But taken to an extreme (Japan is aiming for what now, 8k HD?) you end up with a marketing gimmick that has little value to the end customer. Most people watching 50" HDTVs don't need 1080p at their typical viewing distances and yet they will likely goad their poor neighbor for having a 720P display at the same viewing distance when in reality they're both seeing the same resolution to the eye acuity for that size/distance. Yes, you do sit very close to a 13" or 15" notebook so there's some value. I see even less value in going ape crazy in resolution for 5" iPod/iPhone displays. You can only hold the darn thing so close to your eyes, after all.

Basically, I took exception to his extreme reaction like Apple was garbage because they don't have 4k screens on all their notebooks and 8 on all their iMacs yet. Bigger numbers for ONE spec aren't all there is in life. A car that can go 200mph doesn't mean much to me commuting to work.
 
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thekeyring

macrumors 68040
Jan 5, 2012
3,485
2,147
London
It sucks they are doing it, but I can understand why they are. Its time. ThunderBolt and USB3 will replace now legacy ports, like FireWire.

Apple seriously needs to bump up the standard RAM on the 13" Retina. 4GB. Really? Common. It can NEVER be upgraded, and your stuck with 4GB?

THIS. If Apple were to double the standard RAM in the 13" and 15" MacBook Pros, and also knock £100 - £200 off the price, they would be much more attractive.
 

JuicyJones

macrumors member
Mar 20, 2011
92
131
Maybe some people can't afford to pay Apple's BTO prices on top of a laptop all in one go. Being able to upgrade the RAM and storage several pay checks later is "a big deal".

Also, even flash drives can go bad, and the ability to replace the unit easily without incurring huge service charges (outside of warrantee) is also a big deal. The same for the battery.

For some, the purchase of a laptop happens every 4, 5 or 6 years, and we want to ensure that we get the most for our money across that time frame. In 3 years time, an SSD twice the size will cost half as much (probably), and I may have filled my drive by then.

Well the flash drives are upgradable. If your flash drive goes bad, you could always replace it yourself.
 

agentx

macrumors member
Jul 20, 2009
48
31
the 13inch and 15inch Macbook was a near perfect interation in its last refresh ie. June 2012. I have been buying them up in droves as they are amazing machines.

The cost of Retinia's are nearly double that of a Unibody once you have extra RAM/Storage and all the damn adapters (£70+) and Applecare. I replaced my MBP2008 with a refurb MBP2012 for 40% of cost of a retina.

I think people overlook that with a Retina you absolutely have to have Applecare now. Something which in business we often did not use. Lets say you buy 20 machines we would buy an extra one and have spares onsite Hard disks, RAM and other bits and bobs. We can quickly swap things out repair etc. Obviously more major things do need specialist help but the cost per machine never really worked out as far as the downtime standpoint hence the spare !

I love the retina's and maybe my time will come but i am good for another 3-5 years with my 2012MBP with 1 x SSD/1 x HDD, 16GB RAM, loads of ports good screen and graphics card. I would urge people to get this one over a retina if you are a Pro !
 

Gudi

Suspended
May 3, 2013
4,590
3,265
Berlin, Berlin
Yes, SSD is faster and better for a laptop. But if you have 500GB of pictures of music, you need to have a real hard drive if you don't want to spend 500 euros for an SSD.
Than you should store that data externally, like everyone else does. The system drive isn't meant to hold your whole stolen music library. If you want to misuse your notebook that way, than you have to spend 500 euros extra.

I bet we can find even more ancient storage solutions than punch cards and data tapes when suddenly performance isn't an issue anymore. Face it, the times for hard disks inside the computer are over. Forever gone.

18273--datasette_blanko_0.jpg

A cheaper price can't buy a future for an outdated technology. For a brief period of time, hard disks will have a zombie after life as external backup solutions, disguised as stylish AirPort Time Capsules. But dead anyway.

Not long, before they become a fashion statement for hipster. Who will find it funny, back in the days people used to store data on actually spinning disks. Ridiculous! We had to wait for the read-head to move into position, like an animal.
 
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gnasher729

Suspended
Nov 25, 2005
17,980
5,565
Than you should store that data externally, like everyone else does. The system drive isn't meant to hold your whole stolen music library. If you want to misuse your notebook that way, than you have to spend 500 euros extra.

I bet we can find even more ancient storage solutions than punch cards and data tapes when suddenly performance isn't an issue anymore. Face it, the times for hard disks inside the computer are over. Forever gone.

A cheaper price can't buy a future for an outdated technology. For a brief period of time, hard disks will have a zombie after life as external backup solutions, disguised as stylish AirPort Time Capsules. But dead anyway.

Not long, before they become a fashion statement for hipster. Who will find it funny, back in the days people used to store data on actually spinning disks. Ridiculous! We had to wait for the read-head to move into position, like an animal.

What a load of nonsense. And the arrogance. My audiobooks alone (all legitimate, and many paid for) fill a 128 GB drive. My music (30+ years of collecting, all legitimate) fills a 128 GB drive. My videos are bigger. Calling that "abuse" of a notebook is stupid, stupid, stupid. An £80 hard drive handles this easily with room to spare. So in your arrogant opinion I should pay £500 or £1,000 more for an SSD drive, that doesn't give me _any_ benefit for the way I use my Mac? How idiotic is it to call hard drives "outdated" when the technology gives me ten times the storage capacity for the same money? You sound like one of those people who think that mp3 has better sound quality than audio CDs, that WiFi is faster than Ethernet, and that 3G is faster than WiFi.
 

gnasher729

Suspended
Nov 25, 2005
17,980
5,565
I have a diploma in computer science. And I'm not telling you how much storage you need, but what kind of storage. Any data storage technology with moving parts should not exist in portable computers. All kinds of drives will cease to exist sooner or later. The rumor at hand only says that this is the year, when the last Apple notebook with an HDD or ODD is sold. But the exact point in time isn't that important. It must happen anyway.

I had one before you were born... (that's estimating your age based on the fact that you haven't grown up yet). Some things that they apparently forgot to teach you: 1. To have an open mind. 2. Not to assume that something is better just because it is newer. 3. Benefits of layered storage technology.
 

MindsEye

macrumors regular
May 3, 2010
241
23
the 13inch and 15inch Macbook was a near perfect interation in its last refresh ie. June 2012. I have been buying them up in droves as they are amazing machines.

The cost of Retinia's are nearly double that of a Unibody once you have extra RAM/Storage and all the damn adapters (£70+) and Applecare. I replaced my MBP2008 with a refurb MBP2012 for 40% of cost of a retina.

I think people overlook that with a Retina you absolutely have to have Applecare now. Something which in business we often did not use. Lets say you buy 20 machines we would buy an extra one and have spares onsite Hard disks, RAM and other bits and bobs. We can quickly swap things out repair etc. Obviously more major things do need specialist help but the cost per machine never really worked out as far as the downtime standpoint hence the spare !

I love the retina's and maybe my time will come but i am good for another 3-5 years with my 2012MBP with 1 x SSD/1 x HDD, 16GB RAM, loads of ports good screen and graphics card. I would urge people to get this one over a retina if you are a Pro !

So true, i can't stress enough how simple it is to access and replace components in the unibody. Pre unibody it may have been childs play to change the memory but you had to do quite a bit more for the HDD. Had a 13" unibody where the user had severely damaged the screen. quickly popped out the HD made a clone then sent it on its merry way for repairs.

Honestly a part of me is very sad and annoyed to see an end of quite frankly a brilliant era but at the same time i feel very vindicated in my purchase of a 2012 15" non retina MBP two years ago.

Just recently upgraded the HDD to a 1TB Samsung Evo SSD for £350 so thats given it a big boost. As things stand what cost me almost £2k would have been around £3k if i had gone the retina route. Fair enough the SSD is not as fast as the PCI-e based storage solution but it costs almost half the price and offers more storage as at the time the maximum config for storage was 768GB.

I'm also good for many years to come and can't see myself upgrading until i can get a retina with 16GB and at the very least 750GB in the very lower £2k price range. If the iOS range is anything to go by i will not be holding my breath anytime soon on that.
 

Gudi

Suspended
May 3, 2013
4,590
3,265
Berlin, Berlin
My audiobooks alone (all legitimate, and many paid for) fill a 128 GB drive.
And how many audiobooks do you listen to at the same time? One. Only One. There is no reason to store a huge media library on an SSD. And there is no reason to use something else as a system volume than an SSD. The inevitable conclusion is to store your rarely used data piles somewhere else.
My music (30+ years of collecting, all legitimate) fills a 128 GB drive. My videos are bigger. Calling that "abuse" of a notebook is stupid, stupid, stupid.
Still not as stupid as building new notebooks with spinning disk technology. That is outright lunatic, lunatic, lunatic.
How idiotic is it to call hard drives "outdated" when the technology gives me ten times the storage capacity for the same money? You sound like one of those people who think that mp3 has better sound quality than audio CDs, that WiFi is faster than Ethernet, and that 3G is faster than WiFi.
What a perfect example for an outdated technology. Do you wanna buy my (please don't call them old) Audio-CDs? I wanted to get rid of them for a long time and can't find an idiot to buy them for $1 a disc. I have waited too long and may now have to throw them in the trash. Just like you will have to with your hard drives in a couple of years.
 

Wicked1

macrumors 68040
Apr 13, 2009
3,283
14
New Jersey
Shimmery Xmas !!

I guess all production has to come to an end....... Apple also said that about the iPad 2, till high demand bought it back for a limited time only..

This would this mean next year, Apple gives the 15-Macbook Pro (non-Retina) a "heave hoo" ?

Wait, probably not since people still need optical drives... of course, Its kinda strange how a simple thing such as a internal drive can keep products around, while everything else moves ahead in leaps and bounds.

I could never understand why Apple never canned the only 15-inch Non-Retina Macbook Pro (2.3Gig)... Apple's reason is, because countries need it...

This doesn't hold up at all, because they can just by the external super-drives Apple sells. After all, that's why Apple sells them right ?

Makes sense to me...

But one day, Apple will have to do this too... Its only a matter of time, and intellect.


I love the rMBP in both sizes, however I just got a 13" MBP so no need to upgrade the screen on them and speeds of the Retina models is very cool and the thin profile. If you really need a Superdrive buy an external USB one for about $30.00. I thought of getting the kit to remove mine and place a 500GB where the SD is and I am using a 240GB Sata III SSD and could not be happier. I only have the 2.5/4GB/240SSD now, but I have not had a reason to even upgrade the ram, but going to 8GB is likely for me, no need to punch it to 16GB.

I just wish the MBA's were Retina, then I would go for a new one ASAP
 

DaveTheRave

macrumors 6502a
May 22, 2003
790
383
Now the hard drive space... I'll give you that, but I just have a wireless drive I connect to to dump photos and vids to. I treat my laptop like a ssd on a Mac Pro tower... just the apps and my active project files, please! ^_^

How do you back up the wireless drive? I like all my files on my Macbook because I can plug in an external drive and use Time Machine to back it up. Do you have a second external to backup the first external drive? I like the simplicity of Time Machine.
 

charlituna

macrumors G3
Jun 11, 2008
9,636
816
Los Angeles, CA
No brainer.

I would say so too. At some point it will be just the MacBook Air and MacBook Pro (in the retina style). But I would say that it might not be likely until at least one more leap in storage. So maybe if we see SSD drives drop in price with the next level or two in size come this summer then maybe at the end of this year they will start the end of the vanilla MBP
 

MagnusVonMagnum

macrumors 603
Jun 18, 2007
5,193
1,442
And how many audiobooks do you listen to at the same time? One. Only One. There is no reason to store a huge media library on an SSD. And there is no reason to use something else as a system volume than an SSD. The inevitable conclusion is to store your rarely used data piles somewhere else.

I agree with Thrasher. One must have a massive ego thing going on there telling other people how they should use their computers or what the should want in hardware and calling anyone else a lunatic. I've got two electronic engineering degrees and I was probably using computers before you were born. Saying something shouldn't have moving parts is ridiculous. Do you drive a car or ride in one? You'd be up the creek without moving parts. Or do you own a landspeeder from Star Wars? My SCSI hard drives in my Amiga 3000 from 1992 still work fine all these years later. Solid state is only good as its current state of technology (pitiful at first) and it's still too expensive to compete with traditional hard drives for mass storage.

There are other solutions (e.g. combo SSD/traditional hard drive and/or two bays) that could solve mass storage issues on portables without having to carry around some god-awful external clunky crap. In other words, why would a profesisional musician running Logic Pro want a small SSD drive if they could have a large drive that is fast enough for a DAW? Raw audio takes up a lot of space. This is why I went for a 500GB 7200 RPM 2.5" drive a few years ago. Today I can get a nice 1TB one for a reasonable price while a 500GB 2.5" is still awfully expensive and not necessary for recording and editing music. So yeah, I'd still go for the "lunatic" option of having a spinning drive in my Macbook Pro.

WTF is the point in having a thin and portable Macbook if you have to carry around a load of external equipment because Apple didn't include enough storage or ports (adapters and hubs galore are needed on the Retina models that my 2008 MBP just doesn't need since it has a crap load of ports on it plus an expansion port; I have USB 3 on it with that now even). If you have to carry a load of extra junk, it's not so portable anymore.

Still not as stupid as building new notebooks with spinning disk technology. That is outright lunatic, lunatic, lunatic.

Lunatic? LOL. You don't even seem to know WTF you're talking about. Maybe you should have taken some Psychology classes while you were at it. You might have learned something about real human behavior and how calling people names won't get you very far in life and saying absurd things on top of that doesn't make you look terribly well informed.

What a perfect example for an outdated technology. Do you wanna buy my (please don't call them old) Audio-CDs? I wanted to get rid of them for a long time and can't find an idiot to buy them for $1 a disc. I have waited too long and may now have to throw them in the trash. Just like you will have to with your hard drives in a couple of years.

Idiots, eh? True properly vacuum formed CDs can last a lifetime or more. The gold substrate type can last indefinitely as in potentially thousands upon thousands of years, making gold ones a good archive medium. The only things that have survived the ancient past are made in things like rock or better yet GOLD. No SSD will come close to the archival lifetime of a gold substrate physically pitted disc sealed in plastic. Perhaps those audio CDs aren't as worthless as you think. But you don't think like that because your generation expects the status quo to last forever. If companies all switch to pay-to-listen and you haven nothing archived, you'll be at their mercy some day.

There are pros and cons to most technologies. You apparently know NONE of them to assume SSD is superior in every way that only "lunatics" would put them in a notebook. Frankly, your posts don't impress me in the slightest.
 
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