Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Nordichund

macrumors 6502
Aug 21, 2007
495
266
Oslo, Norway
innovation

Come on innovators, now is your chance to shine. If you can come up with a way to add on and upgrade these machines and surely there must be, then you are going to make a lot of money from the pros. :D

Apple are only doing this to make more money, end of.
 

Mal67

macrumors 6502a
Apr 2, 2006
519
36
West Oz
If companies all switch to pay-to-listen and you haven nothing archived, you'll be at their mercy some day.
What a nightmarish idea. One for the minimalists indeed. Although I m sure that I read somewhere that even Steve Jobs had kept his Dylan disc collection as well as having it in downloaded form.
 

newyorksole

macrumors 603
Apr 2, 2008
5,120
6,428
New York.
Truth.

In any given week at the Apple Store I sold maybe two notebooks to people who knew what they were buying without it being spelled out to them.

The average Apple customer just wants a computer that "works" and has chosen an Apple because a friend, coworker or family member recommended it. Most new customers are college freshmen.

There are a lot of professionals out there that use Macs. But compared to 15 years ago, they pale in comparison to the number of Mac owners who's most complicated use of their Mac is organizing their image library in iPhoto.

Exactly. There are sooo many old people that go to Apple Stores because they're getting their first computer and are only getting it because someone told them to. If someone told them to get AppleCare, they'll get it. If someone said not to get it, they won't get it.

People are HEAVILY influenced by their peers/loved ones. Especially when it comes to Apple.
 

SeaFox

macrumors 68030
Jul 22, 2003
2,620
954
Somewhere Else
Maybe, but man, only 100 bucks extra for retina? Only the most uninformed (and legally blind) of the general public would pick the low ball number. I wonder the percentage of sales is at the bottom?

Don't forget to compare all the differences between one model and the other. You need to add the cost of an extrernal DVD drive to the rMBP's price, too.
 

SMIDG3T

Suspended
Apr 29, 2012
3,859
2,316
England
Seems fair enough, an all-Retina line up sounds good. After having a Retina screen for a while, the resolution on the non-Retina's looks horrible.
 

chirpie

macrumors 6502a
Jul 23, 2010
646
183
How do you back up the wireless drive? I like all my files on my Macbook because I can plug in an external drive and use Time Machine to back it up. Do you have a second external to backup the first external drive? I like the simplicity of Time Machine.

I do it kind of weird. I have two usb externals plugged into my Mac Pro.

The laptop sees them wirelessly over the router and uses one of them for storing files, and the other has two partitions. One is a partition for time machine for the laptop proper, and the other is a back up for the files.
 

Gudi

Suspended
May 3, 2013
4,590
3,265
Berlin, Berlin
One must have a massive ego thing going on there telling other people how they should use their computers or what the should want in hardware and calling anyone else a lunatic.
Thanks. :) Any acknowledgment is appreciated.
I've got two electronic engineering degrees and I was probably using computers before you were born.
And I couldn't care less. People ask me about my education / personal background. I never ask anybody else about theirs. You couldn't impress me with a Nobel Price. I'll judge you by what you write, not who you are.
Saying something shouldn't have moving parts is ridiculous. Do you drive a car or ride in one?
No! I was obviously speaking about data storage technologies in mobile computers, not commuting vehicles. Is this a straw mens argument or reading comprehension handicap?
Maybe you should have taken some Psychology classes while you were at it. You might have learned something about real human behavior and how calling people names won't get you very far in life and saying absurd things on top of that doesn't make you look terribly well informed.
I generally tend to ignore everything after a "Maybe", but I like to return this life lesson in a minute.
No SSD will come close to the archival lifetime of a gold substrate physically pitted disc sealed in plastic.
You misunderstand the purpose of a system drive in a computer, it's not meant to archive anything. The data is there to be computed. Read it. Alter it. Write it back. The first and last steps require storage to be fast and randomly accessible. Only SSD are fit for the job.
Perhaps those audio CDs aren't as worthless as you think. But you don't think like that because your generation expects the status quo to last forever.
See, now instead of calling me names, you blame my whole generation, based on nothing but an assumption, that I must be younger than you, because you feel so much older than me. How far will this bring you in life, old man? You look so terrible well informed, when speaking about a generation, who's age you don't know. Get off my lawn!
If companies all switch to pay-to-listen and you haven nothing archived, you'll be at their mercy some day.
I steal music. And archive it. I just don't cry, that the worlds cheapest SSD won't hold all of it.
There are pros and cons to most technologies. You apparently know NONE of them to assume SSD is superior in every way that only "lunatics" would put them in a notebook. Frankly, your posts don't impress me in the slightest.
That makes us two. I never suggested that SSDs are superior in every possible way, only in all the important ways for making the decision which one should go in a notebook as a system volume. But you surely love your straw mens arguments. They are so easy to refute.
 

JohnnySchenker

macrumors newbie
Mar 13, 2014
1
0
Greece
Somewhat sad, but it really died in 2013 since Apple never bothered to update it with the new processors. I have a non-retina 15" and although the retinas make mine look old in comparison, I still like the convince of the old generation.

Ethernet port, diskdrive, headphone jack closer to the user....

Many of these legacy devices are rarely used, but when a situation occurs, it's nice to not need a $30 adapter to burn a $0.25 disk or use an $8 LAN cable.

That says it all...closer to the user...I can get used to not having a disk drive in the end, but there are some things that I really don't understand..
How much space does an Ethernet port occupy? HUGE detail (NO, we are not in the fully wi-fi era yet, and YES, I know I can have an adapter, but why should I have to use an adapter?)

Another very beautiful detail feature that passed away with the innovative Retina line is the battery indicator in the left side...so handy...

And finally, for god's sake, why would you have to transfer the designy power on button that was on the upper right end, and make it a button in the keyboard??

It's been 3 months now and I still haven't decided which to buy...RAM and drive capacity are not a matter to me since that whichever I will get, it will be maxed in these...if only Retinas had Ethernet in...and the details that I mentioned, I would write a very different post...
 

Yebubbleman

macrumors 603
May 20, 2010
5,832
2,421
Los Angeles, CA
Wow, DigiTimes really is useless. File this one under no-brainer.

The MacBook Pro transition to the body style present in the retina display models is nearing completion. The 13" MacBook Pro, being Apple's most popular (and, therefore, most sensitive, from a marketing standpoint) needed more time in the oven before the torch could be properly passed to the 13" MacBook Pro with Retina. Now with the Late 2013 models, Apple is naturally at the point where they're cautious enough to leave the Mid 2012 13" non-retina model in the line-up but confident enough to do so without giving it Haswell, 802.11ac, or Thunderbolt 2. They only have one model (with all of the options from June 2012 preserved as CTO options). It's a pretty safe assumption that come Broadwell and/or the next refresh, this sucker's gone. Safe enough that anyone on here could've and probably did make it. Thank you DigiTimes!

That all being said, while I'll agree that FireWire 800 is totally phased out at this point; there's no joy in having to buy a $40 Thunderbolt to FireWire 800 adapter. Similarly, while Apple has ditched the Blu-Ray train and while standard definition video offered by DVDs is a joke on a retina display, software installation is substantially more convenient on media than it is to download (especially titles that are over 2.5GB in size. But this is an argument that has diminished substantially since the first retina MacBook Pro was released in June 2012.

Not having a form of built-in Ethernet REALLY sucks at the office and at places where WiFi isn't great. And yes, those places do exist and yes, not every office has WiFi. I know, total shocker right? Unbelievable, right? The things you learn after realizing that not everyone lives in the bubble you do.

Where it really hurts is lack of expansion and upgradability. For those of you praising this, you must either (a) have a lot of money or (b) not do much with your computer. For people buying the Late 2013 13" MacBook Pro with retina, if you don't max out your RAM, you can easily be stuck with 4GB or 8GB, which might be fine today, but will definitely impact you down the road. Even for the current 15" MacBook Pro with retina, you might be fine today with 8GB and/or want to save that money; but you can't upgrade it later when it'd really help you out. That blows. The lack of a standardized SSD form factor is a pretty crappy deal; albeit there wasn't one for PCIe based SSDs at the time that the Late 2013 retina MacBook Pros came out, but there certainly is one now. This is similar to their practice with mSATA drives. Luckily, unlike crap like the Asus Zenbook, you do have aftermarket drive manufacturers like OWC and now Transcend (though the latter maker has yet to introduce PCIe drives), but still; this is an unstandard form-factor and as a result the cost of aftermarket upgrades is ungodly. None of you who are down with this can contest that, I'm sorry. Similarly, non-standard screw-types? Way to piss off the people who actually want to augment their computer, Apple.

Lastly the battery being glued to the unibody is lame; but given that it was never considered by Apple to be a user-replacable part, there's little difference to most consumers. It is hell for technicians, but few of you really care about the poor guy that actually has to repair your computer at the genius bars and AASPs. Yes, that display is awesome and it'll be great when more content/apps support it natively. And yes, PCIe SSDs are wonderful things. In all other areas, this new body style is a downgrade.
 

Cubytus

macrumors 65816
Mar 2, 2007
1,436
18
true, but I know some people that just live on a single laptop. 128GB flash isn't going to cut it. and 4GB of non-upgradable ram is just going to kill the product very soon.
I guess Apple developed the RAM-compression algorithm precisely knowing their next models won't be upgradeable. To my knowledge it's the only OS to use it. But clearly 128GB isn't enough. I have a 120GB HDD on my other Mac, which is pretty much void of documents and only have a few apps, yet more than half of it is already used.

Well, in that case you better stock up with the non-Retinas before they are all gone. :D
I knew I would regret my decision not to get the antiglare late-2011 15" MBP while I could do it. I just didn't see the need for it back in early 2012 :( I would exchange it if I could.

But for $100 less, that thing apparently still sells to a dwindling number of those who like the 500 Gigs of storage and those who must have the built-in SuperDrive. Fwiw, it does have a couple of extra legacy ports as well.
I don't know who wouldn't be happy to have 500GB of internal storage. Because going external means just another peripheral to power, drawing battery life, making the machine not as portable as it claims to be

I must be one of the legally blind. Having such high resolutions on a TINY TINY 13" screen just doesn't impress me in the slightest, especially when the only thing Apple does for 90% of the time is pretty much scan-double everything, which only gets you slightly smoother edges and is hard to see any difference just doubling the size on tiny tiny 13" screens.
I thought 13" was too small before meeting a Mac. However, with Spaces, it's quite acceptable.

I wanted larger screens, not smaller ones and Retina seems to be all about tiny tiny screens (iPhones, iPads and 13-15" notebooks). Perhaps that's because larger monitors have had higher resolutions for YEARS now and you can actually make good use of it there. It's like people watching HDTV on a 7" pad and thinking they're in a movie theater. Sorry, I haven't been to a movie theater where I sit 12 inches from a 13" screen. That's hardly IMAX.
I get your point about larger screens, but they always come with a trade-off in weight penalty (although the 15" was light compared to PC standard of the day, it is still heavier by 500g than the contemporary 13", even more if you count the power adapter.) and shorter battery life. I guess many people wanted a machine that would be more portable but still powerful. We seem to be a dwindling species that use (plz correct grammar if necessary) laptops to perform actual work for long hours, not as a toy for playing around at home.

No, that's too darn big, apparently.
I guess if you live up to your pseudonym and are a 1m95 strongly built man, then 17" isn't too big. But it may take a toll on other's back hauling it daily, especially on foot.

Frankly, I'd rather see better GPUs in Macs than useless higher resolutions that drag the crappy GPU to its overheating point.
Can't disagree with you here. I always felt ashamed for Apple for not including at least a powerful mobile GPU in its 13" "Pro" line, acknowledging there may not be enough room for a dual-GPU setup as the 15".

I can take out the ODD when discs finally become obsolete, just to save weight or add another drive at some point in the future.
Even if you think of ODD as obsolete, they're clearly not, considering the wide array of DVDs (and sometimes BluRay) available for loan in any library. There's no digital equivalent of this yet.
And it's still got a Kensington lock hole, which the new ones don't have.
Question, how are you supposed to secure your MBP to a desk when your job requires you either share the space with someone else, or is in a passing area?

Storage, who cares about internal storage? For 100$ you have your 2TB external WD for all your porn. 250GB is sufficient storge nowdays for 99% of the users.
No it's not. We do store other content than porn that still requires large storage, first because porn is best when it's fresh. Movies and music are an example of a content that need vast amounts of local storage (OK, maybe not music if we consider legitimate to pay Apple a yearly fee to keep our collection online). And you underestimate the size of the "Library" folder inside your home folder, probably because it's hidden by default since Lion.

I prefer cheaper stock MBP, than paying for extra storage I can get elsewhere much cheaper if I need it.
You can't easily upgrade the internal storage of a rMBP. Big SSDs aren't cheap by any means. I prefer a MBP that lives up to its "Pro" moniker. For the thin & light crowd that uses it for Facebook and light duties, there's the "Air" lineup.

With all availabe cloud storage services and cheap external memeries spending resource on increasing you internal SSD which you may or may not need, is complete waste of money, especially considering that its still too expensive.
Cloud storage has many problems.
1- It's slow. Dog slow. Especially on a coffee shop connection commonly capped to a reasonably high speed, but still significantly slower than your home connection.
2- Internet access is not pervasive yet in many cities / countries
3- Internet access is often capped down in North America to ridiculously low amounts.
4- Data isn't under your control. It's no longer private. If they close down their service, you're screwed if you haven't made any local backup.
5- You typically have to pay a yearly fee for a significant storage space.
6- Most cloud storage services don't provide an amount of storage even remotely comparable to a decent external HDD, side from hubiC with its 1TB plans.

More stock ram memory, cooler chasies, higer clock CPU and better GPU and display is what metters.
Yeah, we just needed yet another powerful machine crippled by the "all-cloud" craze. Think Chromebook. :rolleyes:

I don't consider my desire for a built in optical drive to be an old fogy thing. My two daughters, both in their 20's, both bought non-retina MBs this past year specifically because they have built in optical drives. I'm quite irritated that I had to go buy an external optical drive for my new iMac. Why? So it can be thinner?

Apple made the correct call when they got rid of floppy drives in the 90's. They got it wrong this time. Or at least it was wrong to remove the option. My daughters are happy they have computers with built in drives. I'm unhappy I don't.
Agreed, see above. Optical discs are still commonly available from libraries, both CDs and DVDs, free of charge, even as actual videoclubs are closing.

Diskettes were already too small to be useful in the late 90's, and not used for anything else than data. UDF-formatted CDRW were the new kid on the block and allowed for diskette-like cheap storage.

Can get an external drive not really a big deal. The less moving parts inside of my machine the better.
Sure, how are you about added power draw? :rolleyes:

Not having a form of built-in Ethernet REALLY sucks at the office and at places where WiFi isn't great. And yes, those places do exist and yes, not every office has WiFi. I know, total shocker right? Unbelievable, right? The things you learn after realizing that not everyone lives in the bubble you do.

Where it really hurts is lack of expansion and upgradability. For those of you praising this, you must either (a) have a lot of money or (b) not do much with your computer.
I'd lean for the b option. I would be ready to bet most Air and Retina buyers, especially the smaller sizes, do not do much more than browsing the Web, writing emails or typing texts, and treat these computers as status symbol, yet disposable machines. And it's not limited to Mac computers, but most electronics, cars, even relationships; if it breaks, let's just get another one, especially when it's too expensive to repair. Many don't think about repairability.

For people buying the Late 2013 13" MacBook Pro with retina, if you don't max out your RAM, you can easily be stuck with 4GB or 8GB, which might be fine today, but will definitely impact you down the road. Even for the current 15" MacBook Pro with retina, you might be fine today with 8GB and/or want to save that money; but you can't upgrade it later when it'd really help you out. That blows. The lack of a standardized SSD form factor is a pretty crappy deal; albeit there wasn't one for PCIe based SSDs at the time that the Late 2013 retina MacBook Pros came out, but there certainly is one now. This is similar to their practice with mSATA drives. Luckily, unlike crap like the Asus Zenbook, you do have aftermarket drive manufacturers like OWC and now Transcend (though the latter maker has yet to introduce PCIe drives), but still; this is an unstandard form-factor and as a result the cost of aftermarket upgrades is ungodly. None of you who are down with this can contest that, I'm sorry. Similarly, non-standard screw-types? Way to piss off the people who actually want to augment their computer, Apple.

Lastly the battery being glued to the unibody is lame; but given that it was never considered by Apple to be a user-replacable part, there's little difference to most consumers. It is hell for technicians, but few of you really care about the poor guy that actually has to repair your computer at the genius bars and AASPs. Yes, that display is awesome and it'll be great when more content/apps support it natively. And yes, PCIe SSDs are wonderful things. In all other areas, this new body style is a downgrade.
Thanks-
 

DoNoHarm

macrumors 65816
Oct 8, 2008
1,138
46
Maine
I think something that's been missed on this thread so far is the hit consumers will take in terms of resale cost. I can still sell my low end 15" 2009 MBP for 600-800 dollars. I can also sell my SSD for 200. I do not think a low end 15" rMBP will command such a high resale value in five years due to the non upgradable components....
 

s2mikey

Suspended
Sep 23, 2013
2,490
4,255
Upstate, NY
Seems fair enough, an all-Retina line up sounds good. After having a Retina screen for a while, the resolution on the non-Retina's looks horrible.

Yeah, that really is the deal. That's why the Mac book Air just wasn't going to work for me. Ended up with an rMBP and it's wonderful.
 

Steve121178

macrumors 603
Apr 13, 2010
6,434
7,103
Bedfordshire, UK
I think something that's been missed on this thread so far is the hit consumers will take in terms of resale cost. I can still sell my low end 15" 2009 MBP for 600-800 dollars. I can also sell my SSD for 200. I do not think a low end 15" rMBP will command such a high resale value in five years due to the non upgradable components....

Who cares? You don't buy a computer as a long term investment.
 

Steve121178

macrumors 603
Apr 13, 2010
6,434
7,103
Bedfordshire, UK
A lot of people care about resale value since it affects their ability to upgrade. Now as to why anyone would care what you think, I'm truly baffled.

I don't think Apple or anyone else is concerned about the resale costs. If buying a MacBook is such a risky major financial commitment for some people then don't buy it. Pick up a second hand one instead.

A computer is a work tool, it's their to do a job for you & nothing more. You can never ever guarantee how much it's going to be worth in 3 years time.
 

MagnusVonMagnum

macrumors 603
Jun 18, 2007
5,193
1,442
I don't think Apple or anyone else is concerned about the resale costs.

I think you're wrong, plain and simple. Apple has a reputation for high resale costs and many fans of Macs talk about this all the time. It seems naive to think Apple is unaware of this or that their reputation doesn't matter to them in a given regard.

If buying a MacBook is such a risky major financial commitment for some people then don't buy it. Pick up a second hand one instead.

It has nothing to do with risk.

A computer is a work tool, it's their to do a job for you & nothing more. You can never ever guarantee how much it's going to be worth in 3 years time.

It has nothing to do with guarantees. Look around. There are more fanatical users on Apple computers than ANY other system. Do you think these fanatics (some say "fan boys" on here) consider their Macs to be just "work tools?" Love is no too strong a word to convey how some people feel about Apple or their computers they bought from them. Now you and I may consider that ridiculous behavior, but I, at least am no oblivious to the emotional attachments these people have for their computers. I've felt it more for my Commodore 64 and Amigas growing up, being at an age where it felt "important" to have a neat computer. I'm sure the feeling had more to do with the users groups I went to, the games I played with friends and family, etc., but that doesn't change the fact that people think of their computers as more than just "work tools."

I can only assume that your "who cares" attitude comes strictly from that point of view. The thing is the rest of the world doesn't always think exactly like you. That's OK. Just ignore it. But what's the point in demeaning someone's comments on here that clearly DOES CARE about resale value? Whatever their reason may be, they clearly DO care and your post did nothing but dismiss their feelings like they don't matter. I'm simply tired of the callousness of the human race towards other members of it.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.